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Thread: General C180 questions.

  1. #41

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    There’s a guy named Guy Ginbey who’ll make a silicone duplicate of any rubber part you send him. Great stuff at a great price. Google Gee Bee Aeroproducts. He doesn’t have a website, but sells through links on CSOBeech.com. Or you could join Beechtalk and PM him there.

    No connection. Just a customer.

  2. #42
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Do you mean a silicone mold?

    Quote Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
    There’s a guy named Guy Ginbey who’ll make a silicone duplicate of any rubber part you send him. Great stuff at a great price. Google Gee Bee Aeroproducts. He doesn’t have a website, but sells through links on CSOBeech.com. Or you could join Beechtalk and PM him there.

    No connection. Just a customer.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  3. #43

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    No, he makes parts of silicone rubber, if I understand correctly. I bought gas cap gaskets from him. They were blue, rubbery, and perfect.

  4. #44
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    Thanks. I've bought a number of scat type hoses off Guy Ginbey on a Bonanza reno project before. Fantastic gear and Guy's very passionate about his gear. (you do have to push through the cryptic message pain sometimes, but well worth it)

    Thanks Eddie. I had looked at A/S site but hadn't had your success.

    On another note bloody aeroplanes consume a lot of money.

    A few weeks ago I ask a guy I know to look at the gyro driven AH and DG. Got them back with $2800 worth of work and bearings/gimbals. I guess not bad considering they're 45 years old.

    I had my engine mount blasted, and anywhere it's close to the exhaust, it's badly pitted. So it'll be off to the welder I guess.

    The moto of one of the many schools I went to was 'onwards and upwards'.
    Last edited by texmex; 04-05-2019 at 06:35 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridiculousness View Post
    Fine Wire plugs are an obvious way to go as far as spark plugs. I have only ran slick Mags and don't change them very often... usually once maybe twice we change a left mag on an IO-540 in the 2400 hours we run them. I bought a Factory New O470-R it came with Slicks. I am going to switch to fine wire plugs at 500 hundred hours but wouldn't think twice about switching to Bendix mags, just because they are easier to rebuild.... it sucks to have to rebuild any mags but its part of owning an airplane you fly enough you will have an issue with a magneto at some point. If my engine came with Bendix Mags I wouldn't switch them out either.... so run iridium spark plugs and overhaul your mags with the motor who cares what brand they are.
    What ever you decide to run just make sure they are Tempest and not Champion.
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  6. #46

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    Looking to buy real nice Cessna 180. Everything looks good except some minor corrosion on bottom of upper wing skins. Minor that you can see some discoloration but can't feel it. Looks to have been treated. Moving it to Southern Idaho from Seattle area. Living where I do corrosion is usually not a problem. I know it won't heal but would I expect it to get worse in this dry area?

    Don

  7. #47
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don d View Post
    Looking to buy real nice Cessna 180. Everything looks good except some minor corrosion on bottom of upper wing skins. Minor that you can see some discoloration but can't feel it. Looks to have been treated. Moving it to Southern Idaho from Seattle area. Living where I do corrosion is usually not a problem. I know it won't heal but would I expect it to get worse in this dry area?

    Don
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  8. #48

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    What do the insides of the wings and every else look like, does it have the seal plane kit with treated insides? My bird had some minor belly corrosion from a past life on floats that was treated and spot painted and if all else is good I wouldn't be that worried.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  9. #49
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    Hello All.

    My C180 tidy up is continuing. Engine is back and looks flash. Windows are out.

    The Nuffties who put on the Tanalian tailplane leading edge did so and then painted it. So there was corrosion between the leading edge and tailplane. Off it comes for a full strip and repaint. Tail is off and hockey stick STC mod is done.

    New titanium saddle and tail gear spring from 'The Landing Gear Works'. Plus an upgrade to 10" tailwheel fork.

    One new aileron hinge and all new control cables. I mention this as I installed it only a few weeks ago, and now McFarlane tell me that particular aileron hinge has a service bulletin out on it.

    But progress is slow, as I work full time and raise a family.

    So the pressing question I have now is, would someone be able to send some photo's of the dash eight fuel line coming from the firewall, passing through a JPI transducer into the carburettor? The line is short. Reading the blurb on the JPI side they say there should be six inches of line either side of the transducer. JPI answer emails promptly, but strangely don't have any photos to show of their FS450 fuel flow gauge set up.

    This is for a normally aspirated O-470 in a Cessna 180.

    Many thanks,
    Texmex.

    Photo's to come when I'm off the kids super slow desktop and on my new laptop in 6 weeks.

  10. #50
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    Not sure if pics will help much. It's just a couple of hoses connected to a block of aluminum.

    Use 'Mounting procedure 700923' in the install manual. It's easiest if you can fabricate your own hoses as you'll want to keep them as short as possible and it will be easier to figure lengths as you assemble them. Two rules for their transducers to keep in mind: the wires always need to point up and the the transducer needs to be lower than the carb inlet. If you cannot keep the transducer below the carb inlet, you'll need to put a 'hump' up in the line from the transducer to the carb. Either of these steps will help keep air bubbles out of the transducer. JPI wants at least two inches of straight leading to the inlet of the transducer. This means no 45* or 90* fittings on the inlet, straight fittings only. Other manufacturers recommend straight only on inlet and outlet so keep that in mind when making the hoses.

    When I install these, I try to keep the hose from the gascolator to the transducer as short as possible. Then figure out how much hose is needed to route from the transducer to the carb inlet. Cover the transducer with fire sleeve and secure it with metal bands. I like something removable 'just in case'. If you need to, use some adel clamps to secure the assembly to the engine mount. Just be aware of the movement of the engine in the lord mounts; there needs to be some flex in the hose or engine movements will wear the hose/fittings. And make sure the fittings installed into the transducer are steel not aluminum.

    Web
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  11. #51

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    The only pic I took was to document the factory K factor, which was way off from where it is on my airplane.

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    A bit of advice about the FS-450. Get in the habit of noting your total fuel quantity before you add more because I promise you you'll occasionally hit the buttons out of sequence and it'll indicate full tanks. I usually add 10-20 gallons and rarely fill mine. I can't count how many times I've hit those damn buttons wrong. Deleting fuel is a pain, especially from 75 gallons down to 25-30 gallons. Great instrument but now days I review the instructions every time before I touch the add fuel function! The good news is I can calibrate my FS with my fuel dip stick. My dip stick is still my best fuel gauge.


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    Last edited by stewartb; 02-11-2020 at 11:46 AM.
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  12. #52

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    Ran the new teflon hose to the left side for a better fit:

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  13. #53
    texmex's Avatar
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    Many thanks to all.

    ��

  14. #54
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
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    Eddie
    Did you add Fire Sleeve after you took this picture?
    Lou

  16. #56

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    That's a gold cube from EI, right? My cube doesn't require fire sleeve. JPI's transducer does.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
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    Eddie, that's a nice free flowing install, ought to have a good chance at being accurate and repeatable. Only comment is unless that strap around the engine mount is padded you might add some chafe tape under it.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    ….. My dip stick is still my best fuel gauge.
    I dip my tanks after every fill-up, write down the tach time & fuel on board on a piece of blue tape & stick it on the panel.
    I can predict within a gallon where my fuel level is after a flight.
    Never saw the need for a fuel totalizer.
    And other than setting up fuel injectors or similar,
    never saw the need for a fuel flow gauge either.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  19. #59

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    I diagnosed a subtle carb issue with my FS-450. That alone made it a good addition. These days I lean by it. Simple and quick. I trust it more than my digital fuel gauges.
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  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    And make sure the fittings installed into the transducer are steel not aluminum.

    Web
    I've heard that before, but never understood why. What about the fittings at the gascolator and carb...should those be steel too?

    Chris

  21. #61
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    JPI's specification. Probably so the threads don't gall. Shouldn't be for strength as all manufacturers warn against hard mounting to the gascolator or carb. I've seen aluminum, steel, and brass used for the hoses. Never had issues bit I always use thread lube on them. Most engine guys demand steel fittings on the accessory case for oil lines, to prevent galling, so maybe I SHOULD think about steel on the gascolator and carb.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  22. #62
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    https://www.griplockties.com/

    Patey magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Eddie, that's a nice free flowing install, ought to have a good chance at being accurate and repeatable. Only comment is unless that strap around the engine mount is padded you might add some chafe tape under it.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Hi guys. I'm about to pull the engine out of my C180J. Along with the windows / windscreen. And dash. Where does it stop? ….
    So, a year later, I was wondering if you'd care to comment on your original question?
    Also, if you'd care to offer your opinion(s) on what you'd do differently,
    or recommendations to others starting down this road on what to do and what not to do.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  24. #64
    texmex's Avatar
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    Also, if you'd care to offer your opinion(s) on what you'd do differently,
    or recommendations to others starting down this road on what to do and what not to do.
    Nothing enlightening. It’s been a bit of a slog. You can only spread yourself so thin. Busy at work, rural property to maintain, children to feed and educate. At the start of this my wife went back to work 4 days a week, for the first time in 25 years. That’s definitely a good thing the amount these aircraft cost, but it has slowed progress.

    One thing I significantly underestimated was the time spent in manuals, IPC, Genuine and Spruce finding parts and ordering bits. There is as much time doing such as actually putting spanners on the aircraft. And how does a shop pass on those expenses? Taking your aeroplane, car, boat or whatever to somebody that knows them intimately would help.

    I also underestimated the cost. But I guess everybody reading this has done the same before.

    On the positive, my 180 is in my hangar located behind my house, so no large hangar fees or time limits. And I’ve had some brilliant engineers come to me and help, as they live nearby. Technically I’m a licensed LAME, but working with these guys I realise what an amateur I am. The electrical man by day wires up helicopters and then swings by my place after work and is completely re-wiring my C180. And doing a fabulous job. So I’ve been very lucky.

    One area I thought I’d leave was the tail section. But then I found corrosion and also a Cessna service kit for the fin not done which requires more frequent SID’s inspections. So off comes all the tail section. I then found the hockey stick holes badly worn (which in reference to another post on such, would be undetectable without removing the stab) and I chemically stripped the tail gear spring which was not the correct thing to do. So from not intending to touch the tail, I found myself down a 11 k USD hole. Where does it end ��

    Oh, dare I mention the crappy currency I earn. From parity a few years ago, I now need to spend $1.50 for every mighty USD. That hursts.

    But no regrets. Popular opinion has it that you only live once. And I think a Cessna 180 should be in that life. I want to take my family away flying and therefore want it right. I pranged one of my fathers Ag Cats when I was 18 mishandling a minor mechanical defect, and I guess that possibility effects my desire to have my aircraft in good order. Or I’m just fussy.
    Last edited by texmex; 02-16-2020 at 04:39 AM.

  25. #65
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    TexMex,
    I feel your pain. I spent 14 months and approximately 1100 hours redoing my 180. I am now on Spruce's Xmas card list. My reward? A light, great flying 69 180.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  26. #66
    texmex's Avatar
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    Headliners and windlace.

    I’ve done a bit of Googling on headliners. I see Stewartb on another thread wasn’t a fan of the woollen headliner as it stains too easily. And shows water marks. From what I’ve seen he’s correct. Has anyone ever purchased an original, or can you even purchase the original style from Cessna?

    I’ve seen vinyl windlace replacements, but I don’t love them. My understanding is the windlace needs to be flexible enough to fill any areas of low pressure caused by the outside air creating a vacuum if the door does not seal properly. However I can’t recall ever flying along and noticing this. Maybe more theory then practice? Does anyone have suggestions on this?

    I think Cessna built a nice aircraft, and I would like, where practical to have it looking original.

  27. #67

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    Spruce sells vinyl headliners.

    I always thought windlace was mostly there to hide the edges of interior panels. I don't have panels or windlace and my doors don't leak any more than they did with the old interiors.
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  28. #68

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    I am currently on the same rabbit whole adventure with a 67 180H. I had planned on Selkirk foam insulation on the entire inside of the cabin. Then after a trip to Beagles they said they do the the foam, then wrap it with what ever you want for an interior then use Velcro to install the individual panels. Have not put in any panels but this what I am going to do. Wish I had great pics to go along with my suggestion.
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  29. #69
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    What is windlace?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  30. #70
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    What is windlace?
    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=35093


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  31. #71
    texmex's Avatar
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    Eddie, my understanding was when door seal rubbers were less supple, ie not so much silicon, the windlace would do some of the work, and be sucked into any door gaps creating low pressure. Particularly so in say Bonanza doors where there was an area of lower pressure over the top of that cabin door.

    If that be the case, the material Cessna and others of the era used would be more suitable then the stuff Spruce sells. That vinyl isn’t to pliable.

    Who knows, maybe Stewartb is correct and it’s just a bit of fancy trimming.
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  32. #72
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Stewart has the answer on the wildcat for ultimate seal. Bet it would work well on outer Cessna door sides


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  33. #73

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    My Cub door seal might work on a Skywagon but the typical Cessna ribbed quarter round door seals work great. I have one small leak at the pilot front door post about head high. I like leaning into it and getting a breath of fresh air, especially in winter with the heater on. I've never liked the smell of muffler heat. FWIW that leak was present in the three previous conventional interiors with windlace, too.

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Headliners and windlace.

    I’ve done a bit of Googling on headliners. I see Stewartb on another thread wasn’t a fan of the woollen headliner as it stains too easily. And shows water marks. From what I’ve seen he’s correct. Has anyone ever purchased an original, or can you even purchase the original style from Cessna?

    I’ve seen vinyl windlace replacements, but I don’t love them. My understanding is the windlace needs to be flexible enough to fill any areas of low pressure caused by the outside air creating a vacuum if the door does not seal properly. However I can’t recall ever flying along and noticing this. Maybe more theory then practice? Does anyone have suggestions on this?

    I think Cessna built a nice aircraft, and I would like, where practical to have it looking original.
    Man, what are you guys doing to stain wool headliners? I’ve owned and worked several planes with wool headliners and never had stains, even after some ugly loads.

    If you have a leak in the top of the cabin, seal it up, or fly only in AZ. If that’s where stains are coming from, how are you going to control corrosion?

    Wool headliners are easier by far to install so they look good. And, I think wool headliners look better, but that’s me.

    Otherwise, I guess maybe stop doing those slow rolls with moose quarters in the back?

    MTV
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  35. #75

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    Dogs, wet bags with muddy gear, outboard engines, fuel drums, totes full of garden veggies, rototillers, lawnmowers, generators, building materials, wood stoves, you know, the stuff utility airplanes are made to carry. I slit my last vinyl headliner when flying out a load of windows. I liked vinyl better than wool. The only advantage to wool is ease of installation. I'm happiest with no headliner. I've never missed mine.

  36. #76
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Dogs, wet bags with muddy gear, outboard engines, fuel drums, totes full of garden veggies, rototillers, lawnmowers, generators, building materials, wood stoves, you know, the stuff utility airplanes are made to carry. I slit my last vinyl headliner when flying out a load of windows. I liked vinyl better than wool. The only advantage to wool is ease of installation. I'm happiest with no headliner. I've never missed mine.
    Ive carried most of those and more, , including a live bear, but whatever winds your watch, I reckon. If your hire the install done vinyl is okay I reckon. Done it myself twice, and wool is my go to. And a LOT easier to makes look good.

    MTV
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  37. #77

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    10 years later.... couldn't be happier.

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  38. #78
    texmex's Avatar
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    Alright, as everyone is bored in lockup, I will ask some dumb questions. Just for fun.

    What are the hieroglyphics on the front of my engine case? If you expand out the pic you will see many.


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    What type of clamps are these and can you still get them? I like them. Neat and without the big stainless lug of a hose clamp. And they have done a good job for the last 46 years.

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    Last edited by texmex; 05-04-2020 at 07:10 AM.

  39. #79
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    No Idea,
    but it appears your intake balance tube does not have the tab that gets captured by the center two sump bolts. or is that an optical illusion? I guess some had them and some didn't. Seems like a handy time to add it if that is the case. A sudden departure of the balance tube in the event of an intake side backfire would be less than fun.

    Take care, Rob

  40. #80
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    ....it appears your intake balance tube does not have the tab that gets captured by the center two sump bolts. or is that an optical illusion? ...
    Looks to me like the balance tube is hose-clamped to a bracket.
    I've seen that before.
    Welds can break (had it happen on mine), clamps can come loose.
    Think I prefer the welded on version.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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