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Nother hypo.

S2D

S2D

MEMBER
Montana
While you're all wondering how many screws I'm missing from the last hypo, I got another one.

Suppose you are a low time AI and think you know a little about Super Cubs. Then one day someone brings in an early 50's PA-18 with a Lycoming O-235 and flaps for you to annual. Since you'd never heard of these you go to the TCDS to see if it's kosher. What do you find?

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Something like this?
As long as your in a mood Brian, what are your thoughts on a 13 rib wing on one side and a 16 on the other?
The 105’s were Tango Cubs, no flaps, although many of these 0235 powered airplanes have been changed due to mistakes on registration applications or etc by unknowing owners, including mine. No amount of communication with OK City can correct it.
 

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I owned a PA-18 SN less than 100 (don’t want to involve current owner in this) 105 Special. Came from the factory with flaps.... I sold it to someone in Anchorage who put an O-320 in it and modified the wings to 16 ribs. Registration now says it is a PA-18-150..
 
cruiser said:
Something like this?
As long as your in a mood Brian, what are your thoughts on a 13 rib wing on one side and a 16 on the other?
.
Click to expand...

Had one around here. FAA really didn't like that. They were ok with 13 or 16
But not one of each. Can't blame them. It got changed.

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mam90 said:
I owned a PA-18 SN less than 100 (don’t want to involve current owner in this) 105 Special. Came from the factory with flaps.... I sold it to someone in Anchorage who put an O-320 in it and modified the wings to 16 ribs. Registration now says it is a PA-18-150..
Click to expand...

It wasn't really a Special . Even if your registration said it was.

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The 105's need flaps if you are going to put on a bigger engine/prop as the trailing edge on the left wing gets hammered to bits. It was constant cracking and repair on the one I had.

Good plane. The 105 Special also had the parachute seat, so it sat a lot lower which was great for us tall in the torso fellers.

sj
 
Ya, can’t say for sure what registration said when I bought it. It was advertised as a 105 Special, so obviously confusion has been around for a long time.. I remember the owner told me 105’s came with flaps and one wing tank, or no flaps and two wing tanks. I don’t pretend to know the differences, and obviously much smarter guys than me still debate this..

And since it was my first Cub, it will always be “Special” to me.......
 
Last edited:
mam90 said:
. I don’t pretend to know the differences, and obviously much smarter guys than me still debate this..

....
Click to expand...

Yea, I got into a big argument with Diggler a long time ago over that cause I'd seen some with Flaps that had Special on the registration. He was right, they weren't "Specials"

But back to the original question, is the AI going to find everything kosher per the TCDS ?
 
S2D said:
Yea, I got into a big argument with Diggler a long time ago over that cause I'd seen some with Flaps that had Special on the registration. He was right, they weren't "Specials"

But back to the original question, is the AI going to find everything kosher per the TCDS ?
Click to expand...

Arguing with yourself?


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I believe there were both 105's, as well as 105 Specials (aka "Tango Cubs").
Buddy of mine has a Tango Cub,
data plate on the front floorboard is stamped "PA-18-105-SP ".
Dunno if they have sequential s/n's, his is 18-243X. (a digit, obviously not x)
 
Mine got changed from a PA-18 to PA-18-105 in the early ‘70’s when a previous owner put that on a registration application, OK City liked it and changed it. In an attempt to correct it I had a conformity inspection done by my local FSDO, he wrote a nice letter detailing where they made the mistake. No joy.
 
PA-22/20-160 said:
At the top of the optional equipment on the TC it says specification pertinent to all models and since the 125 and 105 have the same wing I would just reference the drawing number, but since the factory was installing flaps on some of the early 105’s I wouldn’t waste this much time on it.
Click to expand...

Its only a waste of time if we were assured we'd never have to deal with newby FAA reps that have no idea of the vagueness of the TCDS's. Not everything is black and white.
 
S2D said:
We both know better 8)
Click to expand...
Diggler ( and you know who you are)...come back please.
Enjoyed the contributions he made, he had a lot of Cub knowledge and experience.
Miss TJ Hinkle, also..
Hope all is well with them.
 
hotrod180 said:
I don't see a "PA-18-105" anywhere on the TCDS, only (quote) PA-18 "105" (Special) (unquote).
Click to expand...

There isn't, I guess because it was considered a "PA-18 equipped with an O-235C1 engne"

And this is the only reference I can find in the TC that says its is flap equipped

NOTE 3 Models PA-18 "105" (Special) and PA-18S "105" (Special) are the same as Models PA-18 and PA-18S,
respectively, equipped with the Lycoming O-235-C1 engine, except for modifications specifically for
use in military training. These modifications are toe brakes, no flaps, large horizontal tail surface per
Piper Drawing 12789 and 12790, seats with provisions for seat type parachute, cowl ventilator, revised
battery installation, and other minor modifications. See Piper Drawing 14022. The serial numbers affected
are S/N 18-2214 through S/N 18-2456 and Item 401(n) is required in lieu of Item 401(b) on
Model PA-18 "105" (Special).
 
The drawing numbers must have been added to 601 in one of the 37 revisions, no reason for it,but it makes it confusing. On the 125 and up 601 is required anyway. On the PA18 it was a factory option with the 235 engine. Adding to the confusion Piper sold the first supercubs as 95's or 105's depending on engine. These were not legal model numbers, they were all PA18'S on the data plate, and the numbers actually referred to claimed cruise speed. Any question about flaps being legal on a early 105 are answered in the parts manual where flaps are listed eligible on 105's s/n 18-1 and up. None of the early PA18'S should be confused with the tango 105 special cap Cubs, they are completely different animals. I replaced the original cotton on one for the cap a long time ago and kept it all original so I know what they are, at least as much as I can remember. The first 105 flapped Cubs were great flying airplanes, I don't know if any still exist. There were not many built, and any still left have probably been modified. The world record loop holder was one, think I did a thread back in the day about it.
 
Good to hear from you Mark. Every answer raises another question. Which takes precedence, parts book or TC. Since flaps are listed under 601 and reference a drawing, and they are not listed in the required equipment list, I would take that to mean flaps are not required equipment on a 150 Supercub ??

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S2D said:
Good to hear from you Mark. Every answer raises another question. Which takes precedence, parts book or TC. Since flaps are listed under 601 and reference a drawing, and they are not listed in the required equipment list, I would take that to mean flaps are not required equipment on a 150 Supercub ??

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Click to expand...

The TC is FAA approved data. The parts book is only manufacturer's guidance. Thus the TC is precedent.
If item 601 lists flaps, and the required equipment for the applicable model does not list item 601, then it is not required on the applicable model.
 
46 Cub said:
If item 601 lists flaps, and the required equipment for the applicable model does not list item 601, then it is not required on the applicable model.
Click to expand...

Which brings up the bugaboo about spinners. If it came with it is it required equipment since they aren't even mentioned on the TC.


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S2D said:
Which brings up the bugaboo about spinners. If it came with it is it required equipment since they aren't even mentioned on the TC.


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Click to expand...

If they aren’t mentioned are they required?


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