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How would you retrieve a cub fallen through the ice?

Craig Elg when he owned Regal air at Lake Hood was taking a trapper in his 185 to upper Russian Lake shortly before Christmas several years ago.
The trapper was to use a forest service cabin there.
Craig was concerned about overflow so he made two parallel passes in front of the cabin. No overflow was showing so he landed between the two previous tracks an stopped near the cabin.

He and the passenger were outside discussing where to unload his gear when Craig noticed some overflow showing under the 185.
He got in to move it and as soon as he hit the starter it broke through the ice and fell to the wings.
He said he wasn’t sure if he was going to get out as he could barely open the door due to the ice jamming it.
As I recall he said he had to push/kick it open with his legs and barely squeezed out.
His only route to the surface was through the holes left in the ice by the ski tips.

Craig was wearing Carhart insulated coveralls and of course soaked. All of their gear was now under water.
He and his passenger got into the cabin which had some firewood but no way to light a fire.
Craig said that fortunately for years he had carried a small flint on his key chain;and was able to use it and his pocket knife to get a spark enough to ignite a flame.
Without that they would have been in deep trouble as he was already becoming hypothermic.

I don’t recall who rescued them but it was within a couple of days.

The 185 was turned over to the insurance company and was retrieved by a third party hired by them. They waited for the ice to thicken and went in with snow machines to get it out.
Craig said that they used chainsaws and axes to break the ice free at the engine and fuselage.
They then jacked the tail up high enough to pull it over on its back with the snow machines.
When it fell over the vertical fin and rudder took a beating.

They then proceeded to drag it backwards on its back, away from the hole. Somehow later it was turned back on its feet ( I think with the helicopter) and sling lifted back to Lake Hood.

Craig bought the salvage back and eventually restored it. Lots of damage was done during the retrieval; with lots of bent metal ,dents, and axe marks.
Got to help him with the repairs and reassembly. It served him well until he sold out and left Alaska.

Sure miss Craig! Gone west way too soon.
 
Craig Elg when he owned Regal air at Lake Hood was taking a trapper in his 185 to upper Russian Lake shortly before Christmas several years ago.
The trapper was to use a forest service cabin there.
Craig was concerned about overflow so he made two parallel passes in front of the cabin. No overflow was showing so he landed between the two previous tracks an stopped near the cabin.

He and the passenger were outside discussing where to unload his gear when Craig noticed some overflow showing under the 185.
He got in to move it and as soon as he hit the starter it broke through the ice and fell to the wings.
He said he wasn’t sure if he was going to get out as he could barely open the door due to the ice jamming it.
As I recall he said he had to push/kick it open with his legs and barely squeezed out.
His only route to the surface was through the holes left in the ice by the ski tips.

Craig was wearing Carhart insulated coveralls and of course soaked. All of their gear was now under water.
He and his passenger got into the cabin which had some firewood but no way to light a fire.
Craig said that fortunately for years he had carried a small flint on his key chain;and was able to use it and his pocket knife to get a spark enough to ignite a flame.
Without that they would have been in deep trouble as he was already becoming hypothermic.

I don’t recall who rescued them but it was within a couple of days.

The 185 was turned over to the insurance company and was retrieved by a third party hired by them. They waited for the ice to thicken and went in with snow machines to get it out.
Craig said that they used chainsaws and axes to break the ice free at the engine and fuselage.
They then jacked the tail up high enough to pull it over on its back with the snow machines.
When it fell over the vertical fin and rudder took a beating.

They then proceeded to drag it backwards on its back, away from the hole. Somehow later it was turned back on its feet ( I think with the helicopter) and sling lifted back to Lake Hood.

Craig bought the salvage back and eventually restored it. Lots of damage was done during the retrieval; with lots of bent metal ,dents, and axe marks.
Got to help him with the repairs and reassembly. It served him well until he sold out and left Alaska.

Sure miss Craig! Gone west way too soon.

Interesting. Would have never thought of flipping it upside down


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AkTango, Both 180's air back in the air, thanks for covering for Nate in an unpleasant situation.
 
Craig Elg when he owned Regal air at Lake Hood was taking a trapper in his 185 to upper Russian Lake shortly before Christmas several years ago.
The trapper was to use a forest service cabin there.
Craig was concerned about overflow so he made two parallel passes in front of the cabin. No overflow was showing so he landed between the two previous tracks an stopped near the cabin.

He and the passenger were outside discussing where to unload his gear when Craig noticed some overflow showing under the 185.
He got in to move it and as soon as he hit the starter it broke through the ice and fell to the wings.
He said he wasn’t sure if he was going to get out as he could barely open the door due to the ice jamming it.
As I recall he said he had to push/kick it open with his legs and barely squeezed out.
His only route to the surface was through the holes left in the ice by the ski tips.

Craig was wearing Carhart insulated coveralls and of course soaked. All of their gear was now under water.
He and his passenger got into the cabin which had some firewood but no way to light a fire.
Craig said that fortunately for years he had carried a small flint on his key chain;and was able to use it and his pocket knife to get a spark enough to ignite a flame.
Without that they would have been in deep trouble as he was already becoming hypothermic.

I don’t recall who rescued them but it was within a couple of days.

The 185 was turned over to the insurance company and was retrieved by a third party hired by them. They waited for the ice to thicken and went in with snow machines to get it out.
Craig said that they used chainsaws and axes to break the ice free at the engine and fuselage.
They then jacked the tail up high enough to pull it over on its back with the snow machines.
When it fell over the vertical fin and rudder took a beating.

They then proceeded to drag it backwards on its back, away from the hole. Somehow later it was turned back on its feet ( I think with the helicopter) and sling lifted back to Lake Hood.

Craig bought the salvage back and eventually restored it. Lots of damage was done during the retrieval; with lots of bent metal ,dents, and axe marks.
Got to help him with the repairs and reassembly. It served him well until he sold out and left Alaska.

Sure miss Craig! Gone west way too soon.

80 Romeo. As I recall that 185 had over 10,000 hours on it. Craig sold it not long after it was repaired and got a surprisingly good price for it. I rode in that plane a few times, including when Craig helped stuff me in the baggage area with a badly broken leg and flew me back to Hood. Worst flight ever!

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Craig Elg when he owned Regal air at Lake Hood was taking a trapper in his 185 to upper Russian Lake shortly before Christmas several years ago.
The trapper was to use a forest service cabin there.
Craig was concerned about overflow so he made two parallel passes in front of the cabin. No overflow was showing so he landed between the two previous tracks an stopped near the cabin.

He and the passenger were outside discussing where to unload his gear when Craig noticed some overflow showing under the 185.
He got in to move it and as soon as he hit the starter it broke through the ice and fell to the wings.
He said he wasn’t sure if he was going to get out as he could barely open the door due to the ice jamming it.
As I recall he said he had to push/kick it open with his legs and barely squeezed out.
His only route to the surface was through the holes left in the ice by the ski tips.

Craig was wearing Carhart insulated coveralls and of course soaked. All of their gear was now under water.
He and his passenger got into the cabin which had some firewood but no way to light a fire.
Craig said that fortunately for years he had carried a small flint on his key chain;and was able to use it and his pocket knife to get a spark enough to ignite a flame.
Without that they would have been in deep trouble as he was already becoming hypothermic.

I don’t recall who rescued them but it was within a couple of days.

The 185 was turned over to the insurance company and was retrieved by a third party hired by them. They waited for the ice to thicken and went in with snow machines to get it out.
Craig said that they used chainsaws and axes to break the ice free at the engine and fuselage.
They then jacked the tail up high enough to pull it over on its back with the snow machines.
When it fell over the vertical fin and rudder took a beating.

They then proceeded to drag it backwards on its back, away from the hole. Somehow later it was turned back on its feet ( I think with the helicopter) and sling lifted back to Lake Hood.

Craig bought the salvage back and eventually restored it. Lots of damage was done during the retrieval; with lots of bent metal ,dents, and axe marks.
Got to help him with the repairs and reassembly. It served him well until he sold out and left Alaska.

Sure miss Craig! Gone west way too soon.

Interesting. Would have never thought of flipping it upside down


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
Interesting. Would have never thought of flipping it upside down


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Probably because your job is to make them fly again- and flipping it over would create even more work for yourself.

I like the idea of putting ramps under skis and towing it backwards up ramps.

Another thought I had the other day was to take some type of inflatable bag, slide under the wing deflated then inflate. Would work like a jack but reduce the amount of damage. Now, finding two large air bladders...
 
Probably because your job is to make them fly again- and flipping it over would create even more work for yourself.

I like the idea of putting ramps under skis and towing it backwards up ramps.

Another thought I had the other day was to take some type of inflatable bag, slide under the wing deflated then inflate. Would work like a jack but reduce the amount of damage. Now, finding two large air bladders...

No. I like it. Put something on fuselage at lifting eyes to take some of the load and act like a ski. Wings would spread load out nice. Upside down plane don’t necessarily get hurt bad. Had one that didn’t even dent the spinner or break antenna


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I miss Craig too. One of the best I've ever met.

I completely agree with you on that, a great friend and neighbor here in AZ. I will always be thankful that he made room for me to tag along on his last of many ferry flights taking the Beaver from AZ up to AK. That is one of the "Highlight Flights" in my over 50 years of flying.
 
During the late 80s a 185 with a brand new set of hydraulic wheel skis went to the bottom of Two Lakes when the pilot needed a pit stop after having been told by his boss not to land on that lake. That lake is known for having thin spots in the middle of the winter. As far as I know it is still there at 190 feet. I found it with a side scan sonar. It is right side up facing north out near the middle.

Years ago, one of our local pilots (Cliff Larrance) heard about a Grumman Widgeon which had been been sunk in Tin Cup Lake , up in Yukon Territory.
He made several trips up there in his float plane-- over time, he located it on the bottom, snagged it, and winched it out.
His original plan had been to fly it out, as s
upposedly it had been scuttled for insurance purposes & was undamaged.
Nope, it was pretty beat up, so he had it hel
icoptered it down to the nearest road & onto a truck to haul it home.
He was a busy guy, a hard worker who owned a couple businesses,
and he never did get around to restoring it before he passed away at the young age of 55.
Sadly, 15 or so years later, I just saw in the newspaper that his widow (age 57) just passed away also.
 
Rick Fryeburg at SUBSALVE USA. (401) 884-8801 His enclosed salvage lift bags will lift 62 pounds for every cubic foot of air pumped into it. A standard 80 cubic foot scuba bottle will lift more than 2 tons in shallow water. With a bit of effort the smaller bags could be placed in the fuselage and some smaller bags under the wings and secured by the struts. A small gasoline powered compressor like those used for nailguns etc will certainly sufficient air. Grain sacks wilth garbage bags inside and filled with air have been used. One fellow I knew in the early 80s lived on a sailboat he raised with plastic milk jugs taken in to the cabin and partially filled with air, the water pushed out by partially collapsing the jug and capping it to counteract the air expansion from the reduced ambient pressure as it got near the surface.
 
Another thought I had the other day was to take some type of inflatable bag, slide under the wing deflated then inflate. Would work like a jack but reduce the amount of damage. Now, finding two large air bladders...[/QUOTE]

The towing companies that handle big rigs use airbladders to get trailers back upright.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX__8NE_s3Q
 
Years ago, one of our local pilots (Cliff Larrance) heard about a Grumman Widgeon which had been been sunk in Tin Cup Lake , up in Yukon Territory.
He made several trips up there in his float plane-- over time, he located it on the bottom, snagged it, and winched it out.
His original plan had been to fly it out, as s
upposedly it had been scuttled for insurance purposes & was undamaged.
Nope, it was pretty beat up, so he had it hel
icoptered it down to the nearest road & onto a truck to haul it home.
He was a busy guy, a hard worker who owned a couple businesses,
and he never did get around to restoring it before he passed away at the young age of 55.
Sadly, 15 or so years later, I just saw in the newspaper that his widow (age 57) just passed away also.
What a small World! That man called me up one day to talk about raising sunken airplanes. I had a sunken Sikorsky S-39 which I was working on and he heard about it and the T-50 on floats which I also had. He told me that the Widgion had broken off it's bow in the classic Widgeon style which was the cause of the sinking.
 
No. I like it. Put something on fuselage at lifting eyes to take some of the load and act like a ski. Wings would spread load out nice. Upside down plane don’t necessarily get hurt bad. Had one that didn’t even dent the spinner or break antenna

For a cub:
Wouldn’t take much to minimize wing damage. Remove antennas if you can. Two or three of those inflatable sledding inner tubes under the wings and skylight area to skid it on.

Drag it to firm ice, pull the skis and the prop. Cut another hole in the ice under the engine large enough for it to swing through.

Lift the tail until it is standing vertical, pivoting on the leading edge, with engine in the hole.
The wheels must be on firm ice and anchored or tied to prevent sliding, and then pull it over onto its gear. The engine will simply lift up from the water as it pivots over onto the wheels. (Takes lots of help to pull onto its gear this way, or a good snow machine).

Pull it it away from the hole and put it back together to fly or call a chopper.

lots of visquene and a Herman Nielsen heater would be great at this point.

Ive used a similar technique to get a flipped cub on tundra grass back upright. It flew home two days later.
 
The big water toys would work great actually! Those big tubes for multiple folks- slide under the wing and inflate, lift the engine plane strait up, some of those are 3' tall? Get it up the first inflate, block up, stack snow under the wings with a trail path back, and do a second time. Tow both tubes and the plane backwards until skis over solid ice, release air.


Someone try this out and report back... could work good, or cause lots of:oops::evil::evil:
 
Ok. Lots of experience out there. How would or did you get a plane out of something like this?

Oh... and with minimal damage. Give details please as it could really help someone in the future.

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I would pick up Denny McCartney's book "Picking Up The Pieces" he makes it sound almost easy. Bright guy with an interesting life.
https://www.amazon.com/Picking-Up-Pieces-Denny-McCartney/dp/1553696026
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Great guy Craig Elg.... miss him. Worked with him at Lake Hood in the 80's Flew with his Dad Rod also.....good people.
 
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