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K2 Beaver Fatal accident at Denali

Hazy or foggy conditions especially when over open water or snow covered terrain create visual perception issues for all pilots including experienced ones. Experienced pilots often rely additionally on other information in addition to visual ques
 
reliableflyer said:
Hazy or foggy conditions especially when over open water or snow covered terrain create visual perception issues for all pilots including experienced ones. Experienced pilots often rely additionally on other information in addition to visual ques
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So, would a 100 ft range CHEAP radar altimeter aimed down and forward help these situations?
 
Well, if you’re going straight down, what’s the point? What would be a usable range? Connected to a proximity warning horn, of course...
 
Monday morning quarterbacking. For all we know, we honestly know nothing about this particular incident.

Granted we derive ideas of as of what MAY have happened and what could be done in the event of those hypotheticals. This thread is about 5 people who died, maybe possibly in a bad way.
 
mvivion said:
The weather on that mountain can and does change very rapidly. Just because you get caught in weather doesn’t imply you launched in weather.

Lets wait for the accident report......

MTV
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This is so true, and why armchair quarterbacking really is of little use in this situation. You can see a viz/weather change in just one turn around Mountain House.
 
nanook said:
You can climb through a ceiling and stay over the valley towards lower terrain. The terrain/topo page on the GPS will keep you over the valley towards lower terrain. Alaska has been accurately mapped many times over by aircraft and satellites. We are using GPS to fly approaches in mountainous terrain. You would immediately revert to the terrain page if you lost forward visibility. You fly on the instruments with reference to the terrain page. You don't assume that you know where you are going, you verify that you know using the GPS. The only GPS signal loss lately, has been due to the military jamming the signals. You could also have equipment failure...
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To that, there is currently a gps-jamming, “Red Flag” exercise going on now in AK. Started on the 8th, I believe, and goes until tomorrow (24th).
J
 
I have been saying for some time now that the NTSB is obsolete because of the internet investigator's.
 
mit greb said:
I have been saying for some time now that the NTSB is obsolete because of the internet investigator's.
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The NTSB is becoming obsolete due to its own inabilities. Keeping political people off the NTSB, would be a good start. How about the current head in Alaska, accepting a position on the Iditarod Board! What’s next, a run for office?
 
A high profile person with a safety background is good for the Iditarod. There's certainly no conflict with NTSB responsibilities. Clint has been extremely helpful when I've called him about accidents that took friends. He and his team have earned my respect.
 
stewartb said:
A high profile person with a safety background is good for the Iditarod. There's certainly no conflict with NTSB responsibilities. Clint has been extremely helpful when I've called him about accidents that took friends. He and his team have earned my respect.
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I would have to disagree, the NTSB has become so slow to respond, by the time they get done... Where is the certainty that it doesn’t conflict with NTSB responsibilities? The Iditarod has become more about making money for Anchorage than overseeing a dog race. The best thing they could do for the Iditarod is to move it away from the “high profile” clowns running it from Anchorage...
 
Tradition? Tourists and kids like it. Me? I preferred the same day restart at Iditarod Headquarters in Knik and jumping around between all night bonfire parties up the Yentna to Skwentna. When they changed to the next day restart they ruined that. When they moved the restart to Willow? Worse yet. Good for Willow, bad for everyone else. But for the most part it's all about media coverage, not spectator participation. Not my circus, not my monkees.
 
mghallen said:
Monday morning quarterbacking. For all we know, we honestly know nothing about this particular incident.

Granted we derive ideas of as of what MAY have happened and what could be done in the event of those hypotheticals. This thread is about 5 people who died, maybe possibly in a bad way.
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You sound like my dad, “we know nothing about this particular incident”. Actually we do know something;
on the scale of probabilities, it was highly probable the pilot loss sight of the mountain for a period of time.
How much time will remain unknown. If we’re honest, could we not picture turning into that vertical white face after inadvertently entering a cloud or a heavy snow flurry? That could happen so easily.
If you’re VFR which is “eyes outside 97% of the time” then suddenly you’re forced to go IFR, “eyes inside 97% of the time”, wow, the sudden change over takes time and it can become really unnerving really quick. Just when we need to be “as sharp as a tac, we’re really as dull as a hoe” for longer then we’d admit. Initial lesson for me is to stay VFR at all cost.
I like you’re reminder that 5 people died. People like us with hopes and dreams, families and friends.
Roddy
 
I don't want to armchair quarterback but the idea that he just got into a cloud and ran into the mountain I cant buy. First off he's not a VFR only pilot and can keep right side up in the soup and secondly, which was why i got into this conversation to begin with, even a Garmin 296 will show you enough red on the terrain page to keep you away from the rocks and I know these guys have GPS with terrain.

True, don't know for certain what happened but I'm not writing the report, just expressing my best guess.
 
kcabpilot said:
I don't want to armchair quarterback but the idea that he just got into a cloud and ran into the mountain I cant buy. First off he's not a VFR only pilot and can keep right side up in the soup and secondly, which was why i got into this conversation to begin with, even a Garmin 296 will show you enough red on the terrain page to keep you away from the rocks and I know these guys have GPS with terrain.

True, don't know for certain what happened but I'm not writing the report, just expressing my best guess.
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If you have ever experienced sudden, unplanned IFR conditions, my previous post would have made complete sense to you.
Roddy
 
My best guess is that he did the best he could in the conditions and circumstances he had. A couple of the Supercub.Org family are very close to this accident. Let's keep it respectful.
 
Just wondering how many of you commenters have flown that route or over that 3,000 foot ridge that seems like a mountain growing out of a mountain ? (RandyK excluded)

Have stood on the glacier below the accident site ?

Have spent a night on McKinley / Denali whatever the PC name is today

Have experienced the sudden wx changes or the winds that boil around those peaks

This was not an accident where a Garmin GPS was going to save your bacon.

Being screwed into a crevasse and entombed is not a place you want to end up. This is a very sad ending for a wedding party.
 
StalledOut said:
...This was not an accident where a Garmin GPS was going to save your bacon...
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Exactly what I’ve been saying, not a case of just flying into a cloud and losing visual sight of the mountain where a Garmin might save you, had to have been much more to it than that. I’ve been up there on a perfect CAVU day and the scale of the place is something you can’t really wrap your head around. When you see another distant, tiny man made object you get a hint but still don’t really fathom it. Ruth Glacier is probably one of the most awesome things I’ve seen in my life.
 
Judging from the overhead pic taken at about the same time as the wreck, I'd guess at a crazy-wild, turbulent downdraft at the worst possible time and place.

I agree with Stewart re this tragedy.
 
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