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Thread: Trend of machine design trying to protect, or think better then humans?

  1. #41

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    Regarding the debate of stick and automatics the change in technology demands the auto for reasons of economy and maintenance. Most engines are turbo charged now. Imagine flying a turbo charged airplane at altitude with the waste gate mostly closed. Then you yank back the throttle, then run the throttle up again. What happens to the turbo? Spin down, spin up, MP surge. Add in things such as variable guide vanes etc and you get the picture. The exhaust flow of an automatic is continuous and unrelenting on the turbo. There is a reason why high performance cars such as Ferrari, and trucks such as Peterbilt are all going to automatic transmissions. It is the best way to keep the turbo spun up for steady and precisely regulated power that delivers the best fuel economy. It is no accident you put two F-250 turbo diesels on the drag strip and the auto will win each and every time.

    Now that all said, I landed the other day in the mountains of NC and tried to rustle up transport. The line man said, "I'll loan you my car, it is an old Kia, can you drive a stick?". Heck yeah.
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  2. #42
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    Reminds me of the last time I rented a Penske tractor. It had been a few years since I needed one and I went to start it up and looked at the agent and said ďwhere the heck is the gear shift??Ē He laughed and said oh there all semi-autos now. Let out the clutch from a dead stop and all 10 gears auto shift from there.
    Talk about learning a new way... took about 200 miles to figure out that the truck responded the best if you drove it like a rookie. Just put the pedal on the floor and leave it there. I assume the long haul OTR drivers appreciate having two good knees.


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  3. #43
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    I disable the auto stop/start first thing when I get in my truck, I just can’t buy into that being fine. I’ve went all my life understanding that the start and stop is the most critical time for an engine, and now we’re supposed to be fine with it going through that at every stop sign?

    Even if it does contribute towards reduced fuel consumption, my guess is any money saved in fuel will be spent when replacing the starter and/or other engine components prematurely.

  4. #44

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    As explained to me the modern permanent magnet, brushless starter is bullet proof. Cycles really don't hurt longevity. As for the engine, modern synthetic lubrication is such that there is good protection during shut down and startup. We have to think differently about lubrication on airplanes as we cannot use synthetic lube and that thought process carries over to other engines but that was before synthetic lubed, close tolerance engines. Some of these new engines run on 0W-20 for instance. On these close tolerance engines with thin oil hydrodynamic conditions occur almost instantaneously. Otherwise they would not be able to run these thin oils.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Thanks Peter, I think that I shall leave it alone as I don't like the idea of messing with computer code. I don't even notice the horn. Unlike Mark_Moyle I kind of like the locking tail gate. Judging by his picture I understand the lack of his need for a lock. I have a neighbor who is an EMT working for a busy fire department who tells me that for some reason F-150 tailgate are high on the theft lists. The lock prevents this.
    One of the first things I do when I buy a truck is to jam a trailer tongue into the tailgate. None stolen so far.
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  6. #46
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I took the 180 out for a bit today and I was thinking about this thread. It appears that I have managed to put all of the technology out of harms way....
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  7. #47
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Dern good looking panel right there now Mr. Johnson.
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  8. #48

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    When UPS takes 10 seconds to hand me a package, they shut off. I don't doubt they are data driven, I just wonder if their insurance co has a say.
    When did starters go brushless?
    What's a go-around?

  9. #49

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    Rudders? Those pedals on the floor? An airline pilot friend of mine, once told me my floatplane flew out of rig! I said "No, you've forgotten what your feet are for!"
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  10. #50
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    I've been reading this with a lot of interest. THings have changed so much in agriculture in the last 25 years makes you wonder what can be next. GPS steering is commonplace today, not too long ago it was gee whiz.
    One of the biggest chores for us during the growing season is spraying fungicide on potatoes. We use 2 Deere 120ft boom ground sprayers. There are a couple different companies developing drones that will leave a docking station with 10 gals of fungicide, go to the field programmed , apply an ultra low rate, return to the dock station for a recharge of batteries and another load. All day all night. I asked the sales guy how will the drones avoid the A cub flying coming and going
    Simple his response , you do have ADSB, correct?

    We always enter a national corn growing contest. He who is biggest wins by state Our corn seed sales guy got on his companies access to real time sat pictures and did some density studies of our cornfield plant populations and told us to pick this field. 278 bu/ac is crazy good for Msine

    last month we had a Customs and Border patrol Cessna 206 crashed on takeoff from a local airport. They had refueled at 2 am, then departed, 100 ft the engine quit and crashed straight ahead into a forested swamp and wiped it out

    by morning the place was swarming with lots of black cars and guys in dark sunglasses. They removed something from the crash but you couldn't even ask about it. They flew a helo up from Langley VA full of guys to get their stuff. No one is sure what was removed, other than one of the under guys said they were tracking a bad guy up the east coast. This thing had some unbelievable spook equip in it. The guy said you would not believe what we can do today, the intelligence
    technology is just beyond belief I guess.

    technology. Making us old guys sputter since Henry Ford

    jim
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  11. #51
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    I recently had a steering question with my new car. While the mechanic supervisor was test driving it he told me that soon the transmissions are going to be tied in with the GPS. They will automatically know the slope which is approaching so will not shift into a higher gear only to have to down shift going up the slope.
    N1PA
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I recently had a steering question with my new car. While the mechanic supervisor was test driving it he told me that soon the transmissions are going to be tied in with the GPS. They will automatically know the slope which is approaching so will not shift into a higher gear only to have to down shift going up the slope.
    Volvo semi trucks with auto transmission have that GPS/Transmission feature. Picks gear based on grade & Weight of cargo. Even takes weather into account for traction control. Will advise driver if grade is unsafe due to limited traction related to weather. Good use of technology in my opinion.
    I learned to fly using maps, I’m glad I know how to use them, but glad I don’t have too anymore.
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  13. #53

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    Youíll never remember your grandkid not getting hit by a car with smart sensors and automatic braking but youíll remember when they get hit by a car without that technology. Both drivers probably had cell phones in their hands. Donít lie, youíve done it, too. Yep, itís a new world.

    Anchorage had black ice roads and freezing rain yesterday. I watched lots and lots of new cars with traction control and anti lock brakes go into the back of other cars or into the ditches because all that tech ainít worth dukey without basic traction devices... winter tires. Meanwhile my truck with traction control and anti lock brakes got around easily with 4 studded tires. Tech can help but people can still find a way to negate it with stupidity.
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  14. #54
    Chicken Hawk's Avatar
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    I remember when studded tires was “new technology”. Lot of stupid people crashing cars then too.

  15. #55

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    As my late friend David McRae told me after using his iPhone for directions the first time, "I never have to think again".
    Being able to do complex math with a computer is great. Knowing why it's giving you the answer it's giving is better.
    I took a supplier for a Cub ride one day. Afterward, he had to drive his new Ram pickup home with lights flashing and alarms going off because it thought he was about to run into something. He cleaned the sensors and nothing was damaged, just a bad sensor.
    Technology is great, I use it every day. It would be much better if there was a way to bypass the technology to get home. Then maybe new trucks wouldn't spend so much time behind a tow truck.

  16. #56

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    junk!!

  17. #57

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    Actually it goes beyond traction control, GPS shifting. My car has all those and the cruise control will slow the car based on conditions and curves ahead. I have V2V, vehicle to vehicle communication, which takes into account all the conditions like equipped cars see ahead, warns the driver and adjusts the vehicle accordingly. Not many cars so equipped but I have on two occasions been warned of slippery conditions ahead and received a suggested speed. If it were on cruise control it would slow automatically. It sounds like overkill but once you start having autonomous vehicles on the road, you're going to want to know when one has a guidance failure so you can get out its way.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Hawk View Post
    I remember when studded tires was “new technology”. Lot of stupid people crashing cars then too.
    Stupid never goes out of style.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
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    What's that bungee cord about?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  20. #60
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    My buddy who moved from NYC to up here buys $1000 of new tires every fall for the up coming winter. I run tires till the cords start to fray. I drive every day even if it snowed 3' the night before. He can't figure out how thats possible. Learn how to drive buddy!

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  21. #61

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    From a first post of high tech topics right down to being stoked about runnin bald tires in 3’ of snow.
    (Did that in the past but have since woken up). Hopefully the neighbours know your schedule, that way they can stay warm by the fire while you do a grocery run lol. Turn your porch lights on when you get back then they know the coast is clear.
    Roddy

  22. #62
    Coulee Clipper's Avatar
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    One of my favorite cars to drive is a Model T. Not fast, not safe, but itís sure fun. Best part is you donít have to worry about someone stealing it.


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  23. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    What's that bungee cord about?

    hold the sectional.
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  24. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    From a first post of high tech topics right down to being stoked about runnin bald tires in 3’ of snow.
    (Did that in the past but have since woken up). Hopefully the neighbours know your schedule, that way they can stay warm by the fire while you do a grocery run lol. Turn your porch lights on when you get back then they know the coast is clear.
    Roddy

    had a newer brand tire on my 3/4 ton dodge, 20,000 miles, the cap came off it and went up past the passenger window, i thought what the hell. junk. went back to firestone transforce at2s, hearing they went back to a better quality rubber in them. dont be proud of anyone on new tires.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 11-13-2018 at 11:13 PM.

  25. #65

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    With the recent snow fall out east here we get to see how all this great technology in today's vehicles works. Not to well from what I see.
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  26. #66

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    The question is not how it works. The question is how do you use it properly.

  27. #67

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    the question is do you need to use it or do you want it.

  28. #68

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    Turning it off is certainly one of the "proper uses". However, not all systems can be turned off. For instance, anti-skid braking, or panic stop assist. In that case, you better use them correctly. i.e. do not pump the brakes with anti skid systems.
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  29. #69
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    The only constant across generations of people in a world that’s seen rapidly advancing technology since the industrial revolution is that old men complain about change. As younger men they embraced it. To me that defines getting old better than the number of years does.
    That's because we have the advantage of hind-sight and experience now. I strongly disagree that all of this technology is good. Sure lots of things are great. I had the first Apple IIE and loved it and I keep on top of most technology; but do I want to have my engine shut off without my command? Accelerate into another lane without a command, decelerate when you need to speed up? That's for incompetents; and I totally disagree that this has lowered accident rates, It may have ameliorated the incidence rate, which has no doubt increased due to lack of driver training and disrespect for good conduct. The problem is that we are teaching people to push buttons, but nothing about how they achieve the desired task. Most every electronic actuator performs a manual function that could easily be accomplished without adding the electrical component. For example, simply pushing a lever that controls the temperature in your car.

    In my view semi-automatic systems are the most dangerous, because like the SFO crash, no one's quite certain who's actually in charge. Seems like that may have happened with the 737 Max. As for flight training, how can you teach a new pilot to be RESPONSIBLE for the care and condition of his aircraft when most trainers don't have cowls that open up. I don't care if jets don't have leaky exhaust gaskets, or frayed spark plug wires - it's not the detail its the discipline! That's my curmudgeonly view.
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  30. #70

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  31. #71

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    As far as snow goes the model T with its skinny tires and soft clutch engagement was the go to winter vehicle in the hinterlands of central PA. That lasted until the second hand Willys Jeeps and surplus military jeeps replaced them.
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  32. #72

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    The curmudgeon view ends when the boss parks the latest Whizz Bang 2100 out on the ramp and says the technology involve will reduce fuel consumption by 8%. Then you better open the books and learn how to the automation works and learn how to use it efficiently. Checked out enough 727 guys on 767 to know how that mop flops.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    First of all the "stick pusher" on the B737 is not new. As aircraft go even the new 737 Max is not very sophisticated, certainly not on the scale of an Airbus. Stick pushers have been around for 50+ years. Airbus has for several years had procedures for dealing with a faulty stick pusher which reflects in my mind a higher level of consideration as to dealing with errant systems. I think after AF447 Airbus realized they had to "amp their game" in this regard. Boeing seems a little behind and Asiana does not seem to be as seminal for Boeing as AF447 was for Airbus.
    I wasn't familiar with AF447 and had to do some reading. Wow! Basically the junior co-pilot just sat there with the joystick pulled back and wondered why they were sinking. Just letting go - even with the AP inop- would have saved it I think. I would assume those big birds have a fair degree of trim stability, yes? More than anything, I think that was another case of a highly "educated" pilot who didn't understand the fundamentals of flight. Coupled controls would have been a good thing right about then.

  34. #74
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Along for the ride..
    . Ohh that's funny.. it never did that before. Did you hear a noise, like a thump?

    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/euro...-belfast-could

  35. #75
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    I had a new ram biggest POS Iíve ever had, when it sense wheel spin in the snow it would apply the brakes and limit throttle. Seemed to work when you needed throttle and no brakes. I have a 2000 f250 diesel and a manual. It has power windows. thatís about all the frills it has and I love it.


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  36. #76

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    last of the somewhat useable vehicles was 2004, ever since its been a downhill plunge. Ford in the late 90s had a 7.3 powerstroke that was bulletproof, good auto tranny, but they couldnt stand the thought of using a international motor so they went with there own, most know that was disaster.

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    last of the somewhat useable vehicles was 2004, ever since its been a downhill plunge. Ford in the late 90s had a 7.3 powerstroke that was bulletproof, good auto tranny, but they couldnt stand the thought of using a international motor so they went with there own, most know that was disaster.
    Mines got the 7.3 and a 6speed manual


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  38. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I had a new ram biggest POS I’ve ever had, when it sense wheel spin in the snow it would apply the brakes and limit throttle. Seemed to work when you needed throttle and no brakes. I have a 2000 f250 diesel and a manual. It has power windows. that’s about all the frills it has and I love it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    And how many vehicles over the past few decades, when one front tire starts to lockup on snow, all the brakes get shut off. I removed the 60 amp fuse from the ABS in my truck a decade ago and the brakes are great in all conditions ever since.

    I did get rear ended in town last year, a damn hit & run, it was dark out at the time. The cause was I drive on Hakkapeliitta snows while very few other people have any thought to proper tires yet think they can drive in the winter conditions we get here. Wish I could have seen how smashed up their car was cause I know how tough mine is.

  39. #79

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    Gramp's 73 Buick was hit by an early Civic. He wondered if the Civic would be totaled, but he didn't even go to a shop, and Grandma was particular. Anyway I've removed the instrument cluster from 3 different makes of cars and pickups and poked out the piezio buzzer soldered to the backside. Takes 30 minutes, they're all built the same. Sick of city concerns driving everything. Remember the carjack doorlock thing?
    What's a go-around?

  40. #80
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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