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Thread: MY ELT Works!

  1. #1

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    MY ELT Works!

    Quicky!

    Bad EarthX. Changed the battery today. Followed the instructions and connected the + side, then the common. Turned on the master. ELT went off. G3X went wonky. I had the E-04 manual and it had no info. Ater a minute or two I went to the ELT itself and turned it off, then back to armed. That did the trick, but not soon enough to stop RCC from calling me. The duty guy was great. I apologized and finished my chores. But now I know my ELT works!
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-30-2018 at 10:26 PM.
    Thanks Steve Pierce thanked for this post

  2. #2
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I am sure 99% of their hits are false alarms!

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    I wonder what caused the electrical issue? I had to cycle the G3X and the ELT and now both work fine. The battery has been in and out several times with no problems. The master was off when I changed the battery this time. I'm stumped.

  4. #4
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I wonder what caused the electrical issue? I had to cycle the G3X and the ELT and now both work fine. The battery has been in and out several times with no problems. The master was off when I changed the battery this time. I'm stumped.
    charged backwards? check with a meter

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I wonder what caused the electrical issue? I had to cycle the G3X and the ELT and now both work fine. The battery has been in and out several times with no problems. The master was off when I changed the battery this time. I'm stumped.
    you hooked up BOTH ground leads at battery??

  6. #6

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    yes

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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    The RS232 circuit that supplies GPS position also supplies 12v power to the ELT. Just built the harness for my E-04.

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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    The RS232 circuit that supplies GPS position also supplies 12v power to the ELT. Just built the harness for my E-04.
    NOT CORRECT!!!

    All RS232 circuits are data lines only. If you check the wiring diagram for the E-04, pins 2 and 4 are the RS232 data lines. Pin 3 is to airframe ground and pin 1 is power in (+10 to +30 volts). RS232 voltage ranges from 0VDC to +5VDC and are completely separate from any power circuits. Note that power wires run with data wires are not part of the data circuit.

    It's very common for digital equipment such as ELTs to 'fire up' when you connect the battery. And remember that this ELT is connected directly to battery power so having the master off won't make any difference.

    Web
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  9. #9
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I did not word that well. What I meant was that in addition to the RS232, 12v is supplied.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    NOT CORRECT!!!

    All RS232 circuits are data lines only. If you check the wiring diagram for the E-04, pins 2 and 4 are the RS232 data lines. Pin 3 is to airframe ground and pin 1 is power in (+10 to +30 volts). RS232 voltage ranges from 0VDC to +5VDC and are completely separate from any power circuits. Note that power wires run with data wires are not part of the data circuit.

    It's very common for digital equipment such as ELTs to 'fire up' when you connect the battery. And remember that this ELT is connected directly to battery power so having the master off won't make any difference.

    Web

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    I did not word that well. What I meant was that in addition to the RS232, 12v is supplied.
    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    NOT CORRECT!!!

    All RS232 circuits are data lines only. If you check the wiring diagram for the E-04, pins 2 and 4 are the RS232 data lines. Pin 3 is to airframe ground and pin 1 is power in (+10 to +30 volts). RS232 voltage ranges from 0VDC to +5VDC and are completely separate from any power circuits. Note that power wires run with data wires are not part of the data circuit.

    It's very common for digital equipment such as ELTs to 'fire up' when you connect the battery. And remember that this ELT is connected directly to battery power so having the master off won't make any difference.

    Web
    And the 12V only supplies the ACK E-04 position circuit. No need to hook directly to the battery; avionics power or GPS circuit breaker is fine, since the position will only be available when the external GPS is powered up.
    Idaho drinks more wine per person than any other state in the country.

  11. #11
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjohnson View Post
    And the 12V only supplies the ACK E-04 position circuit. No need to hook directly to the battery; avionics power or GPS circuit breaker is fine, since the position will only be available when the external GPS is powered up.
    Where does the book say that?

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  12. #12
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Do NOT CONNECT directly to battery. The 12 volt just a signal to tell it you have an external GPS signal hooked up and functioning at the moment


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  13. #13
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Mine is wired thru a 2A breaker off the avionics bus. The manual say to protect with a 1A breaker. I used what I had. The breaker only protects the wiring.



    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Do NOT CONNECT directly to battery. The 12 volt just a signal to tell it you have an external GPS signal hooked up and functioning at the moment


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    Last edited by Eddie Foy; 07-01-2018 at 06:54 PM.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Do NOT CONNECT directly to battery. The 12 volt just a signal to tell it you have an external GPS signal hooked up and functioning at the moment


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    Mine gives one aubible beep when I turn on the av master. Yesterday it beeped 9 times, went silent for some time, and repeated the 9 beeps. I guess that's what it does when transmitting. The panel reset button didn't turn it off, either. The toggle on the unit was the solution. It works just fine today.

  15. #15
    sjohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Where does the book say that?

    Web
    Ack E-04 manual, page 8, connect to "1A fuse or circuit breaker". The ELT GPS location function is powered by this line in the DIN connector and the GPS must be powered on as well (see page 9, para 3,4). For reliability reasons, the ELT transmitter is independently powered by the ELT battery and the battery is not charged via the DIN connection.
    Idaho drinks more wine per person than any other state in the country.

  16. #16
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    From the manual:


    "When the ELT is activated, and transmitting the 406 Mhz distress signal. The cockpit remote will flash, and the audio alert indicator will emit a series of 9 beeps, approximately every 50 seconds to alert the crew that the ELT is operating. If there is no emergency, reset the ELT using the “Reset” button on the remote, (Page 11 Fig. 16) and immediately notify the appropriate search and rescue operations office, or ATC of the false activation."






    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Mine gives one aubible beep when I turn on the av master. Yesterday it beeped 9 times, went silent for some time, and repeated the 9 beeps. I guess that's what it does when transmitting. The panel reset button didn't turn it off, either. The toggle on the unit was the solution. It works just fine today.

  17. #17
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Yeah I had got in trouble with ack in an email question when I asked how many amps the elt drew when powered by the +12, in order to choose wire size. Their response was that was just a signal wire to let it know the external gps was powered up. Hook it to your avionics buss


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  18. #18
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I'd still keep it direct to the battery (through the fuse/breaker). If it needs the 12V to tell it to use the GPS signal data, I want it to be live all the way to activation (crash). Think about emergency procedures. The last thing you do before contacting the ground is switch off the master. If the ELT line is hot and the GPS has it's battery pack, both will be live when the accelerometer sets off the ELT.

    Either way, make sure you have a properly installed and maintained 406 installed so we can find you.

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  19. #19

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    No parasitic load on my battery. Pass!

  20. #20
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Not much of a load. I'd be surprised if it was even measurable when everything was powered off. Never had any issues with it anyways.

    Web
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  21. #21
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    I'd still keep it direct to the battery (through the fuse/breaker). If it needs the 12V to tell it to use the GPS signal data, I want it to be live all the way to activation (crash). Think about emergency procedures. The last thing you do before contacting the ground is switch off the master. If the ELT line is hot and the GPS has it's battery pack, both will be live when the accelerometer sets off the ELT.

    Either way, make sure you have a properly installed and maintained 406 installed so we can find you.

    Web
    Some of us follow the directions. Even if we learn slowly


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  22. #22
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    MY ELT Works!

    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    I'd still keep it direct to the battery (through the fuse/breaker). If it needs the 12V to tell it to use the GPS signal data, I want it to be live all the way to activation (crash). Think about emergency procedures. The last thing you do before contacting the ground is switch off the master. If the ELT line is hot and the GPS has it's battery pack, both will be live when the accelerometer sets off the ELT.

    Either way, make sure you have a properly installed and maintained 406 installed so we can find you.

    Web
    Please explain how elt 12+ being live will be useful after power to gps is off hence no gps data.

    (I have left you 2 shovels to dig you hole . )

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Wolfenstein


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  23. #23
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    My new Garmin GTX 335 Transponder has a "Keep Alive" circuit that is wired direct to battery. According to Garmin, it shortens the time needed to get a GPS fix.

    The keep alive draws (in microamps)
    14 V
    typical 65
    max 85

    28 V
    typical 20
    max 40

    There are 1,000,000 microamps in an amp
    The GPS keep alive, at it's maximum draw in a 14V aircraft will last 11,764 hours at 1AH.
    Last edited by Eddie Foy; 07-02-2018 at 05:23 AM.
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  24. #24
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    When I installed my GTX 335 I wired the keep-alive circuit into the hot wire at the oil pressure switch for the hour meter.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  25. #25
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Please explain how elt 12+ being live will be useful after power to gps is off hence no gps data.

    (I have left you 2 shovels to dig you hole . )

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Wolfenstein


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    Thanks for the link to 'Castle Wolfenstien', but video games aren't really my thing.

    You say that ACK states that the 12V is just a signal to tell the ELT to use GPS data on activation. Typically a pilot will try to turn off the master in the last seconds before touchdown during a forced landing (if possible). Therefore the ELT will not have the 12 volt signal present at the time of the crash. If connected directly to the battery, the ELT will be looking for the GPS data at the time of activation. Most portable GPS units have built in battery packs that power the GPS after loss of external power or for around 30 seconds depending on program settings. In that case, at the time of activation, the ELT will have the 12 volt signal present to tell it to look for GPS data and the GPS will (hopefully) still be sending that data.

    Fun argument but whether anyone thinks I'm right or wrong, just make sure your ELT works. If you're alive we can always have another argument.

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  26. #26
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Some of us follow the directions. Even if we learn slowly


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    I seriously doubt that's an accusation either one of us has heard much.

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  27. #27

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    Doesn't the E-04 store the last GPS position until it's overwritten by a new one? I'm pretty sure the RCC guy knew right where I was when he called.

  28. #28
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I may well but if you're moving it will continuously change. Until the sudden stop, lol.

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  29. #29

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    If I turn off the master I'm close to the scene of the crash, and coincidentally I'll have already set my beacon to transmit.

  30. #30
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I hope it never gets tested in 'real world' and just remains the subject of an argument.

    I've stated what I do and why I do it. We're all adults (stop laughing) so make your own decisions.

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  31. #31
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    Not to beat a dead horse, but this discussion reminded me of something I read in the documentation that came with my E-04. I dug this up from one of the PDFs:

    How does the ACK E-04 handle the GPS data input?

    The E-04 receives the data input from your GPS at the same rate your GPS outputs the data. (Typically once per second) The ELT uses the last data received from your GPS as its location when the ELT is activated either manually or by the crash sensor.
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  32. #32
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    By webs reasoning, using diesel fuel in a gas vehicle is ok. Cause he has a DIFFERENT vehicle that takes diesel. Instruction manuals are useful.... we are referring to an ACK install here..


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  33. #33
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Now Mike, you're a good guy but I'm calling BS on that one! It's more like which supplier to buy the gas from, at a given time of day.
    Gordon

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  34. #34

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    MY ELT Works!

    The manual’s specified test procedure says to turn off the master so no power is supplied to the ELT. To me that implies the power should be controlled by the master. I guess others may interpret it differently. When I turn on the master the ELT does the self test. I’m becoming used to hearing that beep when I power up the electronics. Is this system better or worse than what I’ve been used to with my Artex for the past dozen years? Nope, just different.

    I do wonder why my reset switch didn’t reset the ELT when it went off. But electricity isn’t my strong suit and if I can’t duplicate the problem it must not be an important problem.

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    Last edited by stewartb; 07-03-2018 at 08:34 AM.

  35. #35
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    The manual’s specified test procedure says to turn off the master so no power is supplied...
    The manual as shown says "and no power is supplied...". A subtle difference that might matter. Like you said, it's subject to interpretation. If it were me I think I'd like it on the master, that way when the master is off everything is off.
    Gordon

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