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Trick air skis

Yarddart

Registered User
TrickAir skis In Cruise ski front right tip pull down due to bungee stretch affected trim be careful fortunately the cable Caught it any questions call Steve at 630-816-8825
 
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Attlee Dodge silver springs Is what I put on my trick air skis .
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You may have to rig them up a few more degrees. Mine was 1 deg up or so and I lengthened the rear cable 2 inches and they don’t drop down anymore


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I'd contact the current manufacturer and have a conversation about the in-air drop down. It might help them and others figure out an improved rigging setup and test flight after the installation. Sometimes that test after mod is required to determine compatibility but not sure with this STC.

Gary
 
Newer bungee material sucks compared to what they used to make. I learned that if I left mine hooked up sitting in the hangar even over night they were very slow to return to their original rigged length. Get some heavy snow on the tip and it took ever longer. Add the 6" crust cutter and its even worse because bungee is then shorter. I started unhooking them at the end of the day 20 years ago. 2 years ago I finally switched to springs.

Glenn
 
Thinking about buying a set of the TrickAir 2500s for my Super Cub, and I’m curious how they perform? I’ve flown SkyWagons on penetration skis and some are okay and some were horrible.
 
My 1500's are not as good as straight skis in the deep snow (understandably) and are poor in overflow conditions....it is very nice to land on a runway and up to the pump though....also it is nice going into and out of the hangar. there is a definite trade off in snow performance....I think the area behind the wheel causes most of the drag....Summit skis seem to have a more straight profile behind the wheel making them a little less draggy in the snow.
 
TrickAir skis In Cruise ski front right tip pull down due to bungee stretch affected trim be careful fortunately the cable Caught it any questions call Steve at 630-816-8825

bungee was seven years old new bungee no problems great support from company
 
My skis with springs would drop if you got over 110 mph. Lengthened the rear cable and solved that problem


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These skis look like they are rigged with the tips low in level flight, poor bungee didn't have a chance.

Glenn

That's what I thought as well. The lower connection for the bungee should also have a section of cable for a "crust cutter", to protect the bungee.
 
Isn't the lower left side window/longeron one of the levels? If so and the right rear safety cable is tight then......not criticism just a maybe could be better.

Gary
 
Best way to check that in the hangar is put a smart level on the window frame and lift the tail til the cables are tight.


One place I read said 1-5 deg compared to the wings angle of incidence. I've always used fuselage level.
 
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Glen you are correct my new bungies are the same I disconnect after every use , going to springs next year for sure


Newer bungee material sucks compared to what they used to make. I learned that if I left mine hooked up sitting in the hangar even over night they were very slow to return to their original rigged length. Get some heavy snow on the tip and it took ever longer. Add the 6" crust cutter and its even worse because bungee is then shorter. I started unhooking them at the end of the day 20 years ago. 2 years ago I finally switched to springs.

Glenn
 
Best way to check that in the hangar is put a smart level on the window frame and lift the tail til the cables are tight.


One place I read said 1-5 deg compared to the wings angle of incidence. I've always used fuselage level.

I've also heard the 1-5 degree thing. When Aviat certificated skis on the Husky, they tried to get the FAA to approve 0 degrees, but the Denver ACO wouldn't approve, so they went with +1, and that worked great. I had the same experience with skis on that plane, when you descended, the skis would go over onto the forward limit cables. Was no big deal, just a bit of trim change. We took the bungees off and replaced with springs.....fixed.

As Glenn noted, the new bungees are WAAAAY different than old bungees, and frankly not worth the $$.

MTV
 
I've also heard the 1-5 degree thing. When Aviat certificated skis on the Husky, they tried to get the FAA to approve 0 degrees, but the Denver ACO wouldn't approve, so they went with +1, and that worked great. I had the same experience with skis on that plane, when you descended, the skis would go over onto the forward limit cables. Was no big deal, just a bit of trim change. We took the bungees off and replaced with springs.....fixed.

As Glenn noted, the new bungees are WAAAAY different than old bungees, and frankly not worth the $$.

MTV

The issue is the bungee is over its design limit when stretched out siting on the ground if it is cold enough it will not pull tight again.

I used a really long bungee ring with no crust cutter cable but a piece of fire hose to protect the bungee. The extra length fixes the problem.

You have to stay well bellow the 50% stretch limit for the bungee to work, so a 20 inch bungee should never be stretched out more than 10 inches that is the cold weather working limit, after that they will not retract with enough force.

By using a ring you need less tension to start with to maintain enough working tension throughout its range.

I am not a huge fan of the heavy springs either they work , but also seen many fail after a few years in service. Nothing is perfect.
 
Got a buddy that put Atlee Springs on his 2500 in 1995, he flys about 100 hrs every winter with F&G biologist and is still running them almost 30 years later. I would say that is reliable service especially knowing some of the spots he lands in. Since early 2000's like Glen suggested if you could get a few seasons out of modern bungee material you are lucky. I had some of the new cold weather stuff furnished with new Datum Skis that failed at -20 the second season. That is simply NOT acceptable for us. I have no idea what they have done to it but I have some 40 year old stuff I striped off a skis that I tryed last winter one day it was -20 and it still seamed fine, so this new stuff is garbage compared to what it used to be...... Having to unhook it after every flight is another BS deal. Just get some springs and put bungees in the rear view mirror.
E
 
My TrickAir skis are 7 years old with no bungee problem yet. I disconnect them after every flights. Should probably go to springs. Haven’t been on straight skis for 40 years so no way to compare performance but as I remember, straight skis performed a bit better in deep snow. Guys seem to love their Datums but one friend has had trouble with the actuators.

Jim
 
Got a buddy that put Atlee Springs on his 2500 in 1995, he flys about 100 hrs every winter with F&G biologist and is still running them almost 30 years later. I would say that is reliable service especially knowing some of the spots he lands in. Since early 2000's like Glen suggested if you could get a few seasons out of modern bungee material you are lucky. I had some of the new cold weather stuff furnished with new Datum Skis that failed at -20 the second season. That is simply NOT acceptable for us. I have no idea what they have done to it but I have some 40 year old stuff I striped off a skis that I tryed last winter one day it was -20 and it still seamed fine, so this new stuff is garbage compared to what it used to be...... Having to unhook it after every flight is another BS deal. Just get some springs and put bungees in the rear view mirror.
E

Nothings perfect but the guys that had springs fail and go through the prop might disagree with your take this happened mostly on 180/185 with the Fluedyne L shaped ski. Nevertheless they do brake occasionally that is why I run the check-cable inside the springs to catch the pieces before thy go in the prop when I run springs.
The big issue is no one looks at the working length of bungees or springs, that is why they fail. I used both Bungees and springs with good results.
 
I’ve never heard of a spring failing and getting into a prop. I have heard of old clamp-on gear leg ski fittings causing problems. Any references to accident reports? I’m especially interested in any that involve Skywagons on AirGlide skis.
 
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while you are guessing at the degrees proper rigging etc, the FAA has a handy document that shows proper rigging including the angles. might be eye opening too when you put a spring scale inline and pull the proper tension on the spring or bungee. Most stretch them out way more than needed.
 
Nothings perfect but the guys that had springs fail and go through the prop might disagree with your take this happened mostly on 180/185 with the Fluedyne L shaped ski. Nevertheless they do brake occasionally that is why I run the check-cable inside the springs to catch the pieces before thy go in the prop when I run springs.
The big issue is no one looks at the working length of bungees or springs, that is why they fail. I used both Bungees and springs with good results.

I totally agree that running the limit cables inside the springs is a good idea, but mostly just to keep them from flailing around. Personally, I've never heard of a ski spring breaking and going into a prop, which of course, doesn't mean it never happened, but if so, it certainly isn't very common. Anything can break, frankly, given enough talent and perseverance. I put some hours on 185s with springs installed on the Fluidyne retractable skis. Sorry excuse for skis, but never had a spring break in any case.

I saw a definite change in the ability to maintain elasticity in bungees somewhere in the eighties, or so. Before that, ski bungees seemed to last almost forever. Then, we needed to replace bungees every other season, and yes, the bungees were kept inside in storage when not installed. And, some of these were in warm hangars when not flown. The difference was very noticeable as well, not something subtle.

I never liked having ski limit cables attached to the gear leg for this reason. A bungee goes slack on you, that ski tip goes down, and there's a fine line between the limit cable being just long enough, and just a bit too long. I know, I know....that's why we hire mechanics. That said, staring at that angle with a ski tip down......

I like cables attached to the bottom engine mount on Cub type planes. The Cessnas, of course only attach one place.

MTV
'
 
I seem to recall something breaking on a ski on a 185 in Canada resulting in the fuselage breaking in half. The passengers sitting in the rear seat survived, the others did not. Was that a spring or a cable? Wrapped around the Prop?
 
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