If so, what is involved?
Lots of experimental Cubs out there built with certified parts in places. It is easy to comply with the 51% rule if you build it up from the ground up in my opinion. Get the form and figure out ahead of time all the things you are going to get credit for and see where you fall in the percentage then figure out what else you might take on to get the percentage up to 51. Almost every experimental cub built is not built by the owner/builder using bare 4130 tubing, most people don't make there own ribs and all the other wing parts needed to construct a wing.
Where does it say you can’t use parts that were never certified? Like a wrecked piper fuselage?
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Do a search, lots of discussion of this in past.
MTV
You can use those parts, but you can’t take any credit towards the major portion. If you use the Piper fuselage as in your example, FAA looks at any work done on that fuselage as Part 43 maintenance, not building the new airplane.
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Could you use univair pma’d parts to count towards the 51%? If you were to buy new parts from univair and build the wings?
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At that point the DAR visits to look the plane and paperwork over. They'd have no way of telling whose airframe or wings were used and I doubt they care as long as the 51% worksheet is believable and the math works.
The question, as I understood it, was can you take an existing standard category airplane and make it experimental. No mention of building (or even repairing). The answer is "yes", but the airplane you end up with is not very useful. AND, as someone else mentioned, you still would have to use all the maintenance practices called out in Part 43, so you gain nothing by converting to experimental.
This might be viewed differently to some. Take Draco the Wilga for example. Might still follow Part 43, but Mike’s got an airplane he couldn’t build in the certified world.
Patey took his Wilga into Experimental Exhibition. This discussion was meant to address going into E-AB.
Patey took his Wilga into Experimental Exhibition. This discussion was meant to address going into E-AB.
If so, what is involved?
Eddie, This is the first indication that you meant E-AB. As others have noted there are a lot of different Experimental categories for almost an unlimited number of purposes. You are not the only one who seems to think that all Experimentals are the same. Far from it.Patey took his Wilga into Experimental Exhibition. This discussion was meant to address going into E-AB.
Can a Certified Aircraft be Taken to Experimental
Eddie, This is the first indication that you meant E-AB. As others have noted there are a lot of different Experimental categories for almost an unlimited number of purposes. You are not the only one who seems to think that all Experimentals are the same. Far from it.
You can try that if you want, but be careful what DAR you decide to work with. Some of us know what questions to ask, how to look at photos, and can tell the difference. (In other words, don't bring it to me!)
Your reply implies I'm suggesting bending the rules. To the contrary, I'm suggesting guys learn the rules.
A very good plan indeed. I always encourage people to learn, and follow, the rules. In the long run, it's better for all of us. But I also wanted to point out that the rules and policies, not to mention FAA personnel, change over time, and what might have been legal, or easy, in the past may not be so easy anymore. And also take into consideration the variation between different FAA offices. What one office is fine with, another office might not want to touch with a 10 foot pole. They're all supposed to be playing by the same rules and policies, but there is often enough ambiguity in those rules and policies to allow a much different response from one office as compared to another.
For example, the office I work through is VERY fussy about the "exhibition" part of experimental exhibition. They want to see a valid purpose for "exhibiting the aircraft’s flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics at air shows, fly-ins, and similar events." (Quote taken from FAA Order 8130.2J) Something like Draco would have a very valid exhibition purpose. Someone building a Super Cub clone would have to convince the inspector just exactly what the airplane is "exhibiting".
And the DAR doesn't make the final determination. If the DAR and the FAA office is operating per the published guidance, the DAR must send the application up the chain to be approved by his or her managing office before proceeding with the inspection and issuance of the certificate. So the applicant must first convince the DAR that the application is appropriate, then the applicant and the DAR must convince the supervising office that the application passes the smell test.
Just want to make everyone aware of how the process works, and that there is more than one possible outcome if you make an application. Keep good records, and make sure you have your ducks in a row before you call the DAR or FAA office.