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Thread: Lightweight VHF Radio and Transponder

  1. #1
    kiwicubber's Avatar
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    Lightweight VHF Radio and Transponder

    Looking for suggestions for types of lightweight certified VHF Radio and transponder for fitment to a Super Cub. Can be either panel mounted or remote mount with panel controller. Also looking for any recent bad experiences.
    Bill and Neroli.
    www.supercub.co.nz

  2. #2
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Becker or Trig.

    Web
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  3. #3
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Should expand on that.

    On Cub type panels, stay away from 'square radios'. These panels were not designed for the cutouts or the weight of the radios. Both Becker and Trig have small avionics that fit into the panel just like a 2 1/4" instrument. Just three or four screws and no trays. This also simplifies the installation of the wire harness as you'll spend less time upside down under the panel installing the harness to the tray and the tray to the panel. Just plug the connector to the radio and secure it.

    I've had very good experiences with both of these brands and highly recommend them.

    Web
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    FdxLou's Avatar
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    Neroli
    I had a Becker Comm and Txp in my Cub. Loved them. No experience with Trig.

    Lou
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  5. #5
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I’ve got the trigs in my cub, and love them.


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  6. #6
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Web, I'm planning my panel now on my rebuild and would like to set everything up over the winter. Can you recommend a transponder / ADS-B set up for minimal compliance and cost? I already have a good Becker 4201 Com and am thinking about the transponder requirements for ADS-B compliance. I am thinking of using a Trig TT22 transponder and Uavionix Skybeacon. However Skybeacon says it can be used 'with any mode C or S transponder' so does that mean I can pick up a used mode C Becker and still be compliant? There's something else to do with class 1 or 2 so I'm not sure.
    Do you see any less expensive way to set up for the ADS-B compliance starting from scratch? Maybe best to just equip with a good transponder for now since almost all of my flying is out of ADS-B required areas.
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  7. #7

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    Trig comm and transponder, the remote mount can be seen under the right side of the panel. They weigh less than a pound each. The intercom function of the comm has worked flawlessly, even with the door open. If you want to do ADS-B out, Trig has a light weight unit that is compatible with their transponder.
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    ….Maybe best to just equip with a good transponder for now since almost all of my flying is out of ADS-B required areas.
    FWIW if most of your flying is out of ADS-B required areas,
    I think it must also be out of transponder required areas?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  9. #9
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Agreed. If you don't require a transponder now, you'll most likely not be required to have ADS-B.

    Kiwi - When you say 'certified' what are your local requirements? US FCC approved, TSO'd, full STC packaged kit?

    Web
    Last edited by wireweinie; 08-22-2018 at 02:18 PM.
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  10. #10
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    Web, I'm planning my panel now on my rebuild and would like to set everything up over the winter. Can you recommend a transponder / ADS-B set up for minimal compliance and cost? I already have a good Becker 4201 Com and am thinking about the transponder requirements for ADS-B compliance. I am thinking of using a Trig TT22 transponder and Uavionix Skybeacon. However Skybeacon says it can be used 'with any mode C or S transponder' so does that mean I can pick up a used mode C Becker and still be compliant? There's something else to do with class 1 or 2 so I'm not sure.
    Do you see any less expensive way to set up for the ADS-B compliance starting from scratch? Maybe best to just equip with a good transponder for now since almost all of my flying is out of ADS-B required areas.
    Units like the Skybeacon or the GDL 82 use the existing transponder and piggy back a signal onto it's output. But do your homework before you start spending money. Carefully read the specs called out in 91.225 and 91.227 AND the related TSO specs. There are minimum power requirements for using an existing transponder. And if you plan on flying outside of the US your system needs to operate on 1090 mhz. 'UAT' systems such as the Skybeacon transmit on 978 mhz. This is legal only in the US under 10K.

    As far as the installation/interface procedures go, you need to find out if the system you wish to install has it's own GPS WAAS position sensor or if it requires a signal from another source. Also some UAT's interface with the transponder electronically through the transponder antenna. Other units require the transponder coax cable to be routed through the UAT. Still other units use RS 232 data lines to interface with the transponder.

    --THERE IS NO SINGLE WAY TO BUILD AN ADS-B SYSTEM--

    As to your specific question of using the TT22 and a Skybeacon; No. The TT22 is an 'extended squitter' transponder. That means that it is interrogated on 1030 mhz and transmits on 1090 mhz (and at 250 watts which is Class 1) . It also incorporates the extended squitter message with all the required information for mode S and ADS-B. The only thing it requires is a GPS WAAS location signal to make it fully ADS-B out compliant. You can use any certified, GPS WAAS signal for this purpose as long as it can be sent to the TT22 on a data line (RS 232). If you want to stay small, Trig has a WAAS unit called the TN-70 for just this purpose.

    The Skybeacon is a UAT unit that transmits on 978 mhz. It also has a built in GPS WAAS position sensor. When installed it puts the extended squitter message and the GPS position onto the existing transponder's signal. That makes that system ADS-B legal in the US, at 10,000 feet or under.

    For most Cub type installations, I usually recommend the TT22. Not the cheapest but one of the most compact setups. If you never fly outside the US, a mode C Becker and a Skybeacon will work fine.

    Web
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  11. #11
    kiwicubber's Avatar
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    Hi Web, the aircraft is certified and I don’t want to go the experimental way. Our rules for experimental are a bit more strict than US rules anyway. The radio could be certifiedTSO’d or under an STC.
    I think we have settled on the Trigg. Will be good to have them front and centre on he panel
    Bill and Neroli.
    www.supercub.co.nz
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  12. #12

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    I put the Trig TY91 into my PA12 6 weeks ago. Just made a panel to cover the hole left by the King unit it replaced. Connected the new cables to the existing ones to test and then chased all the cables back to their roots.

    Works beautifully, built in intercom fantastic and overall sound quality brilliant.

    Highly recommended

    Philly

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  13. #13
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Thanks Web for helping to clear that up for me. I was thinking with the Trig TT22 and a WAAS GPS that you would still need some sort of ADS-B out device but you've answered that question. I think that's the way I'll go.

  14. #14
    kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    The Skybeacon is a UAT unit that transmits on 978 mhz. [...] That makes that system ADS-B legal in the US, at 10,000 feet or under.
    Web, very good post. I have one question. It is my understanding that 978 out is legit up to 18,000 ft, not just 10,000 ft. The 10,000 ft limit is where some form of ADS-B out will be required if above 2,500 AGL. Am I mistaken? The 978 options are much cheaper for retrofit of an airplane already equipped with a mode C transponder.

    Also, 1090ES lacks anonymous mode. I understand that if the government wants to get you, they will. They do it now with mode C and less. However, ADS-B makes it far too easy for nosy neighbors, competing carriers and others to track people when they have no business doing so. IMHO, the lack of anonymity with ADS-B was a major mistake and it will cause people problems. Not everyone, but it will get some people who felt they had nothing to hide.

    Thanks!
    --
    Bearhawk, RV-4
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  15. #15
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    You are correct, Sir. I got my numbers turned around in reverse. Read 91.225 (b) as it calls out 978 or 1090 mhz units for airspace 18,000' MSL.

    Thanks

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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