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Thread: Darn C-180 insurance just jumped up

  1. #41
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    BT??

    Quote Originally Posted by 180_jeff View Post
    Lengthy thread on this topic on BT, with others echoing this experience. I thought that casualty insurance used to run at rates from 1% to 1.5%. For me, when it starts exceeding 1.5% it is time to consider self-insurance.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  2. #42
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Hot-Rod, who are you using?
    I was told that mine would be less if I was not on floats. Odd since floats seem much more safe than tail-wheel to me...
    Alex,

    I was told by a broker once that with floats, recovery is typically more expensive after an oops, and the plane has often been submerged, so avionics, electrics, Engine, etc May have to be replaced or overhauled.

    On wheels losses tend to be less for a given accident.

    And, don’t estimate the vast pool of talent out there. Lots of 90 minute wonders out there educated by Browns.

    MTV
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    BT??
    Thanks Eddie. I wondered the same thing last night then I got to thinking.....maybe there’s a new group of wagon owners out there and “BT” is just short for “BTLGQ”? I saw one of their stickers on a cub at OSH last year. Maybe you got by their booth?
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  4. #44
    gdafoe's Avatar
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    BT BeachTalk Forum Beechtalk.com
    Gerald

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by gdafoe View Post
    BT BeachTalk Forum Beechtalk.com
    Thanks! My bad
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  6. #46

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    I expect a giant double whammy. My broker is already telling me that underwriters are actually refusing to insure folks over 75. Avemco tells me the premiums go up with age, but they have no age limits.

    On the hull - it may be just my perspective, but it seems tailwheel damage claims are way up. We had one hit a “frangible” sign in what should have been an “inspect and go fly” groundloop. Totaled the aircraft. Also - aviation is a lot less affordable now, so older pilots are our students. Older pilots do not absorb the necessary motor skills as quickly. One of my older students almost totaled a Cub in a ground loop. That is actually difficult to do! We are restoring it. His insurance is paying.

    I am with MTV - my J3s go without hull. I have saved enough in premiums to buy plenty of Cubs.
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  7. #47
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Details? I understand Alaska is expensive. I live in Florida.
    160,000 hull,business and pleasure,off airport,wheels,skis,floats,amphib floats. A rider for commercial fish surveys. This is for a cub.
    Had this policy for years.price never changed with increased hull when amphibs were added three years ago.
    Broker said ins up 50 to 100 percent in ak.
    Need any other info Eddie.
    I will miss my insurance
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
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  8. #48

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    Interesting situation, Mark. I'd guess the fish spotting is the driver for the price hike? Insurance is a business expense. No airplane, no income. Tough decision.
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  9. #49
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Fish spotting or wildlife surveys are a big red flag for insurance companies. Ouch!

    MTV
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  10. #50

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    After getting my Cub, Ranch, Car(s) and Business renewals in the last couple of months, I think it is a fair statement that ALL insurance is up and don't even go to health insurance WOW!
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  11. #51

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    I can understand the health insurance. My spouse is in pretty good shape, but recently had cataract surgery. Takes about an hour -no overnight stay. Round numbers $3000 for the surgeon (a good guy; worth it), $24000 for the lens and hospital facilities, and $1200 for anesthesia (also a good guy and fellow pilot).

    So under $30 grand per eye. This doesn’t happen to everybody of course (good thing) but that huge sum for two or three hours of team effort has to be paid for some way. In our case, you paid for it - our medicine is socialized - but if we were younger, it would be paid by an insurance company, with added fees for their work, including those CEOs that get tens of millions in compensation per year.

    So yeah - I can see giant jumps in health insurance premiums.

  12. #52

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    You could sell insure......
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    it would be paid by an insurance company, ........., including those CEOs that get tens of millions in compensation per year.

    So yeah - I can see giant jumps in health insurance premiums.
    This alone is where the lion's share of the premiums go. You would think that they could get along just fine on only $1,000,000 per year. Imagine how much medical care (and other insurance paid items) could be accomplished if these CEOs pushed back from the table a bit sooner.
    N1PA

  14. #54

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    You guys made me check. I was told there will be no price increase when my policy renews in June.
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  15. #55
    fwSAR's Avatar
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    Only a couple of posts have included hard numbers on the annual premium (~$2000 on up), would any of you be willing to share your annual premium plus hours/ratings or is that too personal? As someone interested in stepping up into a 180 in the near future (family grew), that’s one expense that I only have a real fuzzy idea for...

  16. #56
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  17. #57
    windy's Avatar
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    My insurance price from last year to this year stayed the same. But I fly a PA-12, not a C-180.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
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  18. #58
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fwSAR View Post
    Only a couple of posts have included hard numbers on the annual premium (~$2000 on up), would any of you be willing to share your annual premium plus hours/ratings or is that too personal? As someone interested in stepping up into a 180 in the near future (family grew), that’s one expense that I only have a real fuzzy idea for...
    Me: private pilot, no advanced ratings, 3000+ hours, 3000 hrs tailwheel, 500 hours C180,
    airplane: 1953 C180, full coverage, $70K hull, $1,135/year, insured by AIG through BWI
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  19. #59
    fwSAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Me: private pilot, no advanced ratings, 3000+ hours, 3000 hrs tailwheel, 500 hours C180,
    airplane: 1953 C180, full coverage, $70K hull, $1,135/year, insured by AIG through BWI
    Wow... apparently thousands of hours of tailwheel makes a difference!

    Thanks guys. I appreciate the context... military flying can bestow hours and ratings, but sadly not tailwheel experience (besides the fact that it's a heck of a lot different from GA flying). Recently sold a Grumman, which was a blast to fly, but has the third wheel on the front, and not enough room for the family anymore.

  20. #60
    Paul Jackson's Avatar
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    My 65' 180 on wheels and floats came in at $2350 with same limits as Eddie's. Lots of TT and in type.
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  21. #61

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    I am a new pilot. Had my PP and tail wheel for about two years. Have 176 hours and 123 of that in my PA-12 (wheels with a little bit of skis). Insured through AOPA for a little less than $3k. Now I am putting it on floats. Need 15 hours instruction and rating. Plane is ~$103k hull. Rate I was quoted is $6,500. I get I am low hours and live in Alaska, but wow floats is expensive. Same insurance limits as above $1mm/$100k/$5k. Figure learning floats in my own plane probably a really good idea to be fully insured. What is that saying, “ if it floats, f&@$, or flies...”
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  22. #62
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-12 on Baumanns View Post
    I am a new pilot. Had my PP and tail wheel for about two years. Have 176 hours and 123 of that in my PA-12 (wheels with a little bit of skis). Insured through AOPA for a little less than $3k. Now I am putting it on floats. Need 15 hours instruction and rating. Plane is ~$103k hull. Rate I was quoted is $6,500. I get I am low hours and live in Alaska, but wow floats is expensive. Same insurance limits as above $1mm/$100k/$5k. Figure learning floats in my own plane probably a really good idea to be fully insured. What is that saying, “ if it floats, f&@$, or flies...”
    Insurance on seaplanes has always been expensive in Alaska. You might talk to one of the outfits that kind of specializes in seaplanes. Falcon used to have best rates, but it’s been a while since I shopped that market. In the almost 30 years I owned seaplanes in Alaska, I never had hull coverage. Planes were paid for and if I screwed up.....

    Best thing you can do is get a THOROUGH SES rating, not a “quicky”. Tell your instructor you want to learn to fly floats, NOT just get a few extra letters on your plastic cert.

    MTV
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  23. #63
    fwSAR's Avatar
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    I did my SES training at Twitchell's in Maine several years ago. Got a few hours on the water since then with a friend up in Kodiak, but not as much as I'd like... I was hoping to get back over to Twitchell's this summer to do some more flying and keep learning now that I'm back generally in the Northeast, but hopefully this COVID business doesn't screw the whole summer. Although I understand the business has changed hands over there and while they no longer have their own planes, there are still a couple of guys doing some instruction in their own aircraft.

    If anyone is looking for an excuse to explore some of the many lakes of Nova Scotia once the borders open back up, let me know if you'd like someone to share expenses!

  24. #64
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    PA-12 on Baumanns:
    I do not know if you have a Float CFI picked out yet. But that is what I do down in Homer, although I have traveled to other parts of the state.
    Doing your rating in your plane is not only less expensive, it also helps build your hours in that airframe. Places like Falcon, Bill White or others will let you do ( added-insured ) for nothing when you find an old gray-hair high time CFI. The you later remove the CFI from your policy once you have the hours and ratings they want you to have. Places like AVEMCO let you pay quarterly, and they will adjust your rates as you add experiences. A few years back I made up a mountain flying course that made AVEMCO happy and we managed to drop 5% off the policy bills for a few pilots.

    Alex
    dragonflyaero.com

  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    You guys made me check. I was told there will be no price increase when my policy renews in June.
    I was just told by BWI this week that our Alaska policy through USAIG for the 180J on wheels and skis was going from $2,625 to $4,675 with $1,000/$2,500 deductibles for $185,000 hull value and with $1,000,000/$100,000/$5,000 liability limits.

    The lower 48 policy through BWI went from that $2,625 to $2,847 with no deductibles from Global Aerospace.

    I called AVEMCO and they were at about $4,800 for lower 48, with visits to AK up to 30 days; about $6800 for a dedicated AK policy.

    That's with about 1,800 hours, commercial and instrument, over thousand in type and about 300 hours Alaska time and a bunch back in the sticks of Idaho. Never a claim, annual flight reviews, instrument checks every 6 months, FAA Wings program, etc.

    I've considered removing the hull insurance and just keeping the liability.

    Hopefully things will calm down next year.

    EDIT: I had written that we jumped in hull value, but in fact we remain at the same hull value for this 2020 insurance cycle as for 2019.
    Last edited by JohnnyR; 07-30-2020 at 10:01 AM. Reason: "Just the facts, ma'am..."
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  26. #66

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    My last post was February. I insure a Decathlon for 52K hull and standard liability. I turned 79 in June.

    My agent has done a good job over the last decade - $600 less than Avemco for the Dec and the Cub. This year the Dec jumped by 78% (not quite double). I have 22,000 accident, violation, and claim-free hours. My agent said he could not guarantee that I would not be again hit with an age-related increase next year.

    Avemco gave me a quote $300 less, and stated that there would be an age-related boost in two years - of nine percent.

    Who knows what is next. I too am thinking liability only. I can afford to lose a hull.

    Seventy eight percent! That was early July, or maybe late June. Ouch?

  27. #67

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    My insurance in a ’53 A model Cub jumped about 1/3 this year almost to 3k. I’m 50, just under 15K total time with about 1500 in tailwheel.

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