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Odyssey Battery Woes

wireweinie said:
How did you verify that the master relay closed?
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The silence suggested it did not. ...insufficient voltage from the battery in spite of voltage being good doing the previous flight (that it had been hand propped for)

I'm sure that if I had access to the electrical system, there are quite a number of things i could have done to get the alternator running.

My bad. You mentioned replacing an EarthX and I made the assumption that it was in this aircraft.
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No biggie.

i am quite satisfied that the failed lead-acid battery was diagnosed and fixed/replaced. I was just trying to make the point that all of these things can fail and single data points prove little.
 
mike mcs repair said:
You weren’t getting any output out of your charging system you were only running off battery.
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...had full voltage on prior couple of flights after hand propping and turning on the master. Had full voltage at shutdown when we got it home. A few days later, when it was time to deliver it for servicing, the battery was a good door stop and not so good at closing the master relay.

The simple act of changing the battery could have cleaned the bad connection. Just because you can get power out of a battery does NOT mean you can push power back into it if you have a dirty connection. Or a hung up brush or wore out one.
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I'm not going to say this is impossible, but in general, a bad connection does not act like a diode. If power flows one way, it will flow the other. We had a couple legs getting home where we flew and shut down with full voltage and electrics, but the battery was unable to start the engine a short time later.

When we got it in for service, the alternator was inspected and found to be fully functional. The certified, lead-acid Concord battery was found to be a door stop.

If I recall approximately correctly, it went from working "fine" to a door stop in 2 taxi starts and one flight home? The leg to service after that it was no good. It had to be hand propped for all but maybe one taxi start early in the sequence.

Number 2. Just because you hear a relay close, does not mean it is internally making a good connection
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In the end, the relay didn't close: climb in the airplane, flip the master and nothing but the sounds of silence. No relay. Not even a chance to try cranking with the battery.
 
kestrel said:
I'm not going to say this is impossible, but in general, a bad connection does not act like a diode. If power flows one way, it will flow the other. ..
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actually VERY common... and is STEP #1 of troubleshooting charging problems is to remove and clean ALL connections in circuit..
 
Easiest way to check for high resistance of master or start solenoid is to use a voltmeter.
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Agreed, and as I know you'd point out, same for all of the segments of the circuit. I'm just a little shy of working too close to a moving meat-grinder.:smile:
 
Windy,
How are your engine and starter grounded? The braided ground strap that bridges the engine mount is notoriously unreliable. (this suggestion in addition to all the other great suggestions)
 
mike mcs repair said:
actually VERY common... and is STEP #1 of troubleshooting charging problems is to remove and clean ALL connections in circuit..
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I'm not sure what your point is. The alternator was bench tested and found to be operating correctly. The battery was bench tested and found to be a door stop. The battery was replaced and everything works fine now.
 
Mike, I think he's asking about directionality of resistance at connections, rather than the mere existence of resistance. I too would be interested in how that might work.
 
mike mcs repair said:
I'm done, you answered your own question, but you missed it... good luck
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The disconnect may be that I didn't post a question, other than those attempting to understand your comments. I posted a point that, with example, that certified lead-acid batteries also fail. Additionally, they can do so rather suddenly and completely. It sounds like Lou's EarthX failure gave more warning than my Concord failure.
 
I remember being a motorhead teenager. We'd diagnose battery issues by jumping the engine. If it would run with the battery disconected the charge system was okay. If it wouldn't jump start with the battery connected and connecting the battery killed a running engine? The battery was bad. The magic behind it wasn't a concern. Making it run was.
 
I've been working on things with motors for myself and others for over 50 years. Most folks replace the battery or starter when things don't work. But in my experience over the years 80% or most times things fail to turn over it is just corrosion or a loose conection.

Glenn
 
I'm not sure how several streams of conversation about Earth-X ended up on this thread? The first of them was a reply from me to context from a different thread. It would have arrived here on this thread after I hit "reply with quote" on the other.
 
My early, non aviation specific, Earth X is still working great but now it's in my ATV. When the new generation ones for planes came out I decided they were worth upgrading to, even though the first one worked great, winter and summer, one deciding reason was my ATV needed a battery! My 12 year old Oddysey is also still working fine, but is not in a plane, but is used for other small tasks that require a portable source of 12 VDC.
 
Odyssey batteries are not as good as they were 5 years ago or so.well.... the non-TSO ones anyway. I used to put them in all my bikes and off road rigs & have had 3 failures in 4 years. all right at the 2 year mark, which is coincidentally the warantee period. the days of expecting them to make 7-8 years are over. the guys at Battery Specialists said the ownership has changed hands and they no longer use the virgin lead.
 
"But in my experience over the years 80% or most times things fail to turn over it is just corrosion or a loose conection."

Glenn[/QUOTE]

I agree, and a large percentage of electrical issues end up being a bad ground--which is also a bad connection.
Bad connection--battery doesn't get charged, engine won't start, fancy lights won't flash, lights that aren't supposed to flash, now do...
 
...alright just did my 9th annual inspection with the same SBS J16 installed. Didn’t even bother charging it before the annual and it tested at 216 CCA out of an original 220 CCA.
 
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There is a temperature correction that should be applied when floating at lo temperatures. For 12v nominal batteries it is between .018V to .030V per degree C, depending on vendor. That's a full volt or more reduction at 0 deg F, as the standard batt chg Temp is 77F. Pretty sure I have lost batteries from floating at lo temp with cheap maintainers with no temp correction.
 
NDRII said:
...alright just did my 9th annual inspection with the same SBS J16 installed. Didn’t even bother charging it before the annual and it tested at 216 CCA out of an original 220 CCA.
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My J16 is going on 11 years old. Am curious how you figured the CCA of your battery--did you use a newer style resistance tester? I bought one for my cars and am trying to figure out if it's accurate on the J16.
 
I use this Carbon pile resistance checker from Harbor Freight. Looks just like the more expensive one Matco sells.
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aviationinfo said:
My J16 is going on 11 years old. Am curious how you figured the CCA of your battery--did you use a newer style resistance tester? I bought one for my cars and am trying to figure out if it's accurate on the J16.
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At the recommendation of a guy who works with this stuff for a living, bought the below. His testing found it to be consistently within +/- 5% of his $1000.00 calibrated bench monster. It’s close enough for my needs and has already found 2 other batteries starting to deteriorate before real signs. https://www.amazon.com/BA7-100-1200-Electronic-Battery-System/dp/B0015PI7A4
 
I was asked how I check the Hawker battery with this load meter. The Hawker SBS J-16 is a 16 amp hour battery. You turn the knob to three times the Amp Hour (AH) or 1/2 the Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) and hold that for 15 seconds at which time you get a beep and you look at the DC volt meter and it will give you the battery condition. A brand new SBS J-16 will show 10.6-10.8 amps. There is a scale to factor in temperature as well.**

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I just got my second SBS J16 from Spruce. The first one they sent had good voltage but when my friend checked the CCA, it was only 100. That was after I used my Battery Minder for Odyssey on it too. Sent it back and this one is where it should be. They must make a few bad ones.
 
I have two PC-545 batteries - two years old. One shows signs of weakness, but it could be the ground strap - I haven't checked. The other just did its 72nd start since last charge. That is good enough for me.
 
Oddsey 680

QUOTE=bob turner;733867]I have two PC-545 batteries - two years old. One shows signs of weakness, but it could be the ground strap - I haven't checked. The other just did its 72nd start since last charge. That is good enough for me.[/QUOTE]. My 680 lasted 4 years. It says on the top of battery has to receive 14.2. Put a digital meter on buss bar And to ground. Put the meter between your legs and go flying. Mine was not putting out the 14.2. had to land and a just regulator 5 times. Puts out 14.6 and 6 years later it's like new. If you have wood or carbon blades shut down with mag kill only. If you have high compression it will wing thru the compression like it wasn't there. Good for 3 hours in the summer time.
 
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