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Thread: Mead 1430 Amphibs on 11-EX

  1. #41
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    What is the relationship of the individual spreaders in comparison to the step? If one is the same you may have a starting point.
    N1PA

  2. #42

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    When I line the step up side by side…the front deck mounts are about 2” farther forward on the Meads and the rear are almost 7” farther back from the Baumanns side by side

  3. #43
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Oh well, it was a thought. I wish I lived closer to you, it will be a fun project.
    N1PA
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Oh well, it was a thought. I wish I lived closer to you, it will be a fun project.
    It’s a good time of year for the effort…I wish you were closer as well! Thanks for the tremendous help you’ve given from afar
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  5. #45
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I grew up in the UP...this is a nice time of year to visit despite the lake effect weather

    Gary

  6. #46

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    My ew CG is 13.9 (range is 12.9 to 22.7) My Datum is LE of wing. My CG solo with 24 gallons of gas and 20lbs baggage is 14.2 (most common config) with me, 18 gallons of gas, a 175lb passenger, and 20lbs baggage is 17.3.... If i use between 14.2 and 17.3 at shoulder level and swing 10 degrees aft for step placement (I'll use 14.5" for example). The step comes very near to lining up with the lift strut attachment.....proves out in the drawings and I measured a similar installation. I saw pics of the plane Pete mentioned that Clamar setup too far aft on the Legend Cub and you can easily see the step is quite a distance aft of this location. I plan to make my rear strut adjustable as well.

  7. #47

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    here is a side view of a Carbon Cub SS on Mead Floats…note approximate step location…I’d guess with the CC340 180 hp he is more nose heavy than me

  8. #48

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    I found the CubCrafters bulletin on float install on their website. Pages 173-196
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    https://cubcrafters.com/c/wp-content...-Statement.pdf
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  9. #49
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    This may have been mentioned earlier but here's a similar thread from 2009:

    https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...igging-floats&

    Gary
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  10. #50

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    In the Cubcrafters drawing, they show 6 degrees incidence at the chord line....which equates to about 4 degrees to the flat bottom. This illustrates the 10 degree swing from average CG to find step location....around 24"-24.25" aft of the leading edge of my wing

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  11. #51
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Dan,
    The fuselage must be level.
    The angle of incidence of a Cub is about 1.77 degrees.
    Subtract that from the 6, giving you 4.23 at the bottom of the wing.
    That is 1 degree more than my Cub. Your Cub with 100 hp may like the higher number. Just keep in mind you may want to shift it up or down during testing.

    A3310184.pdf (supercubproject.com)
    N1PA
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  12. #52

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    Douten checked his PA11 for me this morning. He has Baumann Amphibs on his….he dropped a plumb Bob from the leading edge and measured to the step… he got 24” ….sounds like a trend…he also has between 4-4.5 degrees from deck of floats to bottom of wing. Thanks Douten!!!!

  13. #53

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    Cutting 6061 material for some fittings…I bought this cool bandsaw jig for my Milwaukee saw…there’s even a little attachment for vertical cutting…my Scott diaphragm brakes need some boosting for the amphibs, so I got some North Rivers…I’m adding a reservoir and some valves to keep them topped off and/or from locking up with temp changes etc.
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    Last edited by Dan Gervae; 03-29-2022 at 09:29 PM.
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  14. #54
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    so I got some North Rivers…I’m adding a reservoir and some valves to keep them topped off and/or from locking up with temp changes etc.
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    I used to assemble and test each unit before shipment. Lubricate the cylinder walls and O rings prior to assembly with a light grease, like Vaseline. Then cycle the piston in and out a few times to ensure free motion. Place a dab of grease between the plunger and piston. There may be slight motion between the two. Also a dab of grease between the pedal and the ball end of the plunger.

    Also be certain the spring is centered in the cylinder. This can be done by placing a Philips screw driver in the output hole.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 03-30-2022 at 07:45 AM.
    N1PA
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  15. #55

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    Put the wear strip back on…getting them ready for the dangling.
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  16. #56

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    I'm trying to do all my research before I put my floats on so I get it right...I am worried about shimmy issues for one....I seem to be missing something up where my shocks attach to the front leaf....there's no way this shock is just supposed to float freely on this bolt....there has to be some pieces of tubing or something to use as spacers....also, my home airport has fairly rough pavement with the annual tarring of the cracks routine....hopefully this doesn't cause problems. I plan to fly it to a nearby strip to practice before I attempt any landings back at home base. There is a 4000' grass strip nearby that is the nicest grass strip in Wisconsin IMO. I hope I can head off any issues by being dilligent and setting things up correctly from the start....I saw a set of Clamars with a teflon "puck" between the front fork and the leaf.....what does this accomplish?....take a look at the attched pic and let me know your thoughts on what to use as spacers in my front shock....there is a ball socket installed, but it can't just piss in the wind back and forth on that bolt.
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  17. #57
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Dan,
    You are correct to question this. One of the issues which effect shimmy on all types of nose gears is excess play at all or just one connection.
    In this case you should use a bushing on each side, made of a material which is not compressible and will not support rust forming between it and the bolt, which is no more than a slip fit. Bronze? Brass? Phenolic? Use a liberal coating of anti seize compound between the bushing and the bolt. Because if the parts rust together, I'll be able to hear your new vocabulary from here.
    N1PA
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  18. #58

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    I got the wear strips on and sealed on both floats now and I have most of the wiring figured out…waiting for my paint to be delivered…there were a few small gouges that needed repair from shipping damage that occurred…I decided to scuff them up and spray them with Stewarts EkoCrylic…Federal Yellow, same as my plane. I connected with a gentleman from Taveres FL that has a set of Mead floats on his CC Sport Cub…it’s been a huge help. He has well over 300hrs on his Meads and loves them. It was such a blessing to have another owner to communicate with. He winters in Taveres and Summers in Bentonville, AR….we are even talking about getting together for some flying. He’s at Sun N Fun now but when he gets home he is going to give me the rundown and take pictures and measurements of his set up…airplane people are amazing….I talked to him 5 minutes and he invited me to come down and fly his Cub to get first hand experience with the Mead setup…what a guy…pilots are awesome! We stick together
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  19. #59

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    I got busy at work and also have been waiting for streamlined tubing for some time now. I got the floats painted…a quick scuff and coat and added some striping. I got the hydraulics fired up and have cycled the gear numerous times. I was telling a buddy that I’ve been waiting for my tubing to come and he asked what size? I said 3”…he says, “I have a bunch of that in my garage”! So, he drops off 18’ of it. Lol. Anyhow. Almost ready to hang the plane and build my rigging. Here are a few pics for an update.
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  20. #60
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
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    Pay attention for any condensation buildup in this compartment. Moisture and electric components don't mix. EDO's 2700 amphib floats had electric motors in the floats to operate the landing gear. There were so many issues of motor failures that they changed to hydraulics. Thus the new model 2705 for the same floats. Ben Wiplinger developed a conversion kit which eliminated the electrics changing to hydraulic.

    A friend had a set of EDO electric floats on his 180 which gave him troubles. One time he had to land in a strange pond after dark with car lights around the pond in Ft. St.John BC because the gear wouldn't go down.
    N1PA
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  21. #61

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    I’ll keep a good eye on it..it has a hatch you can open and check before each flight and after. These marine trim motors/pumps live in bilge/engine compartments on boats pretty well… but you are correct…I must be diligent about it…I do like that when changing over it’s only the brake lines and wire harness to unhook. The floats have all hydraulics self contained. If I don’t like it after some time I could convert to a hand pump inside the cockpit.
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  22. #62
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    Dan,
    Did you ever get them mounted on your plane?
    E

  23. #63

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    I just got the streamlined tubing to do so…I ordered some weeks ago but have not seen it yet. A friend had some so now I can proceed. Right now we are machining all of the end fittings for the tubing and the main gear attach blocks. I’ll hang the plane this week and get to fitting and cutting.

  24. #64

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    I know this plan will add 5 or 6 lbs to my setup, but I’m going to power the pump motor with a lightweight deep cycle 12v battery separate from my main electrical. The cycle time for this gear system is 20-25 seconds as the wheels go down and come up one at a time based on distance from the pump. I will put a throw over switch to my main 12v bus as a backup. Thinking something like the attached: I will test how many gear cycles it will take before going dead. I have a small wind generator and a solar panel for charging.
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  25. #65
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    I just got the streamlined tubing to do so…I ordered some weeks ago but have not seen it yet. A friend had some so now I can proceed. Right now we are machining all of the end fittings for the tubing and the main gear attach blocks. I’ll hang the plane this week and get to fitting and cutting.
    I made my fittings from wood initially, since I expected there may be some changes. Then once I was certain everything was as I wanted it, they were made just once from aluminum. Changes were made. You will be surprised how little differences show up when you think you have it correct the first time. Just a couple of degrees angular difference in a fitting can cause you to tear your hair out.
    N1PA

  26. #66
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    I will test how many gear cycles it will take before going dead. I have a small wind generator and a solar panel for charging.
    When the gear approaches the end of it's travel the electrical loads go way up. With a battery only powering the gear, you may find insufficient power available without having a generator in the loop. Then sometimes when there is insufficient electrical power, it is possible to do some damage to the electrical components. Wirewenie can speak to this better than I. Sort of like driving up hill with a load without downshifting.
    N1PA

  27. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I made my fittings from wood initially, since I expected there may be some changes. Then once I was certain everything was as I wanted it, they were made just once from aluminum. Changes were made. You will be surprised how little differences show up when you think you have it correct the first time. Just a couple of degrees angular difference in a fitting can cause you to tear your hair out.
    Thats the plan, use the table saw, band saw, and jigsaw to mock up the fittings and then when satisfied..machine them from 6061
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  28. #68

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    Noted. I’ve cycled the gear about 50 times with a battery I have in my hangar that I haven’t charged in 2 yrs…my little 8amp B&C probably would be insufficient so I’m going to charge the amphib battery with my 14A wind generator (I think)

  29. #69

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    mocking up fittings
    out of trex. All dangled and cutting struts
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  30. #70
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Just a small tip. Retract the landing gear so the floats are resting on their keels. Then line up everything. You will find it takes very little to move something changing your dimensions, climbing around, over and bumping into. So if the wheels are retracted that will be one less thing which could move. Moving the floats just a tiny bit can change dimensions and angles a lot without you being aware. The plane dangling from a hoist is enough wiggly. You need the floats rock solid on the floor. At least I do.

    Looks good sitting above the floats. You must be getting very excited!
    N1PA
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  31. #71

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    I smashed the ends of some EMT conduit to mock up rigging....punched holes and installed, now I have 2 pieces that need to be machined (front fuselage fittings) which we made of trex plastic as a mock up. getting there....More time into this than I expected. Step positioned at 22" aft of Leading edge, wing 4.5 degrees to floats (bottom of wing). Progress. Now I can cut my streamlined tubing and drill those....fit....then remove and paint.
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  32. #72
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
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    The load path of a strut should be a straight line between the center of the fuselage fitting to the center of the float deck fitting. The load path on your front fitting is passing above the center of the fitting. This is placing a twisting load on your deck fitting rather than a straight line path. The center of the fitting is the center of float fitting where the horizontal bolt holds the fitting to the float.

    The bolt which attaches the strut to your new fitting should be an inch or more aft of it's current location. It's hard to tell the exact dimension when looking at the picture. It could be aft and down a bit.

    This is true whenever designing structural load paths.
    N1PA

  33. #73

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    Front spreader bar is farther forward than my Baumanns by a lot making front strut long and at a shallow angle.
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  34. #74

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    The offset front fitting should align the forces....(i'm an Electrical Engineer not Mechanical) but it looks OK....we had to make this fitting...but it's an exact copy of the Mead factory fitting...I was just missing one. Then the flying wires should help equalize the forces I assume?

  35. #75
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This is what I'm talking about. The dowel represents the load path.

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    Your diagonal is close. I would move the bolt hole a little bit aft.

    The person who designed your Mead fitting needs to go back to engineering school.

    The struts carry compression loads, the flying wires are under tension.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 06-02-2022 at 06:31 AM.
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  36. #76
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Compare the load paths of these two installations. The first one exerts all bending loads on the fittings and bolts except for the one bolt which attaches the strut to the fitting. You can almost picture the first one tearing off in a bending motion.
    The second picture shows all attach locations are loaded in shear. The loads are directed into the float deck where that final fitting is loaded in shear..
    Strength is in shear. Bending is like wet spaghetti with no support.

    . .
    N1PA
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  37. #77

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    I see what you mean…here is a factory install of Meads on a CubCrafters Sport Cub…same thing. There are (4) AN5-33A bolts holding the deck plate through the spreader sandwiched by carbon fiber block. Maybe they tried to account for it some that way….still, what you say applies. Rear 2 deck bolts being forced in tension, front being pushed basically trying to tear deck plate out…but I wonder what the maximum force is as designed…I’ll never know since Phil Mead is dead.

  38. #78

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    struts are made…on to wire pulls. Boy, I have double the hours I thought I would into this. Lol. Plane is all plumb, step is 22” aft of leading edge, 4.25 degrees of incidence between bottom of wing and floats. I should finish before summer ends. Ha Ha….I’ll be at New Holstein for sure…I should have plenty of time for flight testing and tweaks ahead of that.
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  39. #79
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    Keep close tabs on that rear float deck fitting. The load paths for the two struts are nowhere near aligned correctly. I would never allow something like that to be pushed out the hangar door. I though I made that clear to you in post #75 & #76.

    It may not fail due to the massive size of the fitting, no guarantees.

    Look at this one. Click image for larger version. 

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    N1PA
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  40. #80
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This is a better picture.

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    You can fix yours by making a new deck fitting. The struts will not need any changes.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 06-11-2022 at 03:15 PM.
    N1PA
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