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Thread: General C180 questions.

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    texmex's Avatar
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    General C180 questions.

    Hi guys. I'm about to pull the engine out of my C180J. Along with the windows / windscreen. And dash. Where does it stop?

    IMG_2476.JPG

    Forgive my greenhorn questions, of which I am sure to have many over the next six months, could someone help me with the following.

    Why do the magnetos have 'Slick' cast into the housing, but then the stamp on them has Bendix?

    My understanding is just buy new mags for an engine overhaul?

    IMG_4480.jpg

    Cessna parts.

    The Cessna 180 manual I have for a '74 aircraft shows the pin in the air box that clips the flexible air duct to it has a part number of W98293-3-320.

    Using Google to find these I see Cessna has them for $111 dollars. For a nothing little wing nut pin??? But the -360 pin is $9. As it should be. What am I missing here?

    The IPC I'm using was downloaded off the International 180/185 organisation, and for the latter models I've found jumbled. Mixed up in the alphabetic index, Figure 72 missing (for example). Does anyone have an uncorrupted version of this.

    Many thanks for your patience and answers.
    Texmex.





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    To the airbox duct attach, my own J model had winged quarter turn fasteners but those got drilled out the last time Atlee's repaired my airbox. I suspect those are the high priced fasteners. For reasons unknown to me Atlee's declined to reinstall quarter turn fasteners. Now I use drilled bolts, castle nuts, and safety pins. No big deal.

    IPC? What are you referring to? The parts catalog? I have digital files of the service manual, SID manual, and parts catalog for the J. PM me and I can share them.

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    The original owner, that placed the manual on the internet, scrambled the page order to discourage others from selling digital copies. I have some manuals like this and finally copied them to paper to make it easier on me. Maybe find a 13 year old to unscramble the manual on the computer? They seem to be better at that than we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    IPC? What are you referring to? The parts catalog? I have digital files of the service manual, SID manual, and parts catalog for the J. PM me and I can share them.
    IPC = Illustrated Parts Catalog
    MM = Maintenance Manual

    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Where does it stop?

    It doesn't

    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    My understanding is just buy new mags for an engine overhaul?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Using Google to find these I see Cessna has them for $111 dollars. For a nothing little wing nut pin??? But the -360 pin is $9. As it should be. What am I missing here?
    Welcome to the world of Textron anti-GA predatory pricing.


    Last edited by 180_jeff; 01-21-2019 at 11:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    The IPC I'm using was downloaded off the International 180/185 organisation, and for the latter models I've found jumbled. Mixed up in the alphabetic index, Figure 72 missing (for example). Does anyone have an uncorrupted version of this.
    There are a couple of places that have pdfs of the IPCs and MMs, including Cessna's support site. This forum will not let me post the links.

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    FWIW I believe Univair sells both IPC's & MM's for the C180. Dunno the price.
    PDF's etc are fine but for me, it's easier to work with paper copies.
    Of course, you can print out the applicable pages from the e-file.
    Re mags, i
    f you have a choice between the two, I
    MHO a Bendix throws a hotter spark than a Slick.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    For your Slick/Bendix, do you have a Bendix magneto with a Slick harness? It will have Slick on the harness cap. Not unusual. I think the manual says accessories, mags, carb, and etc., should be overhauled when the engine is overhauled. Replacement/exchange with new or overhauled works too. Here in part 91 ops the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" adage often comes up at overhaul time when said accessories are low time and the owner is cheap---I mean frugal.
    You can't get there from here. You have to go over yonder and start from there.
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Bendix mags are almost infinitely rebuildable. Rebuild or exchange for rebuilt is usually the way to go.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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    Bendix is by far the best way to go. I would replace or have them rebuilt at overhaul.
    DENNY
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    I'm pretty sure the last factory reman I bought, which has morphed into an 0-520, has Slicks and they work fine. Since Continental provided the same spec number engine as what I returned I assume the original engine also had Slicks. I see comments here about Bendix being better and wonder how an average owner/pilot can tell the difference. I know two kinds of mags. Ones that work and ones that don't. As long as they work I don't care what company made them. Why does Slick have a bad rep?

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    You got me. I specified Slick mags on my IO470F.

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    Slicks have a bad rap because they have had several years of issues with the points. They put out a SB saying they have fixed the problem, then a year or two latter put out another SB with the same issue. When a slick works they do fine. When they don't the symptoms are intermittent (usually starting) and very hard to figure out that it is the mags.
    DENNY
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I see comments here about Bendix being better and wonder how an average owner/pilot can tell the difference. I know two kinds of mags. Ones that work and ones that don't. As long as they work I don't care what company made them. Why does Slick have a bad rep?
    After years of working on both and noting which was easier to repair and more reliable, the choice is Bendix every time.
    N1PA
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    Interesting. I guess I should pull me working Slicks and replace them? Nah. And on that topic, I have a couple of friends who believe I need to toss my Pmags. There's a better chance of that than replacing the Slicks.

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    My advice was to get Bendix because he was going to replace/rebuild current mags. I would not usually recommend replacing a set of good running slicks, but at overhaul/rebuild time get Bendix and be done with all the issues.
    DENNY
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    texmex's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your replies.

    PM sent thanks Stewartb for the offer of manuals.

    winged quarter turn fasteners
    Bloody hell. Mine is not broken but there is a fair bit of force on it and I thought I'd be prepared for when it does. $111 USD for such a basic fastener. I need to get my aircraft going and get to a Cessna 180 fly-in to see what every one else does.

    N86250 - Yep, I had another look today and yes, a Slick harness cap and Bendix mag. I would never of guessed that.

    I pulled the engine out today, so progress.

    Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess with the weather your've got indoor time. At my house today it was 36 degrees celsius and it'll be 40 on Friday. (That's 104 F for you lot)

    I purchased 'Steve's Gascolator' today so that's also progress. Avion panel next.
    Last edited by texmex; 01-22-2019 at 05:46 AM.

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    texmex's Avatar
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    Today's dumb question.

    All the little bits, like spacers and stay's that hold cables and stuff into position, I was going to plate or paint.

    Some are aluminium and some are steel. I was thinking of Zinc plating the steel. What are everyones faviourite finishes for such?

    I'm told a number around here when they rebuild an engine use aerosol cans, I think you guys call them rattle cans, for painting the case, sump, induction etc. That seems incredibly amateurish to me. Is that normal practice?

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    When I did paint an engine I primed with Variprime and top coated with single stage Imron. Neither of my current engines are painted. If it was me overhauling one today? I wouldn't paint it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    ….. When a slick works they do fine. When they don't the symptoms are intermittent (usually starting) and very hard to figure out that it is the mags. DENNY
    I had this issue years ago with the purchased-new-at-engine-overhaul Slicks on my old C170.
    Hard starting, then flat ass wouldn't start one day when I was out.
    AOG overnight and finally got it running (barely) the next day--
    but enough to get it home, 10 miles away.
    I was sure it was the mags, pulled them off and had Paul Nyenhaus test them on his testing bench.
    Nope, they met Slick specs.
    Turned out to be the plugs, which had about 550 hours on them.
    I didn't know enough then to actually test the resistance through the plugs with an ohmmeter, so don't know what the actual readings were,
    but apparently it was too high for the slicks to work.
    Now you can correctly say it was the plugs that were the problem,
    but I'd had my previous Bendix mags fire plugs with probably 3 times the number of hours on them and work just fine.
    (my IA finally made me replace those old plugs-- "look at them, they're just all worn out")
    So as far as I'm concerned, Bendix mags just throw a hotter spark than Slicks.
    Maybe not a reason to replace airworthy slicks, but if I was buying new (or at engine overhaul) I'd go Bendix every time.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    I installed fine wires in my IO470F and haven't looked back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    I'm told a number around here when they rebuild an engine use aerosol cans, I think you guys call them rattle cans, for painting the case, sump, induction etc. That seems incredibly amateurish to me. Is that normal practice?
    The paint is only there to prevent rust or corrosion. If you are not in an area where corrosion of aluminum is an issue, leave it unpainted for better cooling of the engine. The paint can block some of the heat from escaping.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 01-22-2019 at 06:26 PM.
    N1PA
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    texmex's Avatar
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    I hate to sound like a tight a*** airline pilot, but here goes. Aeroplanes do my head in at times.

    These rubber bushes or shock mounts that hold or steady the alternator are small simple rubber bushes. But they sell for $115 USD. My IPC shows a part number of J9534-20 and four needed.

    Has anyone come across this before or know a cheaper source?

    Wireweinie or other electrical gurus?

    Cheers,
    Texmex.

    IMG_4560.JPG

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    texmex's Avatar
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    Is this Cessna or an aftermarket job? Found under the glovebox on the right hand side, and with a large plastic relay (pulled out before photo taken).

    My electrical man who's re-wiring the radios and dash and I were looking at it yesterday and wondering. He's yet to open the books and is not familiar with C180's.

    IMG_4559.JPG

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    I have the same issue with the rotted rubber alternator bushings. You did well. Cheapest I found was $215 each! Earlier and later models did not use rubber bushings so I'm making steel bushings.
    Thanks rickvt thanked for this post

  25. #25
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Pour your own rubber bushings. http://www.specialtyresin.com/ Obviously not pma’d. It’s quite simple. 50 50 mix.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    I hate to sound like a tight a*** airline pilot, but here goes. Aeroplanes do my head in at times.

    These rubber bushes or shock mounts that hold or steady the alternator are small simple rubber bushes. But they sell for $115 USD. My IPC shows a part number of J9534-20 and four needed.

    Has anyone come across this before or know a cheaper source?

    Wireweinie or other electrical gurus?

    Cheers,
    Texmex.

    IMG_4560.JPG
    That's a Lord number. Just do a Google search for that number and buy it as a part instead of an airplane part.

    Web
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Is this Cessna or an aftermarket job? Found under the glovebox on the right hand side, and with a large plastic relay (pulled out before photo taken).

    My electrical man who's re-wiring the radios and dash and I were looking at it yesterday and wondering. He's yet to open the books and is not familiar with C180's.

    IMG_4559.JPG
    That's a junction box found only on Cessnas. For connection info you'll need to see a Cessna Avionics book. Or know some one that could send you a scan of that page. For what it's worth, I never keep those boxes when I do an avionics installation. With newer audio controls and some common sense, the wiring can be greatly simplified.

    Web
    Web
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    That rubber bushing looks a lot like the bushing on my ancient Mustang shock absorber. Airplane parts are often very expensive auto parts with a PMA. Case in point: that nail in the 1934 Ford window crank we use in Cubs for trim - fifty bucks, sealed with appropriate paperwork.

  29. #29
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    How does one do a Google search as a part instead of an airplane part? When you enter j9534-20 in google it comes up as a very expensive airplane part. I too went down this road and only found extremely overpriced bushings.

    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    That's a Lord number. Just do a Google search for that number and buy it as a part instead of an airplane part.

    Web
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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    There are places that list items from Lord Manufacturing. If you can find your part number in one of these listings, you'll get charged for a non aviation part. They are real parts with the Lord number molded in and are indistinguishable from sources like Cessna.

    Web
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  31. #31
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    There are places that list items from Lord Manufacturing. If you can find your part number in one of these listings, you'll get charged for a non aviation part. They are real parts with the Lord number molded in and are indistinguishable from sources like Cessna.

    Web
    I searched some too... no luck, probably made by LORD FOR Cessna....??? $100 of liquid & you can make 30 of them... not that you need to make that many.... use one to make your silicone mold, after that pull the metal guts out of old ones and cast new ones.... simple, fun, and another tool in your knowledge base..... just have to measure the rubber hardness of original(Durometer)

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    Fine Wire plugs are an obvious way to go as far as spark plugs. I have only ran slick Mags and don't change them very often... usually once maybe twice we change a left mag on an IO-540 in the 2400 hours we run them. I bought a Factory New O470-R it came with Slicks. I am going to switch to fine wire plugs at 500 hundred hours but wouldn't think twice about switching to Bendix mags, just because they are easier to rebuild.... it sucks to have to rebuild any mags but its part of owning an airplane you fly enough you will have an issue with a magneto at some point. If my engine came with Bendix Mags I wouldn't switch them out either.... so run iridium spark plugs and overhaul your mags with the motor who cares what brand they are.
    Last edited by ridiculousness; 02-14-2019 at 12:04 AM.
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    Try looking at the auto stores/bearing shops for the rubber bushing
    https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...680040_70333_0
    DENNY

  34. #34
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    You should make a video for all of us!

    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    I searched some too... no luck, probably made by LORD FOR Cessna....??? $100 of liquid & you can make 30 of them... not that you need to make that many.... use one to make your silicone mold, after that pull the metal guts out of old ones and cast new ones.... simple, fun, and another tool in your knowledge base..... just have to measure the rubber hardness of original(Durometer)
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  35. #35
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    You should make a video for all of us!
    Plenty of casting videos on YouTube.


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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Try looking at the auto stores/bearing shops for the rubber bushing
    https://www.autozone.com/batteries-s...680040_70333_0
    DENNY
    That used to work back in the day--
    the grizzled old counter man would take a look at your bushing / bracket / handle / whatever,
    mutter "yeah we got some of those back here somewhere",
    disappear for a while in the back, then emerge with the part you need.
    "Seven ninety nine", pay and away you go.
    Nowadays, if you don't have a p/n or automobile make & model info they can punch into the computer,
    you're **** outa luck.
    I miss the old days.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  37. #37
    texmex's Avatar
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    I got the bushes of Web. Thanks Web.


    IMG_4696.JPG

    Does anyone have a source for this plastic tubing and what I would call 'compression olives' that Cessna used for the static instrument system. I think it's great stuff, just old and brittle after 45 years.

    And how about the 'ONE EIGHTY' badge in the centre of the control column. I'm painting the control wheels and bits and pieces.

    Many thanks,
    Texmex.

    IMG_4711.JPG

  38. #38
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    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...s/271nnylo.php

    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...s/nyloseal.php








    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    I got the bushes of Web. Thanks Web.


    IMG_4696.JPG

    Does anyone have a source for this plastic tubing and what I would call 'compression olives' that Cessna used for the static instrument system. I think it's great stuff, just old and brittle after 45 years.

    And how about the 'ONE EIGHTY' badge in the centre of the control column. I'm painting the control wheels and bits and pieces.

    Many thanks,
    Texmex.

    IMG_4711.JPG
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  39. #39
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Where?
    Link?
    Price?



    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    I got the bushes of Web. Thanks Web.

    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  40. #40
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Hey! I aint giving up all my 'sources'! lol

    Web
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