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Thread: Javron Cub Retirement Project

  1. #1
    cubman's Avatar
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    Javron Cub Retirement Project

    I've launched into retirement with a new challenge - building a Javron cub. I'm a previous PA18 owner and currently fly a PA11.

    The plan is for this project to keep me out of trouble for awhile. I'm looking forward to the challenge and learning A LOT!

    I'll be building in a shared hanger at W&C Aircraft Works in Boone, IA (BNW). Stop by if you are passing through central Iowa.

    The journey begins ...

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  2. #2
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Fantastic and congratulations! It will at times bring you great joy, and at other times great angst and frustration. Remember.....

    it is just a series of problems to be solved......

    If you get stuck...ask for help, sometimes that means paying for help. That is OK

    Build for 90% of your flying

    Try not to focus too much on the end project....that can lead to being overwhelmed....focus on just one task at a time

    You will see every mistake.....no one else will.....don't beat yourself up too much

    You are building an airplane.....not the space shuttle......don't set impossible standards that don't matter

    Weight is everything.....and light weight cost money.....I've never heard anyone say they built it too light

    Try to do a little each day......even if just research or putting an order together.......

    Life will happen as you go....don't get upset.....just understand there will be interuptions

    Don't let your priorities get out of order......family first..(or faith or friends as the case may be)......

    Finally....remember.....this is supposed to be FUN


    Good luck and God Bless....it is going to be a heck of a run....

    If we can help....please ask....we are all pulling for you

    Bill
    Very Blessed.
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  3. #3
    aktango58's Avatar
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    What a great way to move into retirement!

    Enjoy your build. Bill says much sage advice, one I can add- more than one way to skin the cat, some are easier, some come out better. Make yourself happy and enjoy it!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  4. #4
    cubman's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for your encouragement and advice.


    Since I live in Iowa, 95% of my flying will be in/out of established airports, grass farm strips or pasture/bean fields. I’ve been up to the Black Hills with Larry and Clint a couple of times in my PA11 and will do more of those kind of adventures in the future. I hope to fly it to Alaska (ultimate goal). Bill, your AK pictures and videos inspire me!


    My objective is to build a basic PA18 with a few improvements. I selected these options:



    • Stock Width Fuselage (Powder Coated)
    • Aluminum Interior
    • Standard D-Shaped Rear Windows
    • One Door (Right Side)
    • 1-1/2 Axle w/ 3” Extended Gear
    • Upper & Lower Baggage (w/ Doors)
    • Float Fittings
    • Acme Gear Shocks
    • 48 Gal Fuel Tanks
    • O320-160 hp
    • Stewart Systems



    The above decisions mean this won't be the lightest Javon cub ever built, but I will take your advice and pay especially close attention to the weight with future decisions.

    BTW, Jay has been great to work with and is a true craftsman. His kit is fantastic and I am very pleased with the quality. Looking forward to sharing my experiences and getting lots of help from the supercub.org community along the way.



    Randy
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  5. #5

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    Randy, good for you on getting a Javron. Putting all the parts on the fuselage including designing and doing the instrument panel is all the fun stuff. There are quite a few things you can do to keep it light-Bill Rusk and I have have had a number of conversations on that subject. It’s my opinion that the covering is the longest and the most time consuming part of the project. Good luck, and like already stated, if you get into a corner, there’s a lot of experience on this site. Larry v.
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  6. #6
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    Planning is a continuous process. It never stops and, if you've been in the military, you know it never survives first contact. Just remember that the plan evolves as the project does. That doesn't mean that the original plan was wrong.

    Light is good. Don't install anything that you MIGHT need, only the stuff that you WILL need.

    I know the final decision is yours to make but always ask around. Lots of prior knowledge available.

    Couple of questions for you. Why the 1 1/2" axles? It can limit choices of wheels, skis, etc. Why not 1 1/4" axles, then use sleeves if needed. Also, why aluminum interior instead of something like Kydex?

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  7. #7
    cubman's Avatar
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    Kydex vs AL - I read some to the posts on Kydex, but decided to stay with Aluminum. Reasons - 1) Jay has panels cut that will require minimum fitting, 2) unfamiliar working with Kydex, 3) Piper used Aluminum.

    Heavy Duty Axles - My PA11 has 1-1/4" axles and I looked at putting larger tires on it. Per FAA and STC requirements, HD axles are required. I haven't decided which tires I'll use yet on the experimental Javron cub, but want the flexibility to go with Bushwheels or possibly skis with the additional safety margin.

  8. #8

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    Kydex is heavy compared to .016 aluminum. If you want to go light get 3 in heavy duty gear with 1 1/4 axles. You can save 2 1/2 lbs per side with the 1 1/4 wheel/brake setup. It is what the cool pilots use.
    DENNY
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  9. #9

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    Correct me if I’m wrong here but I weighed a 4X8 sheet of kydex and it weighed 6.5 lbs. which is .20 per square ft. Airparts list .016 aluminum at .23 per square ft. So they’re close in weight

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    What thickness was the kidex?
    DENNY

    Edit:
    I found an old post of mikes:
    .016 alclad aluminum- .23# per square foot
    .020 alclad aluminum- .29#

    .028 Kydex- .197#
    .040 Kydex- .281#

    If you used the thin stuff and ran a bead or two in it you could come up lighter. I would most likely run a bead in the .016 aluminum also.
    DENNY
    Last edited by DENNY; 12-11-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  11. #11
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    The light weight Kydex tends to buckle and be wavy, and not lay flat. So it is not as attractive. However, as Mike (MCS repair) has proven you can put beads in it to give it a little bit more stiffness and rigidity and that helps. If you buy the thicker Kydex then yes it is heavier than aluminum.
    Like everything it has advantages and disadvantages. It also depends on the “look”you want to have on your interior.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  12. #12

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    Bill is correct, kydex will get wavy in time, but it is more dent and stuff resistant than aluminum and it comes in different colors, so no painting. On the cub I’m doing now I made a framework out of 1/8 inch Baltic birch and then glued the kydex to it. It might keep it from being as wavy as the first time I used it. Also they are removable if I need to take them out for some reason. No, I’m not a kydex salesmen, I just liked using it better than aluminum.

  13. #13
    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    I’ve been putting a new interior in my 182, and Airtex is using a corrugated plastic board as backing for some of their panels. Going off weights I found online of 700 grams per sq meter, I think I calculated it at .15# per sq ft. I’m planning on buying some and painting to match to see how it looks. Might be a good option for Super Cubs.

  14. #14
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    What thickness was the kidex?
    DENNY

    Edit:
    I found an old post of mikes:
    .016 alclad aluminum- .23# per square foot
    .020 alclad aluminum- .29#

    .028 Kydex- .197#
    .040 Kydex- .281#

    If you used the thin stuff and ran a bead or two in it you could come up lighter. I would most likely run a bead in the .016 aluminum also.
    DENNY
    the carbon fiber interior that came with Stewarts WildcatCub kit was HALF the weight of the Kydex and was buitproof stiff.... I was looking for my notes from that but misplaced it somewhere.... it's in one of the pictures of the build on a yellow notebook...

    the other thing to consider is the aluminum needs paint or powder coating, and that stuff is heavy! and if it scratches looks ugly, where as index is the SAME color lathe way through, so you can just hit it with heat and the gouges mostly disappear

  15. #15
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterHillAg View Post
    ..a corrugated plastic board as backing for some of their panels. Going off weights I found online of 700 grams per sq meter, I think I calculated it at .15# per sq ft. I’m planning on buying some and painting to match to see how it looks. Might be a good option for Super Cubs.
    burn test??

  16. #16
    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    https://www.globalplasticsheeting.co...plastic-sheets

    This says it is a fire retardant, when I figure out how to get some I’ll try a burn test myself.

  17. #17
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Randy told me that the carbon fiber won’t save anything if you use .016. .016 with some beads rolled and covered with fabric is warm and quiet inside.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  18. #18

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    Keep posting as you go. My son and I just started a Javron. I have reread Bill Rusk's posts many times. Jay is excellent and has always been helpful. we did the build school which was unbelievably helpful. good luck along the way.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Randy told me that the carbon fiber won’t save anything if you use .016. .016 with some beads rolled and covered with fabric is warm and quiet inside.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Carbon fiber interior panels are spooky light and crazy tough. And they look great. The point of Kydex is to improve on aluminum for durability and service life without adding weight. Heavy on duty without heavy on the scale. 040 Kydex weighs near exactly what 020 aluminum weighs and is much more durable. My CF panels cut that weight in half, offer great durability, and are rigid so easy to attach with fewer fasteners. CF floors are great, too. Mine are smooth and slick but easy to clean. I like the textured CF floors that John Schwamm had Airglas make for his Husky. Best floor I’ve ever seen in a utility airplane. Really, really nice in the baggage area, especially if you take a dog.

    To the OP, how Piper did it 50 years ago may be your preference but modern materials offer advantages that Piper couldn’t even dream of 50 years ago. CF panels need to be laid up to fit. Kydex can be sheared and bent just like aluminum but the flexibility without memory makes installation easier. And no dents. Ever.

    It’s your airplane. Have fun!
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  20. #20
    cubman's Avatar
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    Spent a few days in Brainerd with Jay. Highlights:

    - Jack screw & trim installed
    - Vertical stab fit and tweaked
    - Rudder fit - Jay has a great tool to ream fittings
    - Horizontal stabs fit and drilled
    - Elevators fit
    - Fuel lines installed
    - Started fitting interior and upper baggage panels
    - False cowl fit
    - Boot cowl fit
    - Started fitting headliner

    Highly recommend builder assistance with Jay.

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