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Performance STOL flap testing

I have to Make sure to give thought to the required takeoff distance before I land anywhere. My little mount is capable of getting in about 75 to 100’ shorter than I can get out. Touchdown it’s in the low 30s, takeoff is in the low 30s, but horsepower required (thrust) to accelerate me to that speed is where I am very limited!
Played in the foothills of the Smokies last weekend, that requirement was made extremely clear a couple of times.
 
Beauty of the 360. I always scratch my head on guys with these big wings and slats then have a ‘pumped up 320’. Cool beans, you can land incredibly short. Then spend a day making more room if any load is wanting to be hauled out. I’ve had both engines, 10:1 320 won’t touch a stock 360 with even a legal prop pitched proper.

Back to the flaps. I’m glad I’m seeing some others with similar touchdown speeds as me with same mods. I was about to head up and start tearing the plane apart. Calling landing in the ‘30’s’ compared to the ‘20’s’ significant I’m going to assume is an understatement. For those of you considering buying these flaps, do it. Won’t regret it. But you better be Johnny on the rudder/power though if you try to hang them out there attempting to fly them to the advertised 25mph. Or be disappointed with a almost 9k investment and find yourself wondering why you didn’t lose the speed you thought you would. Will they land at 30-low 30’s maybe even high 20’s, possibly. But you will be at 2200+ rpms and be looking out your side window, cuz all you will see out of the screen is sky. Which dissolves the purpose of these flaps..my thoughts. Good day
 
Pstol flaps are amazing. In combination with power? Freaking amazing. Lots of SQ videos on Youtube display that. Now we can use flaps for takeoff like we always have in Cessnas. Very cool. Slats are a whole nuther dimension.
 
In all due respect...I have seen cub drivers references to using GPS speeds...why would anyone ever do that 'cept for bragging rights. The airplane flies what's on your IAS indicator. The GPS readout factors in +/- wind. Who cares if your cub is flying at 0 with a 30kt wind? You're still flying at 30! Are you guys flying referencing your GPS readout and not your IAS? Whoa, if that's true!!!
bob turner said:
I can't wait. I am encouraging my Super Cub buddies. I may even do the installation for free.
bob turner said:
I can't wait. I am encouraging my Super Cub buddies. I may even do the installation for free.

Are you using GPS speeds, or just airspeed indicator? We can fly a stock Cub at zero indicated.
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I use both and so do some I fly with. We compare the two to see if and how much head wind or tail wind we have when playing in areas where the wind direction is not obvious. A lot of times you can tell you have a slight tail wind/ head wind etc. Sometimes it isn't as obvious. I like to use all the tools I got.
 
I use nearby water to gauge wind. When slow I don't trust the airspeed indicator to be accurate. For most landings I don't look at it.
 
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I think my airspeed indicator has some error

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Steve Pierce said:
I use both and so do some I fly with. We compare the two to see if and how much head wind or tail wind we have when playing in areas where the wind direction is not obvious. A lot of times you can tell you have a slight tail wind/ head wind etc. Sometimes it isn't as obvious. I like to use all the tools I got.
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This is good... I mean really good when you are down to the nitty gritty.... but as you've already discovered, it's not 100%.
Spraying at night I often hear another pilot on the radio asking his spotter for wind direction, and I just don't get it... I mean if he arrived at his field and sprayed his headland passes first, and then rolled out and set up his field (he just flew the perimeter in four directions) he theoretically *should* know the wind direction and speed....

Trouble comes when you are incredibly slow (not the norm in spraying) or, the wind movement is... because then the vertical component may often match or exceed the horizontal component of the air movement. And that piece alone can screw the pooch on the whole process... Flying is by no means two dimensional....


Take care, Rob
 
The gusts down in the river can get kinda sporty and sometimes the wind changes while we are out playing. Last weekend 3 of us were chasing each other around, all with P-STOL flaps and came to the conclusion they create more turbulence behind them. Flying into the wake turbulence gets pretty sporty for sure.
 
I have spent too many years landing airplanes and flying Vref to ignore the A/S indicator as some claim. However, give me a heads up display with AOA and you can remove the A/S indicator.
 
When it comes to discussing the performance of wing mods. Reporting your indicated airspeed for a cub does Little due to the inaccuracies of airspeed indicator’s at slower speed., A GPS speed corrected for wind speed would be much more accurate. Kind of similar to people saying they can land and takeoff a heavy loaded cub in 200 feet but fail to mention the 20 mph on the nose. I do use my airspeed indicator routinely for all realms of flight however I try not to use it when reporting performance Mods.
DENNY
 
DENNY said:
When it comes to discussing the performance of wing mods. Reporting your indicated airspeed for a cub does Little due to the inaccuracies of airspeed indicator’s at slower speed., A GPS speed corrected for wind speed would be much more accurate. Kind of similar to people saying they can land and takeoff a heavy loaded cub in 200 feet but fail to mention the 20 mph on the nose. I do use my airspeed indicator routinely for all realms of flight however I try not to use it when reporting performance Mods.
DENNY
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Which is why I posted that the P-STOL flaps are hands down the biggest enhancement I have made to my airplane thus far. The 160 hp from 150 and the Thrustline were next. VGs were installed when I bought it. I don't normally look at the AS and I get asked a lot what airspeed do I land at etc. In the end it is all just information processed and used but feel is the most important thing to me.
 
Eddie Foy said:
I have spent too many years landing airplanes and flying Vref to ignore the A/S indicator as some claim. However, give me a heads up display with AOA and you can remove the A/S indicator.
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That works for a true AOA system. I’d be very careful trusting one of the general aviation units out there. They are quite different from airliner/military AOA systems.

And MOST light general aviation aircraft wings offer subtle but easily felt “signals” as they approach critical AOA.

But, whatever floats your boat.

MTV
 
I agree, the Keller flaps are the best mod going. They reduce stall speeds, increase lift for takeoff, and fly flatter approach compared to stock flaps.
Love them.
John
 
flywhatever said:
In all due respect...I have seen cub drivers references to using GPS speeds...why would anyone ever do that 'cept for bragging rights. The airplane flies what's on your IAS indicator. The GPS readout factors in +/- wind. Who cares if your cub is flying at 0 with a 30kt wind? You're still flying at 30! Are you guys flying referencing your GPS readout and not your IAS? Whoa, if that's true!!!
bob turner said:
I can't wait. I am encouraging my Super Cub buddies. I may even do the installation for free.
Click to expand...

Wow my cub must be the slowest flying cub on takeoff. It flys at 0 until the climb out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I know this is an older thread... but would there be any issues installing the P-STOL flaps on an A model?
 
What in particular are you wanting to see. They are going on a complete rebuild that already has the cathedral stringers so will look like a standard 18.
 
Steve Pierce said:
What in particular are you wanting to see. They are going on a complete rebuild that already has the cathedral stringers so will look like a standard 18.
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Ahh, gotcha... Nothing in particular, just curious. I was just curious how the PSTOL would look with the flat back. I intend to do PSTOL's at rebuild and the Flanagan STC for the windows.
 
What is the maximum flap deployment angle you are using and with how many notches do you use in between (and which angle each notch)? We are close to installing the PStol flaps on the Super Cub and we are doubting about the best option. Its gonna have leading edge slats as well (is gonna be registered as an experimental). On the flaps installation manual Airframes Alaska recommends 54.5 degrees max. but I understood that some people use more. What do you think is better?
 
I have 15, 30, 45, and 60°. I have room to go more but the flap handle angle isn’t easy to pull to 60°, let alone past 60° (112” flaps). My original target was 70°. Backcountry is now saying past 50° isn’t worth the effort. I suspect I lose some of my 60° to air pressure blow back so I’ll leave things alone for awhile. With my wings three notches is pretty darn effective.
 
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Hi Stewart, thanks for your prompt reply. My Pstol flaps are 67" each (how could your flaps be so long?! amazing).
So, if you choose only three notches, do you think they'll be 20, 40 and 60 degrees? (loosing aprox. 5 degrees by the wind load in flight?).
 
I think 20-40-60 would work fine as long as your handle angle allows you to pull the third notch. I’ve heard stock length flaps don’t require too much effort to pull. There are guys here with STCd flaps that can comment on that.

You might think about takeoffs and pulling flaps. I think four notches would be worth having since you’ll probably have a hard time getting to 60° in that moment.
 
My flaps are 86" and are 1 and 3/4" longer cord than standard. I have notches at 10 20 40 and 50 degs. All work well depending on what you are doing.
 
stewartb said:
I think 20-40-60 would work fine as long as your handle angle allows you to pull the third notch. I’ve heard stock length flaps don’t require too much effort to pull. There are guys here with STCd flaps that can comment on that.

You might think about takeoffs and pulling flaps. I think four notches would be worth having since you’ll probably have a hard time getting to 60° in that moment.
Click to expand...

So do you think 15, 30, 45 and 60? How much do you pull on the take off run?


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
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