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How would you retrieve a cub fallen through the ice?

cubpilot2

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Anchorage Alaska
Ok. Lots of experience out there. How would or did you get a plane out of something like this?

Oh... and with minimal damage. Give details please as it could really help someone in the future.

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Cut it loose with a chainsaw, jack it up by the wings (jacks and cribs), tent and heat it to thaw out some of the water weight, and call Northern Pioneer to fly it back to civilization.
 
Most of the cub is on top the ice so once it is loose it should move pretty easy. Dry suit, chain saw and then pick it up with helicopter. Hotsy or other heater to melt ice would be nice. You once you cut it free of the ice you might be able to pick it up with the helicopter. It went in because the ice is not thick so as you pick the plane the water will drain out (cut belly) that leaves you with a 1200 lb cub with 3 inches of ice inside. The helicopters pick up beavers so the cub should not be that big of a problem. On the cheap I would build tripod on 4x8 plywood sheets and cut ice with chainsaw and come along it out slowly. Once it is onto of the ice let everything freeze then tarp it, thaw, change oil, mags, prop, and struts. Fire it up and go home.
DENNY
 
Max Folsom could fly in there with 3 Spruce poles, chainsaw and couple of blue tarps and a chain comealong, and have that out, in 2 hrs! He and his brother Rodney, can
Flip a Skywagon thats upside down in the water on floats , turn it back over, drag it to shure, and in 6 hrs; fly it outta there! If it didnt get other damage when it got fliped. They have done dozens of them over the last 40 years!

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In my case the tips of the skis were on the bottom about five feet deep. We set up two heights of pipe staging on the bottom, then with a come-a-long tied to the crankshaft behind the prop lifted it high enough to place some long 2 x 12s under the skis to straddle the hole. Then dragged it to shore. One prop blade was bent so changed prop. Borrowed a generator from the fire dept to run a space heater to get the engine running. Flew it off the ice. The take off run was about a half a mile with the ice in the wings and belly. Put it in a friends heated hangar where it took about a week to melt the ice which had collected.
 
The Bradley lake cub in ice story has been discussed on here a couple years ago. That recovery took a while as I recall due to bad weather that refroze all of the work that had been done the previous couple weeks. Notice in the picture of that cub they used an outboard motor to move the water around and over the plane to keep the ice open and ware away the remaining ice. As I recall my Dad flew me by it before they started trying to remove it and all that was showing above the snow was part of the rudder. That canyon is a really cold place to try and thaw ice that time of year.

 
It probably will run, but my head says it went in water at probably full power, so prop blades will be bent forward, engine sucked up water too so probably bent conecting rod or 2. Maybe hydrolocked a cylinder/head separation maybe.


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Many years ago (the 1980 era) the owner of a large A/E firm here in Anchorage flipped his amphib 185 off the end of my dock in very late October. The lake froze before they plucked it out. They waited until December, used chainsaws to cut the ice away, built a log tripod over it and hoisted it up.
 
Serious question as I've heard the tripod idea before. How long were the logs? I figure you'd need nearly 20' legs on the tripod given the scope they'd need to clear the plane.
 
I really don't remember. It was either my senior year in HS or my freshman year in college and details like that just didn't matter. I am sure you are right though, in the 20' range would make sense. Plenty of good birch and spruce there that you can easily get that distance out of. My cabin ended up 20 x 24 with a 8 foot covered deck and 2 foot overhang on the back. So some of my logs were 30+ feet for the purlins. I don't remember what happened to the logs either, I just remember the big flooded mess it created where I snowmachine off the lake usually.
 
NTSB Identification: ANC85LA007

The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 25745.

Accident occurred Saturday, October 20, 1984 in SHULIN LAKE, AK

Aircraft: CESSNA A185E, registration: N70018
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.

NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

THE ACFT NOSED OVER DURING A WATER LANDING. THIS ACFT HAD WHEELS IN THE FLOATS AND ONE OF THE WHEELS WAS NOT RETRACTED FOR THE WATER LANDING. THESE GEAR ARE HAND RETRACTED BY THE PLT. THE PLT SAID HE CHECKED VISUALLY TO INSURE THE LEFT GEAR WAS UP BUT DID NOT VISUALLY CHECK THE RIGHT. TO DO SO ONE MUST UNDO SAFETY BELT AND LOOK OUT THE RIGHT SIDE. GEAR INDICATORS UNRELIABLE IF LANDINGS MADE IN SALT WATER. A MIRROR IS PROVIDED BUT HARD TO READ FOR VISUAL CHECK FROM LEFT SEAT.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I like how it states "IN Shulin Lake" not "at Shulin lake"

Also, in October 1984 I would have been a senior in HS, so the only thing on my mind was girls and graduating. Not tripods.
 
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Serious question as I've heard the tripod idea before. How long were the logs? I figure you'd need nearly 20' legs on the tripod given the scope they'd need to clear the plane.
Stew,
We have had a set of galvanized 2.5" pipe tripod here since the 1960's that has been used on Cubs , Champs, Tcrafts many times for changing from floats to skis. I will
measure the legs tomorrow if your interested ? Its just 3 pipes held togeather by one eyebolt at top thru all 3 pipes. I am going to guess they are about 16' but not sure on that. I used to jack 180/185 up when we got caught in overflow with spruce poles are those do need to be about
20' ers! Later.
E

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Serious question as I've heard the tripod idea before. How long were the logs? I figure you'd need nearly 20' legs on the tripod given the scope they'd need to clear the plane.

when we'd go change a 185 engine we would take 16' 2X4" with us inside the 185 to make tripod... going back in tail

I would assume that's about the same hight needed... you'd be picking by the engine/or crank....
 
Stew,
We have had a set of galvanized 2.5" pipe tripod here since the 1960's that has been used on Cubs , Champs, Tcrafts many times for changing from floats to skis. I will
measure the legs tomorrow if your interested ? Its just 3 pipes held togeather by one eyebolt at top thru all 3 pipes. I am going to guess they are about 16' but not sure on that. I used to jack 180/185 up when we got caught in overflow with spruce poles are those do need to be about
20' ers! Later.
E

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I would like to know. Probably a few others here would as well. Then I'll pray I never need the knowledge!
 
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Wait until the ice goes out and tow it to a nice long beach.
 

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Some years ago, some may remember the incident at Mile Hi concerning a Bearhawk with tweaked gear. A comalong and a log tripod did the job there, so the gear could be jury rigged together enough to fly it out. A group effort, lots of hands on deck, it was a pretty slick deal, and at least it saved a helicopter bill.
 
Some years ago, some may remember the incident at Mile Hi concerning a Bearhawk with tweaked gear. A comalong and a log tripod did the job there, so the gear could be jury rigged together enough to fly it out. A group effort, lots of hands on deck, it was a pretty slick deal, and at least it saved a helicopter bill.

My step brother and I replaced the gear shoes and reinstalled the gears on a 185 with no hoist. Tip plane onto one wingtip, shoveled dirt under belly on other side. Tip other way and repeat till we had it high enough to put gear and big tires back on. We got there late afternoon and I think by midday next day we had it on it’s gear again. Our pilot had made a nice 60’ landing with the 185’. About a foot to low. Left one gear in the riverbank and other mostly removed.


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During the late 80s a 185 with a brand new set of hydraulic wheel skis went to the bottom of Two Lakes when the pilot needed a pit stop after having been told by his boss not to land on that lake. That lake is known for having thin spots in the middle of the winter. As far as I know it is still there at 190 feet. I found it with a side scan sonar. It is right side up facing north out near the middle.
 
During the late 80s a 185 with a brand new set of hydraulic wheel skis went to the bottom of Two Lakes when the pilot needed a pit stop after having been told by his boss not to land on that lake. That lake is known for having thin spots in the middle of the winter. As far as I know it is still there at 190 feet. I found it with a side scan sonar. It is right side up facing north out near the middle.
Bring it up, call it Glacier Girl 2.
 
Bring it up, call it Glacier Girl 2.
I entertained the thought at the time. A group of people bought it on the bottom and then one of them lost his life in a crash of something else. They wanted me to show them where it is but did not want to compensate me for what it had cost me to locate it. I did snag it. The plan was to lasso the prop and pull. But without a title, I just left it there. There is likely only superficial sheet metal damage and whatever the water did to it. At that depth it's likely in decent shape.
 
Lake bottoms can be corrosive. Low oxygen levels at times and hydrogen sulfide produced by bacteria and vegetative decomposition. Can create acidic pH levels. Not saying that's the case here but it can happen.

Gary
 
This one has a constant current, at least when the ice is out. It actually flows from the outlet towards the inlet on the surface. Lots of glacial silt.
 
Yes AkTango, I'm the brother. It was a great adventure and you can't beat the view.

He showed me pictures of that recovery. Pretty cool!!

How is your other bird? I spend an extra few days in Bethel so Nate could help on that.

Pete- more than one owner has told a pilot to stay off X lake, only to find the pilot landed exactly there- and needed assistance to get home.:oops::oops:

skis and thin ice is tough, when you do go through you have to get out and around the wing to get air... scary for me.
 
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