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Just bought my 1st plane, PA-18-150, and looking for recommendations on IFR avionics

mjdonovan

Registered User
NH
Hi,

I just closed on my first plane yesterday, a 1983 PA-18-150. It has a nice VFR panel, but needs an upgraded radio and a transponder with ADSB-out. So, I'm considering putting in the right avionics for addressing those issues, but also making it IFR compliant. Any reasonably affordable recommendations would be appreciated. For the IFR, I was thinking about getting a used GNS 430, but am open to other ideas/newer lower-cost GPS avionics. Also any recommendations on radio and ADSB would be good too. I want to take advantage of ADSB-in, so one idea was getting a Stratus 2 or 3 to go with a Transponder with ADS-B out.
 
Why would you purchase a Super Cub, and want it IFR capable? Most here are trying to figure out stuff to get rid of, to improve STOL capability, which is the airplanes forte in any case.

To be LEGAL to actually operate under IFR (even in VFR conditions) you’re going to have a full suite of instruments, PLUS avionics to meet requirements. That’s a lot of “stuff” to cram into a very tiny instrument panel, plus a LOT of weight. What’s the empty weight of your plane? Do you have the Wipaire 2000 pound gross weight kit? If not, will you have any useful load left after you put all this stuff in?

Find a copy of the Federal Aviation Regulations, and look up 91.205. That section provides the MINIMUM instruments and avionics required for VFR and IFR.

Again, to operate under IFR, even in VFR conditions, the airplane must be IFR certified. That requires not only the appropriate equipment, but a certification by an authorized shop that the airplane meets all requirements.

Bring a checkbook.

MTV
 
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My suggestion to save you lots of money.

Find yourself a Cherokee 180 with full IFR and buy that for when you want to fly IFR.

Keep the cub Simple.

If what you want is the traffic info- Forflight or Garmin Pilot.

If you do want to go IFR- Garmin G-5 EFIS and tie it into a GARMIN GPS; bring your big suitcase.
 
While you’re doing all that IFR flying, I can take good care of your Super Cub, for a very very small fee. Pickup is no charge as well.

Pb. :)


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
While you’re doing all that IFR flying, I can take good care of your Super Cub, for a very very small fee

Pb. :)


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

Everything about you is small, except your heart and smile!

DJ, cherokee is about half or third the price, or about what making a cub IFR would be was my thought. RV's are cool airplanes, fantastic in the hands of Captain Cub and Emalie.
 
Hi,

I just closed on my first plane yesterday, a 1983 PA-18-150. It has a nice VFR panel, but needs an upgraded radio and a transponder with ADSB-out. So, I'm considering putting in the right avionics for addressing those issues, but also making it IFR compliant. Any reasonably affordable recommendations would be appreciated. For the IFR, I was thinking about getting a used GNS 430, but am open to other ideas/newer lower-cost GPS avionics. Also any recommendations on radio and ADSB would be good too. I want to take advantage of ADSB-in, so one idea was getting a Stratus 2 or 3 to go with a Transponder with ADS-B out.

Mjdonovan, now that you know how bad an idea what your contemplating is.....why Don’t you do what I do when I go to get Weilding done local or to the parts store for anything to do with my plane. Don’t tell them what is for, In this case just tell the guys it ain’t for your Cub but for your Cessna, Then maybe someone will just answer your question. :lol:
 
Everything about you is small, except your heart and smile!

DJ, cherokee is about half or third the price, or about what making a cub IFR would be was my thought. RV's are cool airplanes, fantastic in the hands of Captain Cub and Emalie.
You are right. An IFR Cherokee, C-150/152 etc is easy to find and cheaper than a fancy avionics package.

All Cub bias aside, if the primary mission was IFR, I would be choosing something other than a Cub. And for the same money there would be a lot of options. Of course he was asking for opinions on avionics not airplanes...oops.
 
Mjdonovan, now that you know how bad an idea what your contemplating is.....why Don’t you do what I do when I go to get Weilding done local or to the parts store for anything to do with my plane. Don’t tell them what is for, In this case just tell the guys it ain’t for your Cub but for your Cessna, Then maybe someone will just answer your question. :lol:

His question was answered: 91.205 gives him the answer he asked for.....the minimum.

MTV
 
The way I see it if you are gonna make a Super Cub IFR with a 430 you are gonna need a bigger panel like Cub Crafters has the STC for. Makes me think of the customer I had who had flown twin Cessnas a lot and bought a IFR Husky. Had to file in flight once and got put in a hold. Said it was the pits hand flying that thing. I flew a less than 1100 lb Super Cub today that I had installed Performance STOL flaps on. Way more fun than flying instruments. 8)
 
Interesting thread. I've never flown a PA18. I use to fly a friends J5A-75 which is how/why I joined this and the J3 the forum. I haven't flown IFR in 40 years so I wasn't going to reply since I have nothing to offer. But I did read his question and my first thought was,

I fear this gentleman just purchased the wrong airplane.

OTOH I hope he starts flying the S... out of it. I trust he may decide it's a great ride for what it does best.

Jack
 
First, didn't we do this before? Isn't the PA-18 certified before the feds decided to give VFR certs? My J-3 can legally fly IFR if I merely add a couple gyros and a navigation system. My Decathlon cannot, even though it has a full gyro panel and an ILS receiver.

If I were going to do a Super Cub, I would first research the new flat screen attitude and HSI units. I would couple the HSI to a simple nav receiver. My favorite is the KNS -53 with glide slope. I would put a 2" venturi on the airplane for an old vacuum turn and bank. In place of the 430, I would use a Garmin handheld that can be programmed for a horizontal flight director - the old 295 does that really well.

I am used to fancy stuff - I hold an Airbus type, and have flown a Cirrus. For my money, a 430 is far too complex for single pilot IFR, unless you practice every single week! I do not like the 430, or for that matter, the earlier 300 series. If I study the night before, and practice before engine start, I can make the 300 series sit up and talk to me - but it requires way too much attention to do while in the clouds without an autopilot.

Yes, I stay current in the Decathlon. I shoot no gyro approaches in it. It is not legal for in the clouds.
 
If you all look back at the MJDONOVAN history you will see he has said he is a 100 hour pilot flying a skyhawk with no location noted. He just may have been trained in a full IFR aircraft in the lower 48. So that is what is he is used to. MOREBETTERDISEASE is kicking in!! IFR in Alaska with a cub is rough due to ice so we all just stay low. I put a expensive digital horizontal gyro in my cub just in case I turn into the wrong fog ban. So I can't say he is wrong for wanting a better panel. I would say just fly it for a year or two and see just what you really need!! In the meantime if you need a IFR plane rent it.
DENNY
 
mjdonovan, Are you instrument rated? Are you planning to use your Cub to get your instrument rating? Do you really believe that you will be flying your Cub enough on instruments to maintain proficiency? Chances are that you will never fly your Cub enough on instruments to maintain a safe proficiency level. With this in mind there is no need to have your Cub "certified" for IFR flight. For the average private pilot to maintain instrument proficiency, he has to put forth a great effort to intentionally fly IFR. Don't install any more equipment than you will need to get yourself out of a tight spot.
 
Cub Avionics

I have gone with the Trig TY91 for VHF, Trig TT21 Mode S Transponder with ADS-B Out capability. (Steve Pierce is an approved dealer)

Very interested in a Garmin G5 just to keep the ship right side up if you loose the visual horizon.

Personal iPad for nav assistance/avoiding restricted airspace, complete with approved USB charger socket in the panel.

That is probably too much but certainly would not even think of looking into full IFR capability.
 
I fly my PA-18 with some frequency IFR. It is no weather airplane as there is no pitot heat, but for getting on top of an overcast or descending through overcast, yeah, it works fine. I do not know where mjdonovan lives, but if he were coastal CA or in the Southeast it might make sense for him.

I would recommend a Cub Crafters square panel. I use a Garmin GNC420W, an L-3 Lynx NGT 9000 and an Aspen Evolution Pro. A word about the Aspen, make sure your back up AI is really solid, because if that Aspen looses a single input, be it pitot, static etc the whole damn thing shuts down.

As for keeping current that used to be really easy because I flew professionally. Now I use a sim to stay IFR current and it works fine.

Here is my set up.

IMG_1038_zpsjymsdtso.jpg
 

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I live in the Northeast so IMC is the norm. In 5 years of flying my full IFR Husky I can count on one hand the number of times I have flown it IFR. The plane is a handful IFR. The Husky is somewhat more stable than a Cub..
In 6 months of C180 flying I fly IMC regularly without a thought. The spam can is a stable platform.
Get the proper tool for the job at hand.
If you need to fly in the system or IMC get a spam can. The Cub is more fun.




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I suspect our new cub owner is thinking of working toward his IFR rating with his newly acquired cub. If that is the case I am not sure he could find someone to do that instruction from the back seat.
 
This fellow is getting some good advice I think. I really enjoyed getting an IFR rating, well worth doing. Renting an IFR airplane and keeping current though, ultimately became hard to do money and time wise. Plus there was actually no place I needed to be where we couldn’t drive or bail on a commercial flight. That rating ran out, but, just the same, no regrets getting that rating. At present, relying on good preflight planning, is the only thing available to maintain level flight in our Rans S-7 because the panel is bare bones. Never been totally comfortable with not having instruments enough to do a 180. That’s going to change because Spruce is sending a Dynon D3 (ships Dec. 1st). From what I can tell, this brand new D3 (not the dozer) should be an excellant instrument to have for anyone like me with bare bones panel.
Roddy
 
I recently looked very hard at what I feel was one of the nicest SC's I have seen in a long time. Full IFR, heated pitot, 180HP, Garmin 430, Cub Crafters panel and every other CC mod available. The idea of getting all that high dollar 'stuff' seemed like a good idea at first. After thinking about it, I felt it is just added weight and i personally didn't like the square panel in a SC. Personal maybe, but the plane just felt different.
Plane is very low hours since rebuild but was only run (not flown much) 14 hours in the past 14 years. After a lot of good advice on this site and speaking with a well know engine guru, I have put the purchase on hold. Time is great to allow a guy to really take a break from the riggers of buying and gave me time to think things over more in depth.
I do not need an IFR SC and as mentioned, don't feel it is an economical or smart decision. If I did end up with this particular SC, I would probably remove a lot of the equipment that I have no need for. I have done it to two previous aircraft I have owned and don't regret it. I have a box in my hangar that is 30+ pounds that I removed from my 172 years ago.

The advice given of getting a different aircraft for IFR and the SC to play with seems like very sound advice.
 
OP throws a grenade and 20 plus volunteers fall on it. I'm guessing he isn't getting the answers he wanted to hear.
 
I'm not an IFR pilot, but it seems pretty easy to make a SC IFR-capable.
Not necessarily a good IFR trainer, or even a good IFR platform, but IFR-capable? Yes.
I've seen plenty of SC's that already have "FGP" (full gyro panels, aka vacuum horizon & DG).
The OP's planning on upgrading the radio & txp anyway--
instead of a com radio, get some whizbang GPS/com that's both en route & approach capable,
and the required periferals (indicator with enunciators).
 
WWH - fly that sucker before you buy it. They are quite heavy - if it is in rig, you will think you are flying a 185 Cessna, except the Cessna has better flaps. Sure, it will go darn near straight up, but all the other nice parts of the Cub are overwhelmed. Look for a light 160 and spend the extra bucks on Keller flaps.
Opinion.
 
Everyone keeps talking how heavy and IFR Cub is, mine is 1133. Not bad for all that stuff.
 
Hi,

I just closed on my first plane yesterday, a 1983 PA-18-150. It has a nice VFR panel, but needs an upgraded radio and a transponder with ADSB-out. So, I'm considering putting in the right avionics for addressing those issues, but also making it IFR compliant. Any reasonably affordable recommendations would be appreciated. For the IFR, I was thinking about getting a used GNS 430, but am open to other ideas/newer lower-cost GPS avionics. Also any recommendations on radio and ADSB would be good too. I want to take advantage of ADSB-in, so one idea was getting a Stratus 2 or 3 to go with a Transponder with ADS-B out.

Let's all just eliminate the platform for these instruments, just for a moment. He asked about getting 'IFR compliant'. I'm going to assume (uh oh) that he means becoming IFR legal and not just capable. Please read 91.205 (d). This is a list of all equipment, including instruments and avionics, required for IFR operations. Surprisingly, very little about redundant nav and com units. I'm sure I'm not the only one that was always told that you needed dual navs and coms to be legal. Keep in mind, while reading this section, that this equipment needs to be certified. In other words, all the cool portable stuff that does work, is not legal for these purposes. Some of the instrumentation requirements can be combined into one or two units to save space. And nowdays, most of these functions are available in electronic units such as the G5, instead of mechanical gyros, saving lots of weight.

So, making any aircraft IFR legal is doable from the equipment standpoint. In a small aircraft, all needed equipment needs to be the smallest and lightest available in order to fit into a reasonable sized panel and not eliminate any useful load. This leads to cost. Lots, and lots of cost. Another phrase from the original post was 'reasonably affordable'. Sorry. Aint gonna happen.The cheapest route would be to use older radios/instruments/gyros. But this wouldn't fit into a small panel and could turn you into a single seater. So that leaves the new light weight electronic stuff, which leads to the 'bikini principle'. I.e. the smaller the bikini, the more expensive it will be.

NOW. Lets talk about the platform to carry these instruments. I've set up smaller aircraft, such as C 172's and even C 150's, to use as IFR trainers and they work out pretty well. Low cost airframes with engines that just sip fuel. But I still wouldn't recommend intentionally flying them into weather and they are more stable that a PA 18. Buy a good com for the PA 18 and fly the wings off it. IF and only IF you absolutely need the ADS-B, find a small system such as the Trig stuff and install it. Then stop! A Supercub is an outstanding platform for flying in and out of fishing holes and sandbars, or landing on your neighbors garage roof. But setting it up for IFR work (even just for training) is like riding a two stroke dirt bike cross country on the interstate. It might work but nobody is happy when the trip is done.

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