Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Looking at an old plane

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like

    Looking at an old plane

    An old Cessna, its old panel vfr only, its cheap, the new parts it has on it are worth what I will give for it, if my mech gives it thumbs up. I dont know what some of this stuff on the panel is, its before my time. I am trying to out if that's a transponder under the old com nav on top? Another thing stumpin me is that square with 12 bumps, a brail placard.. LOL

  2. #2
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    425
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blurry but id say adf.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thought it might be a DME, they said it had a transponder but I do not see one.

    Found this https://www.ozpilot.com.au/bendix-king-kn-64-dme-ohc looks like a DME.
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-12-2019 at 02:45 AM.

  4. #4
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    What's the model number on the face? It's on the left end of the face plate.

    Also, I doubt your coms are legal (only 720 channels).

    On the plus side, install a CGR-30P, new avionics, and remove the vacuum system and you'll remove 40 lbs from the total weight.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  5. #5
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    425
    Post Thanks / Like
    Could very well be one of the dme's you put the vor freq into and gives the distance/time. Cant see very well. Id say that square thing is a fuse block.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  6. #6
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    There is and old school transponder mounted low. You can see the frequency window below the ADF dial, just to the right of the left hand yoke.

    Web
    Last edited by wireweinie; 02-12-2019 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Oops!
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ok, thanks. I saw that box below the ADF tuner, but thought that was a second nav the way the digits are, looks like 117.20, is that what I am seeing ? It is not a great picture, sorry, I did not take it, from add.
    Were the old transponders 5 digits with point after 3? more to google now LOL

  8. #8
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    2,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    No. You're right. My bad, but it's 11:15 pm, lol. It is a nav control. Do you have any pics of the lower panel area?

    Judging by the lack of buttons, I think that newer Bendix/King unit is a DME (maybe the KN-64?). But I'd still need the model number to verify.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
    Thanks supercub1999 thanked for this post
    Likes Tennessee liked this post

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,060
    Post Thanks / Like
    Old 310s are cheap to buy and expensive to maintain.
    N1PA
    Likes 180Marty, Charlie Longley liked this post

  10. #10
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West Boxford MA
    Posts
    870
    Post Thanks / Like
    KT-76C. This discussion make me glad I'm old, and I'm glad you asked. I even carry a backup paper chart of some kind. Even a road map. A Michelin road map took me all the way up and down through Nigeria. BTW 720 channel radios are perfectly legal - you may not go everywhere you want, but a lot of us turn the noise off so we can hear the engine.
    Last edited by WhiskeyMike; 02-12-2019 at 07:19 AM.
    Likes supercub1999, TurboBeaver liked this post

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Old 310s are cheap to buy and expensive to maintain.
    Thanks, and my ears are open, I have only made and offer of 20k conditionally if mech doesn't find any problems. Owner payed 23k for it two years ago and just wants what he has into it. Its a flying plane and you can see one reason it's cheap the original old panel. Got new props, new heater, new mags and harness both sides and gens swapped for alternators to. All that was put on from pilot he bought it from, he has flown a hundred hours on it and wants an IFR Barron now he says. He is willing to fly it 200 miles to my IA to have inspect it, that tells me he has faith in it. Engines rebuilt in the 90's but both below TBO, one 1300 and one 600 hours.Regarding old 310s, the bad things I have read about are the over wing exhaust corroding which can cause corrosion damage to the rear spar, and the gear needs rigged every annual. Haven't read much more about them, and going to have the IA check all this out. If there is corrosion on the spar from the over wing exhaust than I won't buy it, if none than I don't see how 20K can be too bad of a gamble.It's in annual and a flying plane, ADs are completed and new props don't have one... but I am still listening for advice to move forward or step back from this? Thanks and the full photo below, doesn't show much more of the panel.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20190212-152650.jpg 
Views:	230 
Size:	90.7 KB 
ID:	41461   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	watermark.jpg 
Views:	219 
Size:	157.0 KB 
ID:	41447  
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-12-2019 at 04:02 PM.
    Thanks flynlow thanked for this post
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Canyon, tx
    Posts
    366
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sounds like it’s cheap enough that if you can fly 150 hrs off it with just gas and oil, it won’t owe you anything. At that point, if it needs much, you park it by the dumpster. Are you building twin time or is this transportation? If it’s transportation, better buy something with a better panel
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Sounds like it’s cheap enough that if you can fly 150 hrs off it with just gas and oil, it won’t owe you anything. At that point, if it needs much, you park it by the dumpster. Are you building twin time or is this transportation? If it’s transportation, better buy something with a better panel
    Thanks, and short vfr trips, fun flying, a trip to Oshkosh maybe with dad. The Cub is way too slow to go anywhere like that more than 100 miles away. Been looking for a single that does 150 knots, but found this, I figure if I get 100 hours out of it and don't want to pay for overhaul engines than I can park it or get a little out of it. But than again maybe if it is a good plane rebuild the engines and upgrade it to IFR, if I like it, I think the B models look really cool.
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  14. #14
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    10,345
    Post Thanks / Like
    You will be STUNNED by what it would cost to significantly upgrade that panel, let alone panel and engines......

    I'd say you're considering buying a money pit. Even if it checks out, sorta, it's likely to nickel and dime you to death.

    MTV
    Thanks supercub1999, FdxLou thanked for this post

  15. #15
    Cub junkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    My Moms basement
    Posts
    2,044
    Post Thanks / Like
    Get it cheap and fly it just like it is. A nice hand held GPS is all you need in there. When the airplane needs major maintenance part it out. Unfortunately most old twins are in the part it out category.
    Thanks supercub1999 thanked for this post
    Likes Hardtailjohn, skywagon8a liked this post

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks.
    I am concerned about the moneypit possibility, hoping the IA will give me a good call there, and yes flying it just the way it is would be the plan, also has a garmin 696 comes with it so navigation vfr will be covered. Thanks for all the input.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Circle Pines MN, north of St Paul
    Posts
    88
    Post Thanks / Like
    King KN 64 DME.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	kn-64_front_.jpg 
Views:	107 
Size:	52.8 KB 
ID:	41449

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Really good reason that light twins are cheaper than J-3s. Unless you are building twin time for a future job, spend the extra bucks for a Mooney. Opinion.

  19. #19
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    425
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Thanks.
    I am concerned about the moneypit possibility, hoping the IA will give me a good call there, and yes flying it just the way it is would be the plan, also has a garmin 696 comes with it so navigation vfr will be covered. Thanks for all the input.
    If it flys or floats, its a money pit!
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Corcoran MN
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    How much fuel does it carry? Maybe if the seller agrees to fill it up that would help with the value? If a buyer is willing to fly it only one year or before the next annual then it might be worth it. Otherwise the first annual might possibly be more than you paid for it.
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  21. #21
    supercub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Let me check my GPS, gee how'd we ever navigate with those sectional things?
    Posts
    762
    Post Thanks / Like
    Top Radio is I believe an old KX 170, below it, I believe is a King DME, below that is an audio panel with marker beacons, next is a com unit, the braille looking thing I have no idea, I'm guessing it's just a cover to hide the hole there. In the lower panel is an old ADF, and below it is a Nav unit to run one of the VOR heads. Hate to say this, but that all very old gear, and isn't worth anything, good boat anchor material........if some of it works, that's good, but if anything happens to any piece, more then likely you won't be able to find anyone to repair. I don't see a XPND, but could be out of the pic on the far right side of the panel, or to the left of the pilots yoke on the lower panel. 20K must seem like a good price, but you could spend that much and more easily on some repairs. Make sure you get a good pre purchase, have them check the spars behind the engines. 310's have been know to have spar corrosion from the exhaust. Like someone else said. Light twins in today's market are cheap, why? because they cost a ton to maintain. I know of a C-421 that just had both engines, firewall forward done.......bill was over $100,000, same thing on that older 310 would probably be $60k I guessing. Personally, unless I had a reserve of at least $50k I would be afraid to touch it. Oh ya, the instruements in it are old too, and just waiting to fail.
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  22. #22
    aktango58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    18AA
    Posts
    9,045
    Post Thanks / Like
    If you end up buying it and ever want a co-pilot for a long trip, let me know. I have been wanting to build my twin time, but keep getting stuck in float planes and such. Would love to buy you some fuel for a trip somewhere!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  23. #23
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Marion, MT
    Posts
    681
    Post Thanks / Like
    They're an awesome old plane!! That's what, about a '57? I maintained a couple of them and we got along just fine. Like said, look the rear spars over really well, and the nose gear likes to crack the keels on the side of the well. That's a pain in the butt job to fix, and is quite often from someone reefing too hard when towing by the nosewheel. Make sure who ever did the gear swing knows how to read the manual and follow it to the letter!!! I got one in that had the gear collapse as they pulled it out from their annual when it rolled across the door track! They had an "expert" that really knew more than the manual on how to set the gear up. We spent a bunch of money to fix that mess!
    I love the old buggers and they do travel well!! Enjoy it!!!
    John
    Likes supercub1999, FdxLou liked this post

  24. #24
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    10,345
    Post Thanks / Like
    As Web noted earlier, you will HAVE to replace at least one comm radio. Maybe find an older, but serviceable King radio that'll do all the channels.

    A distant relative and a friend bought one of these to build time to get hired by airlines. They flew the heck out of it for a year, then sold it, figuring they could afford to lose a little on the sale. Never looked back.

    MTV
    Likes supercub1999, Hardtailjohn liked this post

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    They're an awesome old plane!! That's what, about a '57? I maintained a couple of them and we got along just fine. Like said, look the rear spars over really well, and the nose gear likes to crack the keels on the side of the well. That's a pain in the butt job to fix, and is quite often from someone reefing too hard when towing by the nosewheel. Make sure who ever did the gear swing knows how to read the manual and follow it to the letter!!! I got one in that had the gear collapse as they pulled it out from their annual when it rolled across the door track! They had an "expert" that really knew more than the manual on how to set the gear up. We spent a bunch of money to fix that mess!
    I love the old buggers and they do travel well!! Enjoy it!!!
    John
    Thanks, yes a 1957 310B, it sat for several years and 5 years ago it went through an extensive annual by a real pain in the ass mechanic, the words of the previous owner. I called him up as well as the pain in the ass mech and asked him what he remembered from the 3 annuals he did in 2013, 15 and 16, he told me he had the owner put new hartzell props on it, new mags and harness new plugs, rebuilt the nose gear, he made sure all the AD were done.. the first annual in 2013 he did a lot. So I am thinking it is still in descent shape. The current owner/seller is an airline pilot and said he has had fun with it over the past two years, flown it about 50 hours and now wants a baron IFR something he can fly approaches in.

    I talked to a 310 guru and he told me those over wing augmenter tubes slide out enough to get a bore scope into, might have to call him back, can you pull the tubes forward enough to get a scope in from the back? I have a non bendable scope with an articulating head camera with a bright led light. If the spars are clean not corroded and the engines give a good run up and it flys good than I think I will buy it, give my dad and I some happy times while he is still here with us, thats worth the 20k to me. Owner says it will do 170 knots, we can visit some places and have time to enjoy them. As far as the radios.. will stick to non tower fields and see and avoid.
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-13-2019 at 10:51 AM.
    Likes Hardtailjohn, 46 Cub liked this post

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    don
    Posts
    682
    Post Thanks / Like
    That old stuff probably works after 40 years. 10 years from now this new stuff will have smoked and be obsolete.
    Likes wireweinie, skywagon8a, Hardtailjohn liked this post

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Illinois & Wisconsin
    Posts
    595
    Post Thanks / Like
    You probably could part out the aircraft and make your $20 grand back even if you only get 5 hours on it before something expensive breaks.

    $20,000 isn’t much money nowadays. If you have a place to keep it, why not go for it? It might be a great investment.
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  28. #28
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    425
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    You probably could part out the aircraft and make your $20 grand back even if you only get 5 hours on it before something expensive breaks.

    $20,000 isn’t much money nowadays. If you have a place to keep it, why not go for it? It might be a great investment.
    I agree. There is also probably plenty of people around who would like some multi time or even someone to lease it to do mel training?
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  29. #29
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Marion, MT
    Posts
    681
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Thanks, yes a 1957 310B, it sat for several years and 5 years ago it went through an extensive annual by a real pain in the ass mechanic, the words of the previous owner. I called him up as well as the pain in the ass mech and asked him what he remembered from the 3 annuals he did in 2013, 15 and 16, he told me he had the owner put new hartzell props on it, new mags and harness new plugs, rebuilt the nose gear, he made sure all the AD were done.. the first annual in 2013 he did a lot. So I am thinking it is still in descent shape. The current owner/seller is an airline pilot and said he has had fun with it over the past two years, flown it about 50 hours and now wants a baron IFR something he can fly approaches in.

    I talked to a 310 guru and he told me those over wing augmenter tubes slide out enough to get a bore scope into, might have to call him back, can you pull the tubes forward enough to get a scope in from the back? I have a non bendable scope with an articulating head camera with a bright led light. If the spars are clean not corroded and the engines give a good run up and it flys good than I think I will buy it, give my dad and I some happy times while he is still here with us, thats worth the 20k to me. Owner says it will do 170 knots, we can visit some places and have time to enjoy them. As far as the radios.. will stick to non tower fields and see and avoid.
    Sounds like a good one, and it should be fun! I can't remember for positive about the tubes but it seems to me they did slide enough to peek. Good luck and have FUN!
    John

  30. #30
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    655
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Thanks, yes a 1957 310B, it sat for several years and 5 years ago it went through an extensive annual by a real pain in the ass mechanic, the words of the previous owner. I called him up as well as the pain in the ass mech and asked him what he remembered from the 3 annuals he did in 2013, 15 and 16, he told me he had the owner put new hartzell props on it, new mags and harness new plugs, rebuilt the nose gear, he made sure all the AD were done.. the first annual in 2013 he did a lot. So I am thinking it is still in descent shape. The current owner/seller is an airline pilot and said he has had fun with it over the past two years, flown it about 50 hours and now wants a baron IFR something he can fly approaches in.

    I talked to a 310 guru and he told me those over wing augmenter tubes slide out enough to get a bore scope into, might have to call him back, can you pull the tubes forward enough to get a scope in from the back? I have a non bendable scope with an articulating head camera with a bright led light. If the spars are clean not corroded and the engines give a good run up and it flys good than I think I will buy it, give my dad and I some happy times while he is still here with us, thats worth the 20k to me. Owner says it will do 170 knots, we can visit some places and have time to enjoy them. As far as the radios.. will stick to non tower fields and see and avoid.
    Sounds like a great old bird! They are certainly a nice x/c ride. Classy looking vintage "Sky King" twin.
    You could have a lotta fun with your Dad in that! Plus they do a "wicked buzz job"......... If the spars n gear are good your golden! Get a Airgizmo
    mount for the 696 ( yard some of that old junk out). Fly the heck out of it!

    Sent from my LM-X210 using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Likes RaisedByWolves liked this post

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like
    I had a '60 model with a partner, we were just time building and each put over 300 hours on that thing. I was the A&P and he was the instructor so a good arrangement. We had a similar panel so just used a handheld on the yoke, went all over the country and one trip up to Fairbanks and back. Once I hauled a jeep engine for my buddy so his dad could overhaul it, just slide it into the back! Both engines weeped oil, just kept a case in the baggage with ready supply of rags to wipe off the gear.
    We put an electronic ignition unit on the nose heater that worked really good. I couldn't imagine owning one if your not doing your own maintenance, you pretty much need to be on it constantly, said I'd never own anything that needed 24 plugs again.

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks, I do like the way the early strait tail 310 looks. I bought it, I am happy with paying 20 k for it, glad thats all it was.. the engines go through oil as fast as I drank beer.. almost, one burns it the other blows it out, but as long as I keep 7 quarts in it it runs like a champ. Flown two 1000 mile trips and she did great, FAST, I like seeing 200 mph groundspeed on the gps. Little bit hard to land smooth.. still figuring that one out. Its fun and looking forward to a more long trips in it. In for annual now and with my local IA, I dont see anything major wrong, going to do a couple mods to it, reroute the oil breather tubes out over the wing between the exhaust, a common mod that keeps the gear and flaps oil free, like this guy did to his '56 310 below

    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  33. #33

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    67
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not a bad price. They really are the ultimate cross country machine, I think we could get down to 18gph with power pulled way back and still do 150mph.
    Make sure those fuel selectors are snapped into the detents properly, the actual selector valves are out by the engines and a long shaft with some u-joints runs up to the selector levers on the floor in the cockpit. All that linkage gets sloppy, always turn the lever past the desired position until you feel it click in rather then just look at the levers position on the floor plate.
    Likes TurboBeaver, Hardtailjohn liked this post

  34. #34
    Cub junkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    My Moms basement
    Posts
    2,044
    Post Thanks / Like
    Supercub1999 I flew 310's quite a bit in the 80's hauling bank mail at night. On getting a smooth landing out of a 310 you kind of fly it on with the throttles coming to idle just as you touch the mains. Thats what worked for me. Somewhere I have a picture I took of mixed rime ice all over the airplane with about 6 inches stuck on the front of the tip tanks(not recommended) probably helped that I was young,dumb and unnecessarily brave. I think its great you are keeping a 310 in the game. So many of them are unloved sitting on tie downs with flat tires.
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  35. #35
    Flying_Fin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Medway, Maine
    Posts
    81
    Post Thanks / Like
    Have you ever noticed on the ATM drive through, there are BRAILLE instructions on it also? Flying blind is one thing.....
    Life is not a dress rehearsal, and is a fatal condition...make it count. It's a good landing if you can still open the doors.

Similar Threads

  1. Another plane down in AK
    By Den in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-16-2017, 10:47 PM
  2. Replies: 38
    Last Post: 02-19-2015, 09:37 AM
  3. Plane Name?
    By Warren Aircraft in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 12-13-2005, 09:01 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •