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Thread: Airglas GLH3000 with handpump question.

  1. #1
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Airglas GLH3000 with handpump question.

    A bit confused on some of the gear position indication jargon on the install/ops paperwork. It seems all geared for using that electric pump kit that comes with switches and indicator lights. It does say you can use a installed hand hyd pump but mentions nothing of an position indication instrumentation/lights. I planned on using what I’ve seen on a couple of other planes that had alignment marks on ski and doors to show full open/closed. Plus your supposed to look out and verify the position anyway,duh..
    Anyway the gentleman from Airglas said I would have to get a “approval” from the FAA to deviate from their STC.
    I thought you had to get a approval letter from the STC holder to deviate from their setup and submit said letter with the 337 after ski installation and it all would be kosher. Is this the case?
    Anyone out there run this ski setup like I am thinking about doing?
    Appreciate yalls input?

    This is going on a PA-18-150

    Art
    Last edited by TVATIVAK71; 01-19-2019 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Forgot plane type

  2. #2

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    I prefer my old Fluidyne pump and in a Cub, located on the right side near the panel height. That should be an easy approval. There's an old thread here that identified the still available pump but the skis up-down switch remains a mystery. I expect to add hydraulic skis to my Cub next fall and will need to figure the switch part out.

  3. #3
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    I was going to do the electric pump option but even though it says the kit is sold seperatly, they wouldnít sell me the pump kit without buying the skis. In my cheapa$$ mind thou I wanted to buy all the stuff (pump, modified gear legs etc.) gradually get it installed then have enough money saved to buy the skis themselves. I have a pump and decided just to go the manual route. Plus I donít have the panel space to put that fancy switch and indicator lights. That being said those indicator lights are only triggered by a pressure switch in the pump(electric) not by switches on the skis themselves. The operation instructions just seem to reference the electric pump ops but acknowledge you can use a manual pump as a side note. I have the pump mounted on the floor to the front right of the seat with the handle shortened. Itís been cleaned up and gone through. Those lines off the side are for referencing new holes in floor to tee fittings below. Either way the skis are a done deal now. Whatever it takes to make it happen!LOL
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  4. #4
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    The hand pump is just installed parallel to the electric pump, when used together. This means that all the lights will work with either pump. In your case, if you don't install the electric pump, all the pressure switches still get installed in the same lines as they would with the electrical pump system and actuate the same. Give me a call if you'd like me to draw it up. 907-841-8105

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  5. #5
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Huh, I must have thought that electric/hand pump parallel installation was for the wipair pump option. Never thought about altering the lines in my installation to accept the pressure switches. Might have to pick your brain about that!

  6. #6
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Going to the Wasilla gun show today, but anytime after that.

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    Keep this thread updated as I'm already setup with electric pump with Glh 3000 and want to convert to the hand pump. Still need to source said hand pump. Any make and model info is appreciated. The electric setup is legit and very easy to operate but I was reminded how a mechanical pump would be a fail safe option and also likely reduce weight.
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  8. #8

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    This old thread may help. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...p-for-Hyd-skis

    Why do you need status lights? Hydraulic skis have been used for a long time without needing lights.
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-20-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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  9. #9
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Pressure switches for indicator lights? Sounds ripe for false indication with iced up/frozen ski....


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  10. #10
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Pressure switches for indicator lights? Sounds ripe for false indication with iced up/frozen ski....


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    I agree that they have their shortcomings. But it's fairly common as it's an easy set up compared to true position switches.

    Web
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  11. #11

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    Pump volume per stroke is important. Try to find out what the volume per stroke is or you may end up with a lot of pumps to get the skis up/down.
    DENNY

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    Forget the lights. Just look outside at the skis. Foolproof.
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    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyk View Post
    Forget the lights. Just look outside at the skis. Foolproof.
    Yah think! (sarcasm)LOL Just curious why the hand pump is an approved option for the STC but yet there is no mention of operation or installation in the paperwork/supplement. Kinda confusing when you go to the operation instructions and all you find is what I attached below.

    That being said our setup will use a hand pump with no lights and be operated as per our pump procedures. Kinda new to this wheel ski stuff and just got confused by the light show in the instructions and a comment made by an Airglas rep. After all it was originally designed to use the electric pump.

    Very curious on how many pumps it will take.
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  14. #14
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Pump is a Teledyne Republic AN6201-1 part#3-1158-18 1500psi

    FWIW there is a pump at Stoddards that is just the base and handle. No selector,base, or fittings.
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  15. #15
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    That pump's displacement is listed as 1.25/1.5 cubic inches. That means that when you push the handle both directions, one time, you will move 2.75 cubic inches of hydraulic fluid. If you can find out the volume of the actuator (different volume for extension and retraction) you can mathematically calculate the number of strokes of the handle to full up and full down.

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  16. #16
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Damm, that was quick! Thanks!

  17. #17

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    Most people mount the pump on right side of floor in front of pilot seat. Move it around and try it out before you drill. Be sure to seal the penetration holes in fuselage to avoid exhaust in cockpit in slow flight. For number of strokes, just hook it up and count. It ain't a big deal unless you're pumping stock deHavilland skis.

    RK

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Here is an idea for a pump. EDO used a hydraulic power pack from a Republic Seabee for the 339-JHS amphib floats on the PA-18. It is mounted on the floor in front of the stick. There are two levers originally used for flaps and landing gear. They are used for the left and right floats and can easily be plumbed into the left and right skis. If you can find one of these units it's a simple solution.
    N1PA

  19. #19
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjh356 View Post
    Keep this thread updated as I'm already setup with electric pump with Glh 3000 and want to convert to the hand pump. Still need to source said hand pump. Any make and model info is appreciated. The electric setup is legit and very easy to operate but I was reminded how a mechanical pump would be a fail safe option and also likely reduce weight.
    Well, it wasnít a big deal to do the hand pump option. I did all hard lines in the fuselage and ran them to tees that extend from below boot cowl and made my own lines (ripped off a buddies Mandrel) to the rams. But, itís about 79 pumps to deploy the skis and same for wheels. Dosent require lots of force either. Iím satisfied! Still grinning.
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    Is that 79 single strokes I hope, and not 79 up-down cycles?

  21. #21
    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    One back and forth throw is what I am referring to as one pump. I am certain ALL air is purged out of both sides of system. The handle is short. I noticed that the ski plate moves almost 2 inches quickly with every pump till it hits the tire then it’s a bit slow till the tire rides up on it. The right ski extends a bit (20secs) before the left. Those rams must have quite a capacity, took lots of hyd fluid. I talked to a couple of folks at Airglas about using that particular hand pump setup their answer was 80-90 pumps to move gear each way. So for me all this was expected.

  22. #22

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    Surprising. My Fluidynes take around 50 up-down cycles. As I recall the Flilites were around 40. I may go with Airglas skis and if so maybe I can find a higher output pump. Thanks for the pirep.

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    I am searching for a reasonably priced Parker Hand Pump series 914 as you have and am having 0 luck. I saw the one in Stoddards but am hesitant to purchase with worry of not being able to find parts should the pump be in-op. I could not decipher the make or model of the pump but it sure did look like the Parker or similar. Any idea where a remanufactured or used one is for sale or where to find? Or maybe you can confirm the one at Stoddard’s is in fact a Parker and I will move promptly to acquire.

    Also so did your setup require special valve and selector switch? The folks in ANC who are the Parker vendor have quoted the 014 pump at $3509.00!! That’s before the base block and valve assembly. Thanks for the time and consideration.
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  24. #24

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    Alaska Hydraulics in Anchorage overhauled mine. I don't think there's much to worry about there.

  25. #25
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjh356 View Post
    I am searching for a reasonably priced Parker Hand Pump series 914 as you have and am having 0 luck. I saw the one in Stoddards but am hesitant to purchase with worry of not being able to find parts should the pump be in-op. I could not decipher the make or model of the pump but it sure did look like the Parker or similar. Any idea where a remanufactured or used one is for sale or where to find? Or maybe you can confirm the one at Stoddard’s is in fact a Parker and I will move promptly to acquire.

    Also so did your setup require special valve and selector switch? The folks in ANC who are the Parker vendor have quoted the 014 pump at $3509.00!! That’s before the base block and valve assembly. Thanks for the time and consideration.
    Look at Parker’s web site. They still make many of the old pumps, and presumably parts as well. You may be surprised.

    MTV

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by bjh356 View Post
    I am searching for a reasonably priced Parker Hand Pump series 914 as you have and am having 0 luck. I saw the one in Stoddards but am hesitant to purchase with worry of not being able to find parts should the pump be in-op. I could not decipher the make or model of the pump but it sure did look like the Parker or similar. Any idea where a remanufactured or used one is for sale or where to find? Or maybe you can confirm the one at Stoddardís is in fact a Parker and I will move promptly to acquire.

    Also so did your setup require special valve and selector switch? The folks in ANC who are the Parker vendor have quoted the 014 pump at $3509.00!! Thatís before the base block and valve assembly. Thanks for the time and consideration.

    I picked up a brand new one off ebay for $350 last year.

  27. #27
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I gave one away last week.
    N1PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I gave one away last week.
    Dang!

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Look at Parker’s web site. They still make many of the old pumps, and presumably parts as well. You may be surprised.

    MTV
    Parker still does. You are right, big surprise at the price tag. A Series 914 costs approx $4000 after a valve/selector switch and valve body are purchased. Then I look on here and people are claiming to be giving them away for free or purchasing them on eBay for $300!
    Folks that have these should likely not be giving them away based on what they cost new!

    Thanks and if anyone else is contemplating giving one away, please reach out to me. I’ll actually pay.

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