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Thread: Convincing the wife

  1. #1
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Convincing the wife

    Is there anyone in the Birchwood/Merrill area that would let me take a look at their PA12 in person?

    I've been gathering info on a future purchase of a Super Cruiser and trying to explain the plane to the wife. Iíve taken her up in 172s, 182s, Cirrus SR20s and such but never in an aircraft where she would sit behind me. She sat in a Husky at the factory and didnít care for the cramped feeling. Iíve told her that the Cruiser is a bit wider at the back seat and maybe a little more comfortable.

    She is here visiting for the holidays and I thought this would be a good time to find one to show her. (I live in Eagle River, she in Colorado) It would only take a few minutes to walk around and if youíre willing, let her sit in it.

    If anyone is going to be doing a little work on their aircraft over the next few weeks and wouldnít mind a visitor or two, Iíd sure appreciate it.

    Mike
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    Convincing the wife

    Hi Mike I canít help you with a walk around of my PA-12 as itís in England, but I can give you something that will probably help you with your convincing

    I flew Joanna in my 12 about 2 weeks ago, sheíd never flown in a light aircraft before and as Iíve been flying single seat aerobatic biplanes the last few years, sheís seen me flying, but never had the chance to join me.

    I gave her the standard safety brief, flew slightly more than a circuit to make sure she was ok and then took off for a longer trip. We landed at another airfield, having shown her some places she knew and as we walked in to the clubhouse to grab a coffee, I asked her how she felt in the air......... ďTo be honest, I was so relaxed and felt so comfortable I almost fell asleepĒ.

    Iíve done various things in my relatively short flying career and flown other first timers in side by side aircraft, but that was by far the best compliment Iíve ever had AND it speaks volumes for the space, comfort and security the back seat(s) of the PA-12 provides


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  3. #3
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Thanks Philly. This will help in telling her about how she can be more comfortable in the back seat. I've also told her that the control stick can come out helping with her comfort.
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    Great news Mike and glad to help

    It works both ways and having flown single seaters and Super Cubs glider towing, I really appreciate the continuity of feel and personal space the tandem seating gives


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  5. #5
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Yes I agree. I first earned my tailwheel endorsement in a Husky A1. Most fun I've ever had flying.

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    Iíve sat in a Husky and laughed at the difference between its full airways panel fit and the very basic Cub panel Iíd been towing with

    The PA-12 panel isnít exactly the Space Shuttle instrument fit either, but I am fitting a Mode S transponder at the moment


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  7. #7
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Yes the new Huskys are very nice. The new Cubcrafters as well. Very fancy. I hope to find a nice solid PA-12 when I get my ducks in a row. One that I can do little work on every now and then when the pocket book allows. If I keep it on Birchwood airport the Airframes Alaska folks are right there if I need help or want to make a big mod to the plane.
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    Makes perfect sense and is just what Iím doing with mine, as youíll see from my various threads in the PA-12 forum


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    My 12 is at Birchwood outside. Give me a call or text if you like. 907-8six2-8zero8six.
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  10. #10
    mvivion's Avatar
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    If your wife is small, have her sit on a cushion. For a short person sitting in the back seat can feel like you’re sitting in a pit, and visibility is limited.

    Also, the back seat moves around more in flight than the front....the front seat sits pretty much right on the center of everything. So, keeping it straight and coordinated in flight helps

    MTV
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  11. #11
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Thanks JRB. I'll send you a text later. At work on JBER right now and cant have my phone on me.

  12. #12
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    If your wife is small, have her sit on a cushion. For a short person sitting in the back seat can feel like you’re sitting in a pit, and visibility is limited.

    Also, the back seat moves around more in flight than the front....the front seat sits pretty much right on the center of everything. So, keeping it straight and coordinated in flight helps

    MTV
    Moves around? The actual seat moves or because the seat is wider the person sitting there could slide side to side?

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    Do you have a dog? There's enough room in a PA-12 rear bench seat for wife and dog, and my wife enjoyed that. Well, unless the dog rolled in fish guts, and then dog goes into the baggage area!

    Have YOU tried on a -12? They aren't the easiest plane for the pilot to get into. Passengers have a clearer path than the front seater.

    A full plexiglass door makes the rear seat view much better. For a passenger who's prone to motion sickness that's a big plus since they can look essentially forward and still see the horizon.
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  14. #14
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Stewart, no dog right now. We are giving our hearts a break after losing the last one, but a new furry family member is definitely in our future. I haven’t tried on a -12 myself yet but, JRB is going to be nice enough to show us his today. I have a few hours in a Husky and have only been in the back seat of a -18 so this will be new. I’m 6’2” and about 220 but I hope some flexibility has carried over from my time in the Army to help me get in and out.

    She is a little prone to motion sickness. One mod that I would like to do once I get a -12 is to do just what you said, full plexiglass door. Maybe two seaplane doors………
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mustache View Post
    Stewart, no dog right now. We are giving our hearts a break after losing the last one, but a new furry family member is definitely in our future. I havenít tried on a -12 myself yet but, JRB is going to be nice enough to show us his today. I have a few hours in a Husky and have only been in the back seat of a -18 so this will be new. Iím 6í2Ē and about 220 but I hope some flexibility has carried over from my time in the Army to help me get in and out.

    She is a little prone to motion sickness. One mod that I would like to do once I get a -12 is to do just what you said, full plexiglass door. Maybe two seaplane doorsÖÖÖ
    Really looking forward to hearing how the 12 test fit session goes


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  16. #16
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Met Mr. JRB at his plane the other day and the wife and I checked it out and asked him a couple dozen questions. He even was nice enough to bring the seat cushions and let her hop in the back. She said she loved it back there. Plenty of room she said. Even room for the future dog buddy. Bottom line, the plane fits.

    Thanks again to JRB for standing around in the freezing cold with us.
    And thanks to Vince who gave us a tour of Airframes Alaska which we did later. He said he saw this thread.
    Merry Christmas everyone.
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  17. #17
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    also consider a 3 place PA-18 fuselage from airframes(very similar to -12), (did they ever get an STC?) or 4 place -18 fuselage

  18. #18
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    also consider a 3 place PA-18 fuselage from airframes(very similar to -12), (did they ever get an STC?) or 4 place -18 fuselage
    Yes, that would be a good way to go, plus it would be a new fuselage free of issues where as a 70+ year old -12 could have several. I guess I need to visit them again and run the numbers against the budget. I have no idea what I’d be looking at.

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    There is an unbelievably beautiful PA12 at Merrill field. Michael S...heís on the back country pilot group...might be here... his hangar is near Danís Aircraft...



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  20. #20
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Thanks Mark.
    I’ll pay attention the next time I’m over that way.

  21. #21
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    There is an unbelievably beautiful PA12 at Merrill field. Michael S...heís on the back country pilot group...might be here... his hangar is near Danís Aircraft...



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    hey! I helped build/finish that one... It's Stewart's old one "SB" here.... and I rebuilt(in 1996) Michael's first one before the river ate it... he's "scooter 777H" or such here

  22. #22

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    Scooter’s plane has full plex doors on both sides. That’s such a great rear seater visibility mod and my wife liked it so much that I duplicated it on my single door Wildcat. Back when I went to Fine Line for the back seat I asked for minimum foam. Doug told me my wife deserved better and made a comfy rear seat cushion in spite of me. That plane is pretty special. And it flies as good as it looks!

    Scooter has his plane tucked into an equally nice hangar. You won’t happen upon it by driving around. Send him a PM. His affection for PA-12s is contagious.
    Last edited by stewartb; 12-24-2018 at 10:46 AM.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mustache View Post
    Met Mr. JRB at his plane the other day and the wife and I checked it out and asked him a couple dozen questions. He even was nice enough to bring the seat cushions and let her hop in the back. She said she loved it back there. Plenty of room she said. Even room for the future dog buddy. Bottom line, the plane fits.

    Thanks again to JRB for standing around in the freezing cold with us.
    And thanks to Vince who gave us a tour of Airframes Alaska which we did later. He said he saw this thread.
    Merry Christmas everyone.
    Fantastic news Mike!!!!! and well done the community for arranging this test fit opportunity!!

    Happy Christmas to all

    Philly


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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mustache View Post
    Yes, that would be a good way to go, plus it would be a new fuselage free of issues where as a 70+ year old -12 could have several. I guess I need to visit them again and run the numbers against the budget. I have no idea what I’d be looking at.
    If your heart is set on a -12? Javron makes a PA-12 replica kit. Build it how you want it in the E-AB category. Starting with new parts and not having to deal with the FAA would be far easier than building the same thing certificated. Maybe buy a 3-place Cub airframe and have Cub AOI. That would be a sweet airplane. So many choices!
    Last edited by stewartb; 12-24-2018 at 01:04 PM.

  25. #25
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    That sounds like a good idea Stewart. I love hangar talk and if it’s his passion too, I’m sure I’ll learn a lot.

    I think my -12 homework load just got larger.
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    I really like Stewartís idea of a Javeron -12. The additional room is awesome and you could build a really awesome performer that would definitely rival an -18. How about an 0-390 on a short mount with the new Airframes STOL flaps!! Do all the best fuselage mods and a big cargo door. Atlee tanks, plexiglass seaplane door etc. like this but better. So many things I wanted to do but had to stay certified.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    PA-12 N418BS
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJC View Post
    I really like Stewartís idea of a Javeron -12. The additional room is awesome and you could build a really awesome performer that would definitely rival an -18. How about an 0-390 on a short mount with the new Airframes STOL flaps!! Do all the best fuselage mods and a big cargo door. Atlee tanks, plexiglass seaplane door etc. like this but better. So many things I wanted to do but had to stay certified.
    WOW!!! The 12 in the pic looks AWESOME!!!


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    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    I see there is a Smith Cub-12 for sale in Eagle River. I don’t know much about Smith Cubs and I guess the owner lives in Eagle River not that the plane is there since we don’t have a strip....... or maybe.
    Experimental category, 220hp io360, skis, on 35s, -300 tt, asking 105k.
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  29. #29
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mustache View Post
    I see there is a Smith Cub-12 for sale in Eagle River. I donít know much about Smith Cubs and I guess the owner lives in Eagle River not that the plane is there since we donít have a strip....... or maybe.
    Experimental category, 220hp io360, skis, on 35s, -300 tt, asking 105k.
    thats not a bad price, compared to having one built to that....(paying labor)

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    Before you fall in love with any plane find an IA that you can work with. Do not fall in love until they say it is OK!!! Nothing worse than paying top dollar for a plane and bringing it to a IA that says it needs 30 grand of work.
    DENNY
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Before you fall in love with any plane find an IA that you can work with. Do not fall in love until they say it is OK!!! Nothing worse than paying top dollar for a plane and bringing it to a IA that says it needs 30 grand of work.
    DENNY
    Make sure you donít find THAT IA


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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    #1 Rule is find someone who is experienced and willing to help the owner/operator maintain their responsibility of aircraft ownership. That's before, during, and after any purchase or mods. Sure, most know that but it's really important.

    Gary
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Mustache View Post
    I see there is a Smith Cub-12 for sale in Eagle River. I don’t know much about Smith Cubs and I guess the owner lives in Eagle River not that the plane is there since we don’t have a strip....... or maybe.
    Experimental category, 220hp io360, skis, on 35s, -300 tt, asking 105k.
    If that fits the budget it may be worth a look. No IA necessary for an Exp but it would be good to get a pro that knows experimentals and -12s. Mike comes to mind.

    If you aren’t familiar with Smith? Their company was sold and changed hands a couple of times and ultimately morphed into Backcountry Supercubs. The quality of an experimental starts with the parts but really depends on the build. There are some that are really good and some that aren’t. Determine whether a Cub guy built it. See if it was owner maintained or had an A&P doing condition inspections. Beauty is skin deep but ugly goes all the way to the bone. Figuring out which applies will be the mission. It’s unlikely an IO-360 makes 220hp. Lycon must have run the dyno!
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  34. #34
    Mike Mustache's Avatar
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    Yes I remember now reading that Backcountry Supercubs once was Smith Cubs. Fits the budget..........well, back to the title of this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    #1 Rule is find someone who is experienced and willing to help the owner/operator maintain their responsibility of aircraft ownership. That's before, during, and after any purchase or mods. Sure, most know that but it's really important.

    Gary
    +1 for this

    Absolutely ESSENTIAL and I wouldnít have had the aircraft Iíve had/have without the engineering and motivational support and steering Iím blessed to be getting from my engineering mentor


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