Hi Supercrow, what do you mean by depending on what you are doing? They should be different angles for somebody flying for pleasure, or for wildlife scouting, or for stol use?
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Performance STOL flap testing
- Thread starter WanaBNACub
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Hi Supercrow, what do you mean by depending on what you are doing? They should be different angles for somebody flying for pleasure, or for wildlife scouting, or for stol use?
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My flap handle is gonna be up like the Cubcrafters one.
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RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
My cub is certified. Still has the original 2 notches, half and full. Handle is shortened as well
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My question: Have a backcountry cub,3” gear extension,29” alaskan bush wheels,thrustline modification.Whilst tail wheel is on the ground the visibility over the nose is not good.My head is almost in the cross brace.With these new flaps is the tail able to be raised earlier on takeoff and conversely kept airborne longer on landing after touchdown for visibility on the ground?
supercrow
FRIEND
Smith Pond near Millinocket, Me
performance stol flap testing
Morning DWM. First off let me apologize for posting that in this thread. Did so before I realized it was about PSTOL flaps. Mine are not. They are large and effective but are a standard style flap. I use 10deg's for slow flight-10 or 20 if heavily loaded for takeoff or landing. Sometimes 20 or 40 lightly loaded in a short pond on floats for takeoff. Landing in a short pond with little or no wind over tall trees I often use 40 for a steep decent with just enough cushion for a short roundout and then add the last 10 which justs drops it right there, right now. Thats very handy in a 15 to 18 hundred ft pond surrounded by 100ft trees. Can usually get down and on in 4 to 6 hundred ft. Coming out I will probably use 20 deg's off the water and hold it until clear-that saves me the 40 for an elevator type cushion if needed going over the trees. In competion at Greenville on floats lightly loaded I always used full flaps for takeoff and MANY 180HP s. cubs could not compete. I obviously didn't try to climb with them but didn't have too. Only had to beat them out of the water. LOL. On skis or 31's I mostly use 20 or 40 for takeoff and landing depending on wind and loading. And am rarely challenged by short fields on skis and wheels. I do have micro vg's and like them and CC's elev. gap seals. Been flying and building cubs for almost 50yrs and I would love to build a new lightweight performer with all the mods but don't have the HP or the money to do so. Sorry about hacking the PSTOL thread, will try to be more careful. Just saw the questions and responded. Reid
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Morning DWM. First off let me apologize for posting that in this thread. Did so before I realized it was about PSTOL flaps. Mine are not. They are large and effective but are a standard style flap. I use 10deg's for slow flight-10 or 20 if heavily loaded for takeoff or landing. Sometimes 20 or 40 lightly loaded in a short pond on floats for takeoff. Landing in a short pond with little or no wind over tall trees I often use 40 for a steep decent with just enough cushion for a short roundout and then add the last 10 which justs drops it right there, right now. Thats very handy in a 15 to 18 hundred ft pond surrounded by 100ft trees. Can usually get down and on in 4 to 6 hundred ft. Coming out I will probably use 20 deg's off the water and hold it until clear-that saves me the 40 for an elevator type cushion if needed going over the trees. In competion at Greenville on floats lightly loaded I always used full flaps for takeoff and MANY 180HP s. cubs could not compete. I obviously didn't try to climb with them but didn't have too. Only had to beat them out of the water. LOL. On skis or 31's I mostly use 20 or 40 for takeoff and landing depending on wind and loading. And am rarely challenged by short fields on skis and wheels. I do have micro vg's and like them and CC's elev. gap seals. Been flying and building cubs for almost 50yrs and I would love to build a new lightweight performer with all the mods but don't have the HP or the money to do so. Sorry about hacking the PSTOL thread, will try to be more careful. Just saw the questions and responded. Reid
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Good morning supercrow, haha no worries! Thank you for your detailed explanation, it is very useful for me too. Cheers!
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In a nutshell. Pstol flaps are a great mod. Slats are a great mod. Long Pstol flaps are pure magic in combination with slats. I can’t speak to slats with stock length Pstol flaps because I haven’t seen a plane with that combination. Power is another contributor. Obviously so is weight. Of the slat/long flap airplanes I know all have lots of power. Not a big factor for coming in but it’s definitely a factor for going out. A guy needs to find the balance that suits him, or adjust his flying to what the airplane does well. Those two things are the riddle that every builder begins with.
Flap use regular or PSTOL should both make the tail lighter. However, tail itself has much more authority when it comes to lifting the tail or holding it up. How do you set your trim for takeoff? Most cubs even with a load can easily blow the tail up with nose down trim and forward stick.
DENNY
Thanks for the reply.Trim is used variably depending on load on Takeoff,on landing trim out the control forces for the lowest speed to flare.Most strips are rough and relatively short average 800 ft.
Thanks Stewartb,I hate to admit it but me thinks you are right.I do like the inflight characteristics of the mount I have, but it is a right arsehole on the ground.I have flown quite a few types of large tailwheel aircraft but never a machine that creates problems like this where directional control is critical.
I always look at the top cowl angle on Cubs in 3-point. Mine is on 6” gear and 35s and the top cowl is essentially level, so the nose bowl top line is level with the boot cowl. That pretty much describes my Cessna’s parked attitude, too. Not that it’s a benchmark or anything. It’s just how it is. I don’t have forward view issues. How does yours look when parked?
A side note- with a lowered engine mount the view out front while in level flight is different. It feels like it’s flying downhill. It takes some getting used to.
A side note- with a lowered engine mount the view out front while in level flight is different. It feels like it’s flying downhill. It takes some getting used to.
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Hi stewartb ,Are you saying lay a level on the top cowl it should show level in the fore /aft.My nose bowl would be approx 2.5 ” higher than the top of the boot cowl in the 3 point attitude
!.To answer your next question the nose bowl measures about 1/4” above the flywheel.I understand your note re lowering the nose cowl, amazing how the brain reacts to change!
!.To answer your next question the nose bowl measures about 1/4” above the flywheel.I understand your note re lowering the nose cowl, amazing how the brain reacts to change!
Brief look through thread, may have missed it but wondered if there was ever a clear answer to if these could work on a CC-EX ? If not directly with modifications prior to covering ?
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Take a lot of modifying to a Carbon Cub from a mounting and actuating stand point. Basically have to build new flaps.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
this is the only picture and no information.
like Steve said some major modifying of the wing. Both flap pivot points are changed, I’d assume beefing up of the wing for the new hinges. I would imagine they are more like a standard supercub.
I'm surprised airframes isnt working on a kit for CC's
Attachments
That wouldn’t suck
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
We just have to look out for them on the Huskys. :lol: Austin will have them in combination with that prop and make up for his long take-offs.
I’m an observer. I think it’s interesting that Mackey and Backcountry have both moved past Pstol flaps. I’ve heard weight is a primary complaint. So is expense, but that gets passed on to the buyer. The Rev 3 flaps appear to give up a tiny bit in landing but improve takeoffs. I’ve watched two planes with the new flaps and they sure seem to work. If Husky would increase the chord on their flaps they’d probably be right up there with Pstol. The same could be said for Cub flaps but adding semi-Fowler tracks would be even better. The development and refinement of flap mods, and coincidentally aileron mods, has been very interesting. Next time you see a Backcountry or Mackey plane look at the chord of the ailerons and flaps. I’m not sorry I have my Pstols but like pretty much any mods we do it’s like what we’re used to with electronics. What we do today will be improved upon very quickly. It’s good for aviation.
FWIW I take off with 3 notches of flaps and full nose down trim. Electric trim helps. It works great with slats and long Pstol flaps.
FWIW I take off with 3 notches of flaps and full nose down trim. Electric trim helps. It works great with slats and long Pstol flaps.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
Ha. I’m guessing “the engine work” that they may be doing right now might help that some
You can't see whats inside, so if you're not cheating you're at a disadvantage.
Your fedex package show up?
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Last time I talked to Wayne Mackey he was having issues with the quality of the Experimental P-STOL flaps. This was quite some time ago and hopefully was rectified but he was pretty frustrated and might be why his recent builds don't have them.
I heard weight and complexity. No matter, the SQs I know being built use his new flap, which is very similar to the Rev 3 flap. They aren’t giving anything up for performance.
My own exp Pstols were a little tight on top where the two parts meet. I had a very slight bind but silicone resolved it and now the painted surfaces have lapped and the bind is gone. I think the clearance is better on the approved version but my hangars and actuators are Backcountry’s own version so that may contribute. Small problem resolved, very happy owner.
My own exp Pstols were a little tight on top where the two parts meet. I had a very slight bind but silicone resolved it and now the painted surfaces have lapped and the bind is gone. I think the clearance is better on the approved version but my hangars and actuators are Backcountry’s own version so that may contribute. Small problem resolved, very happy owner.
Crash Jr.
Registered User
Anchorage, AK
My understanding from Wayne is that the flaps he uses are so long and wide that air pressure on the deployed flaps moves the hangers (and vane pivots) out of alignment with each other which causes them to get jammed. They have to be ordered as two pieces per side and installed like two flaps per wing to let each flap piece move independently. He still uses PSTOL flaps in his builds and there's two sets going out to him right now.
Backcountry doesn't have this same issue though so I'm not sure how they work around that. Possibly extra false spar to spar doublers like Javron. How long are your flaps, Stewart?
Backcountry doesn't have this same issue though so I'm not sure how they work around that. Possibly extra false spar to spar doublers like Javron. How long are your flaps, Stewart?
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
The SQ12 Wayne Jr just got done with has huge flaps and looks like 5 hangars from the video I saw of Big Wayne test flying it. Has the deep cord ailerons that have a very short width.
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