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Thread: C-180J extended Cargo, Is that piece half-way up Structural?

  1. #1
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    C-180J extended Cargo, Is that piece half-way up Structural?

    So I was wedged into the rear cargo bay of the 1976 C-180J. While I was stuck in there, I noted that the little metal athwart-ship piece of thin metal, that holds down the aft headliner, is only held on with a couple rivets on each end.

    I would love to drill out those rivets and wrap my head-liner around the upper frame work, and then just use a big cargo net over the opening.

    My IA, does not know if it counts as structural. It would certainly make the aft cargo area easier to access.
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Remove it. Common mod


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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Log book entry, or nothing since it is part of the headliner anchoring system? I still gotta prove to to my IA. I asked 3 IAs in Homer and nobody knew....
    I hate crawling back in there... I was tempting just to drill the rivets while I was in there....

  4. #4
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I wish I had the time and money to get rid of the tall floor as well, ( since my battery is on the firewall ) ... Makes me wonder why they did not just use a battery box and make the floor lower in the rest of that aft section....

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    If you load there on the thin metal raised deck what's: the CG excursion and useable weight capacity? Twenty some years in a C-185 and all I put there were the winter covers. Next time belly pod.

    Gary

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    50 pounds, from station 110 to 130. As it is now.

    Some of the STC's for the lower floor go to 80 pounds back there...

  7. #7
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I removed mine. It is clearly not a structural member.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    C-180J extended Cargo, Is that piece half-way up Structural?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Makes me wonder why they did not just use a battery box and make the floor lower in the rest of that aft section....
    Because the elevator and rudder cables run through that space and rise toward the back. The floor is raised in order to maintain level. To lower the baggage requires rerouting cables. The mid cross brace is there to fill space above the lower insert that held the third row seat back cushions. My cross piece is long gone with the third row seat.

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    Last edited by stewartb; 03-26-2019 at 07:37 AM.

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    And by the way, the area where the battery box was under the baggage floor is a great place to mount the 406 ELT since the factory mount doesn't meet current ELT installation requirements.

  10. #10
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Normal mod is to add pulleys and lower cables and floor of extended baggage area since you move battery


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    The Airglas carbon fiber extended baggage STC is pretty slick/simple install without moving pulleys. The price isn't bad by airplane standard either.
    http://www.airglas.com/FixedWing/Pro...5/Default.aspx
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    I bought the Selkirk STC in order to be sure my PMI was happy. One of the steps in that STC specifies removing that cross piece. You don't have to do everything on the STC. I kept the 3rd row useable by stretching a cargo net across there tightly for a back rest when I wanted to use those seats. I never did bother with lowering the floor but it would make it easier to fit backpacks behind the second row seats. (The best mod I did on the 185 was replacing it with a 206)
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  13. #13

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    When I finished typing I saw eskimo77's post.... That looks like what I would do today!
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    Alex's J model baggage is already as big as what the Airglas offers for the early models. FWIW.

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    The Airglas baggage lowers the front of the baggage to be nearly even with the cabin floor.Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #16
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Stewart,
    I was thinking more along the lines of, Since it is possible to make it a flat floor with the cables down low, why not just do that in the first place??

    Since I am out of cash this spring, any more changes will have to wait. I only have the snap-on canvas cover on the rear of that compartment. Which is a killer trying to get the last couple snaps to set-in. If I do not use a net back aft, I may need to come up with something to keep my survival gear from breaking past the canvas.
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    Alex, instead of the canvas, you can try a piece of light plywood cut to shape and hold it in place against the frame with a bungee across horizontally. Works fine lasts long time....

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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo77 View Post
    The Airglas baggage lowers the front of the baggage to be nearly even with the cabin floor.Click image for larger version. 

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    So it slopes downhill? How do you keep things from sliding? I've seen baggage floors lowered but still flat. It wasn't worth the effort for my needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo77 View Post
    The Airglas baggage lowers the front of the baggage to be nearly even with the cabin floor.Click image for larger version. 

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    What are your interior panels?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    There is some slope in flying attitude, pretty much flat on the ground. The picture isn't my airplane, but it looks to be adhesive back closed cell foam.

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    The Airglass stuff comes with D rings that go in the back and front for a tie down/net to keep things in place. The big question is what too do with the old L channel supports on the side. Drill them out or trim them off. I spent most of a day grinding mine back so I did not have new line of rivets in my nice paint job. Just something to think about.
    DENNY

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    Getcha some of these. You can paint rivet heads and nobody will be able to tell. Like when you change out all the glass and drill out the factory ELT mount. BTDT!

    https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/ez-dabber-p-17790.aspx
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  23. #23

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    What I liked about the canvas was it would hold stuff from sliding back on the lower part, and I could unsnap the top couple of snaps and open it enough to lay long stuff (like unbroken fishing rods if you happen to be a fishing guide) on top of the lower (light and fluffy) gear in the back. That airglass lower front would help with the backpack issue and would also seem to be less work than tackling the moving of pulleys and changing cables, etc. My first year with the 185 I had the headliner-3rd row holder in place ( the part you want to remove) and it was a real pain. Much better with it out. My battery was in back so I didn't bother with the lower floor and I ran it 135 with no problems for a few years before going to the 206. So cut that part out and forget it, or buy the the cheapest STC that includes cutting it out if you don't want to concern your AI, or whatever.. but taking it out will make your plane more useful. That Airglass mod looks like the most gain for the least effort (and $1100 is nothing if you are serious) and you have no questions or discussions about legality with a current STC.

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    How many IAs out there would refuse to sign off an annual on a plane that was brought to them with that piece (I wouldn't call it a brace) removed? I see more Skywagons without it than with.
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    Absolutely remove it. Way better without, and who’s to say it was ever there?
    Before & after:
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  26. #26
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I need to find a nice net like that...
    I guess it is really a trim piece. since you can flex is around and see light around most of the connection. I gotta figure out if drilling the rivets or grinding off the heads will work easier. I should have never told my IA about it...
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  27. #27
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I need to find a nice net like that...
    I guess it is really a trim piece. since you can flex is around and see light around most of the connection. I gotta figure out if drilling the rivets or grinding off the heads will work easier. I should have never told my IA about it...
    atlee sells nets, but I think they have "fineline interiors" custom make them??? you air taxi? if not why do you need net?

    you need new IA from what you said in your PM..... I know one up here, he even removed that part you talked about in his 185..... decades ago, and on many others

  28. #28
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I need to find a nice net like that.....
    I heard about Mountain Wave Aviation cargo nets, they make a nice one intended for the extended baggage.
    Way overpriced IMHO at $350.
    I bought mine from Safaristraps.com -- 23.5 x 23.5", $61 + S&H.
    They make a huge variety of sizes.

    https://www.safaristraps.com/1-polyester-cargo-net-23-5-x-23-5/


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    Last edited by hotrod180; 03-28-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo77 View Post
    The Airglas carbon fiber extended baggage STC is pretty slick/simple install without moving pulleys. The price isn't bad by airplane standard either.
    http://www.airglas.com/FixedWing/Pro...5/Default.aspx

    My 53 has a flat-floor extended baggage,
    field approved, before anyone offered a flat-floor STC'd version (I think).
    Looks about like Eskimo's photo in post #15.
    No extra pulleys, no re-routing cables.
    The slope of the floor doesn't seem to cause a problem. Cargo net keeps stuff from sliding in any event.

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    Last edited by hotrod180; 03-28-2019 at 02:05 PM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  30. #30
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    When who-ever moved the battery to the firewall, they did not cut out the battery box mounts in mine. Plus they left the strobe generator back there as well. My cables come in pretty high... ( seaplane centering system) ... More projects for the future when I have more cash in hand. I am selling rifles and pistols in an attempt to buy a Garmin 796.
    Wireweanie is making me a wire harness for my use Becker radio...
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    That battery shelf looks like a good spot for an ELT mount.

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Or that big mounting plate for the old glide-slope box over on the Starboard side.
    So is my current 406 ELT location up on the old ELT mount now out-dated.....??
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Not as long as it's stiff enough. The manual will give you the specs.

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  34. #34
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Stewert B made a comment earlier about the ELT mounts....

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    HOTROD 180: Got a call into Safari Straps to see if they can use a $10 US mail shipping instead of 50 or 60 bucks for Fed Ex.

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Seems like a lot of vendors dont know shipping between Alaska & the lower 48 dont seem to know about usps flat rate boxes.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  37. #37
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    Net on order. Will only come via FED-EX. The company claims that they were experiencing too much loss by using the US Postal System. I guess they never had Fed_Ex toss your box into a snow bank.
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  38. #38
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    New light weight floor mat is taking shape. It does not lay down like the old heavy rubber diamond tread mat.
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  39. #39
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Almost out of time and money. BUT I made some improvements.
    AFTER AND BEFORE.
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