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Thread: Fit in the back??

  1. #1
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Fit in the back??

    I am looking at getting my SE Sea rating at Brown's.
    I can do it in a J-3 or a PA-18. I am 6' 4" and 205. Will I fit in the back of a J-3? I barely fit in the back of a Supercub.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Ursa Major's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    I am looking at getting my SE Sea rating at Brown's.
    I can do it in a J-3 or a PA-18. I am 6' 4" and 205. Will I fit in the back of a J-3? I barely fit in the back of a Supercub.
    I'm bigger than you and I did it in a J-3 It was a tight fit, not very comfortable, but doable. Biggest problem was feet on rudders. Not a lot of room for size 14 shoes!

  3. #3
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Spend the extra money on the Super Cub, your kids don't need the inheritance.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  4. #4
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    It's not the money. My goal is to bounce a check on the day I die! I wanted to do it in the J-3 because I haven't flown one. I rode in the back of my PA-18 once and my head was bumping the overhead.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Spend the extra money on the Super Cub, your kids don't need the inheritance.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    If you're going dual you'll be up front either way unless you just want to sit in back.
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  6. #6
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Will Ware, who started J3-cub.com was over 6'7 and 250+ and flew from the back seat with sz15 shoes
    Scott R, at your biggest in the back seat?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  7. #7
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I think since you are going for a rating and the examiner will be in the front, all rides are in the back seat in the J-3.
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    If you're going dual you'll be up front either way unless you just want to sit in back.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    PIC can be in either seat in J 3. Not much headroom aft, and not much legroom up front, though. Oh, yeah, then there’s the headache rack up front, otherwise known as the wing spars.

    MTV

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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I know that but every video I have seen of a Jack Brown student has them in the back. Makes sense to me since that's where you have to solo it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    PIC can be in either seat in J 3. Not much headroom aft, and not much legroom up front, though. Oh, yeah, then there’s the headache rack up front, otherwise known as the wing spars.

    MTV
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    I know that but every video I have seen of a Jack Brown student has them in the back. Makes sense to me since that's where you have to solo it.
    Any videos with a pilot of your non-FAA standard size?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    PerryB's Avatar
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    Do it in the 18. I suppose there is a certain amount of nostalgia to be claimed with the J3, but the 18 beats the pants off it with any considerable load, like floats and two people.

  12. #12
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    From J3 site



    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  13. #13
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Floats in FL you can fly bare foot too. And you don't have to worry about reaching the brakes
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  14. #14

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    I flew at Jack Browns back in June. Instructor sat in the front.

    Very light J3, 2 up, full fuel, high temperatures, the performance was no problem.

    Some of the best flying I have ever done. You will love it.
    Last edited by Damien; 09-27-2018 at 06:49 AM.
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  15. #15
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    J-3 or PA-18 ?
    You are there to learn how to fly floats, not for a thrill ride. Use the J-3, the one with the smallest engine. Your purpose is to learn the techniques which are involved with handling a seaplane. If you use a higher horsepower airplane you will launch out of the water without having time to understand just what is happening. With the lower power you will need to finesse the controls finding the optimum positions of the floats in relation to the water. Horsepower will launch you into the air, proper technique will get you out of trouble later on. Learn the techniques. You can try the PA-18 later.

  16. #16
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Just a bunch of fat, short, bearded guys!



    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Any videos with a pilot of your non-FAA standard size?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  17. #17
    nanook's Avatar
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    When I got my SES, it was in the front seat of a PA18. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to do that from the back seat of a J3... When the instructor got out and the 250lb examiner got in, you wouldn’t have got the thing off the water with an 85hp.

  18. #18
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Pete,
    I agree completely!



    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    J-3 or PA-18 ?
    You are there to learn how to fly floats, not for a thrill ride. Use the J-3, the one with the smallest engine. Your purpose is to learn the techniques which are involved with handling a seaplane. If you use a higher horsepower airplane you will launch out of the water without having time to understand just what is happening. With the lower power you will need to finesse the controls finding the optimum positions of the floats in relation to the water. Horsepower will launch you into the air, proper technique will get you out of trouble later on. Learn the techniques. You can try the PA-18 later.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  19. #19

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    With the SES rating you can jump into a 185 or 206 on floats. Nothing about the back seat of a J3 is important. If you want to explore floats with low power, go to a big lake and use reduced power for taxiing and takeoffs. But in the big scheme of float flying that part is pretty simple for a pilot to learn and understand.
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  20. #20
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    It would be incredibly boring if we all thought the same way. They are 100 hp J-3s and the FAA designees are all named Brown.


    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    When I got my SES, it was in the front seat of a PA18. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to do that from the back seat of a J3... When the instructor got out and the 250lb examiner got in, you wouldn’t have got the thing off the water with an 85hp.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  21. #21
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I rather doubt that anyone will let you "jump" into a 185 or 206 with a fresh rating and 6 hours in a Cub. I am doing it because it will be fun, it will count as a BFR, and I haven't flown in a year. Plus I just want to fly a J-3!
    I doubt that I will ever use the rating.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    With the SES rating you can jump into a 185 or 206 on floats. Nothing about the back seat of a J3 is important. If you want to explore floats with low power, go to a big lake and use reduced power for taxiing and takeoffs. But in the big scheme of float flying that part is pretty simple for a pilot to learn and understand.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  22. #22
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    When I got my SES, it was in the front seat of a PA18. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to do that from the back seat of a J3... When the instructor got out and the 250lb examiner got in, you wouldn’t have got the thing off the water with an 85hp.
    You just proved Pete's point. C85 is a hotrod, they did it for years with 65hp or less

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  23. #23
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    .......and I haven't flown in a year. ........
    ??
    Didn't you just buy a 180 or 185 fairly recently?
    ??
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    Eddy, I did my SES at Brown’s in one of their 100hp J-3s and I’m 6’4” and certainly a bit heavier then you. Worked just fine and was a hell of a lot of fun! I’ve been back a few times just for the fun of it when I’m down there.
    They set me up with a skinny instructor for the front seat and then John was my examiner. I would do it again in a second and the only down side for me was my knees would get a little sore by the end of the lesson. Still the only J-3s I’ve flown and there was no lack of performance.
    Jon
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  25. #25
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Yes. It became a project. Currently in many pieces. I am on the Christmas card list of ABI, Aircraft Spruce, and Tropic Airpower. Also Garmin and Electronics Internatonal.


    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    ??
    Didn't you just buy a 180 or 185 fairly recently?
    ??
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  26. #26
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Glad to know someone else is supporting the aviation vendors. Keep up the good work!

    As Pete says, the J-3 is a great teacher, albeit an O-200 and Aqua floats are kinda cheating.....nevertheless, whichever seat you’re in, you’ll have a blast. Which, in the end, what it’s about.

    And good luck on your project.

    MTV
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    If part of the practical standards test involves "docking," I would choose the airplane that is easiest to get in and out of.

    Also, if the J-3 doesn't have a starter you might be required to hand prop it and climb in.

    If you don't have one already you should get a copy of the Practical Test Standards.

  28. #28
    algonquin's Avatar
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    I never had the chance to fly a Cub on floats and look forward to doing so. The big HP float planes ,as stated, hop off the water and I think it keeps you out of trouble but it takes quite a while to learn the fine points. Have fun.

  29. #29
    PerryB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    I never had the chance to fly a Cub on floats and look forward to doing so.
    You'll enjoy it, I'm sure. I did my SES in a light '12 with flaps, a 135 (290-D2) and a Borer 82-41. It was on Edo 2000's and a delight to fly. A very good performer.

  30. #30

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    I did my SES at Browns in 1995 and try to go back there any time I can - which is every time I am in the US and Florida is an option. I have flown other planes on floats - 12, 18 and 20 and done advanced courses, but that first SES rating with Jon and Chuck really sticks out in my memory. I am not quite 6’ so either seat of a J-3 is no problem and I keep a J-3 for whenever I want to fly cheaply just for the fun of it. My 2cents is go there, use the J-3s (you do fly from the back but that’s part of the fun, like hand propping from the float) and you will not regret it


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
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  31. #31
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    J-3 or PA-18 ?
    You are there to learn how to fly floats, not for a thrill ride. Use the J-3, the one with the smallest engine. Your purpose is to learn the techniques which are involved with handling a seaplane. If you use a higher horsepower airplane you will launch out of the water without having time to understand just what is happening. With the lower power you will need to finesse the controls finding the optimum positions of the floats in relation to the water. Horsepower will launch you into the air, proper technique will get you out of trouble later on. Learn the techniques. You can try the PA-18 later.
    Exactly.

    Do you want to boast you have a SES, or learn to fly floats?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  32. #32
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    It's quite obvious that you don't know me. Still want to punch me in the nose?

    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Exactly.

    Do you want to boast you have a SES, or learn to fly floats?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  33. #33
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Yes. It became a project. Currently in many pieces. I am on the Christmas card list of ABI, Aircraft Spruce, and Tropic Airpower. Also Garmin and Electronics Internatonal.
    Upgrades / mods can be a slippery slope.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  34. #34
    aktango58's Avatar
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    A reminder, there is a difference in flying floats when your power/weight ratio is low: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwlodvWh7w

    Yes, a Beaver has lots of power, but when loaded it takes some precision to get her off smoothly.

    And if you overload:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpmzZX7-VtA

    And on landing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPSjBPAlMQ
    Last edited by aktango58; 09-28-2018 at 10:43 PM.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  35. #35
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    The pilot's perspective on the Helio:

    https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/...bethel-alaska/

    Note the change in direction, gusts, then the lack of wind on the water surface just prior to impact. If the plane was dirty climb rate would be poor.

    Gary

  36. #36
    aktango58's Avatar
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    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  37. #37
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    The pilot's perspective on the Helio:

    https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/...bethel-alaska/

    Note the change in direction, gusts, then the lack of wind on the water surface just prior to impact. If the plane was dirty climb rate would be poor.

    Gary
    Them big draggy things under the plane take lots of room when loaded to the gills! You can see the slats go in, then come back out-then the plane begin it's descent. A little less load and things would end different.

    Load: Pilot, four hunters with personal gear... plus fuel. 200 lbs per person, 200 in fuel, and "150" in gear, (hmmmmm). That is #1150.

    Sometimes technique won't help, you need more lake, wind, or less load; maybe all three. But good technique will make it easier on you and the bird when operating within it's limits.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  38. #38
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Plane was dirty and the wind slowed or changed relative direction. They are famous for getting airborne but not climbing well until cleaned up. And PK floats...whatever.

    Have a look at the lake when departing (0:30) vs behind the hunters when they are toasting their survival (1:50). Not much wind in the lee of the trees. Slats never stayed in.

    Gary

  39. #39
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    A reminder, there is a difference in flying floats when your power/weight ratio is low: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwlodvWh7w
    Draging tha tails without ever finding the sweet spot which would allow it to accelerate.

    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Did not use proper glassy water landing technique. Landing down hill into glassy water one needs to pay close attention.

    Both of these showed ignorance of one's airplane procedures.
    N1PA

  40. #40
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    J-3 or PA-18 ?
    You are there to learn how to fly floats, not for a thrill ride. Use the J-3, the one with the smallest engine. Your purpose is to learn the techniques which are involved with handling a seaplane. If you use a higher horsepower airplane you will launch out of the water without having time to understand just what is happening. With the lower power you will need to finesse the controls finding the optimum positions of the floats in relation to the water. Horsepower will launch you into the air, proper technique will get you out of trouble later on. Learn the techniques. You can try the PA-18 later.
    To add to this is if you are really planning to use the rating, choose a place/person that spends a lot more time teaching you the techniques (mostly when manuvering/docking on the water and in wind, take off, landing, etc, is easy). I was required to have 15 hours for insurance and it was well worth it - and I did it in a plane I already new so none of that time was wasted learning a new airplane. Also, if you are even considering amphibs, get training on them - not for the "off water" work which is like driving a shopping cart, but because the gear work is really important. We've all seen the videos of folks that forget the gear.

    If you just want the rating and to have fun, then Jack Brown's is the place. Just like the PPL being a "license to learn", so is the SES add on.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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