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Thread: Best helmet for backcountry

  1. #121

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    I have had good luck with 3'" and 2" re-webbing with Wag Aero
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by 46 Cub View Post
    Bill,
    What is your analysis of the EN 966 rating? It is advertised on the Icaro Helmets, and Tiger offered them as "rated for aviation impact" I understand the rating is for Microlight, etc. in Europe but wondered what your knowledge could provide about that rating compared to whatever "aviation" rating there is in the US... and not the DOI requirements - they go beyond my questions. Is it (the rating) the same in US? Different? If so, how?
    I don't really want to get into the question of whether wearing a helmet is good or not. For myself and what I do, I know a helmet would be helpful in the event of at least an engine failure. I've done it a long time and my behavior doesn't change whether I'm wearing one or not. I am very curious as to what various ratings mean and how they apply to my particular world. Not asking you to analyze all the ratings but the waters get muddy when considering deceleration, penetration, rebound, etc.. Thus wondering what EN 966 really means.
    I have done some research but it all seems to blend together and I hope to gain some insight from others who know far more than I about this. If you would add your insight I would appreciate it.
    Thanks
    Jose
    Heck if I know. “Rated for aviation impact” appears to be a marketing term. Parachute flyers and micro light drivers are aviators.

    EN 966 was drafted for Micro lights and free fall participants. I suspect drafters did not anticipate SuperCubs while writing the standard.

    Helmet standards are a compromise.
    Drafters of helmet standards look at the injury mechanism that cause the most prevalent injury, then ask if a helmet can reduce that type of injury. Lastly what should the specifications be.


    Without understanding the mechanism of injury that is at play in our activity we are guessing. When we do know the mechanism we are taking an educated guess.

    EN 966 impact standard is (I think- don’t bank on this off the cuff reply) for a 14 mph hit on a flat or curb angle with a pass fail of 275 g.
    Lots and lots of other things to consider when choosing a particular helmet or Standard.

    EN966 is not equivalent to a full DOT test; not always a bad thing. An EN966 helmet should be lighter and thinner than a motorbike helmet.



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    Last edited by Bill.Brine; 05-04-2019 at 11:48 AM.
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  3. #123
    Colorguns's Avatar
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    I bet anything (helmet) is better than a HAT so as I'm trying to do find something that I WILL WEAR and use it. Better than a hat, I bet that for sure.

    Doug
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  4. #124
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Does your hat fit in your Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colorguns View Post
    I bet anything (helmet) is better than a HAT so as I'm trying to do find something that I WILL WEAR and use it. Better than a hat, I bet that for sure.

    Doug
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Does your hat fit in your Cub?
    LOL!!!

    NO Not while wearing it. LOL

  6. #126
    Bill.Brine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorguns View Post
    I bet anything (helmet) is better than a HAT so as I'm trying to do find something that I WILL WEAR and use it. Better than a hat, I bet that for sure.

    Doug
    Use the same helmet you use in the car

    The little data I have found does not support the use of helmets in survivable crashes with shoulder harness on.

    The vast majority of head deaths came from impacts below the eyes. A part of the head not covered by a helmet.
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  7. #127
    Albrecht's Avatar
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    Thanks for the recommendations here

  8. #128
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    This hat won’t fit on head in cub. Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #129

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    Best helmet for backcountry

    I have been wearing a 300 dollar Chinese paramotor helmet since I bought my cub a year ago. My eyes and common sense tell me it’s a good helmet. I have another US made helmet on order. Helmets are important. Restraints are important too, because they tie the deceleration if the human to the energy consuming deformation of the airframe. If the plane crashes straight into a tree trunk, nobody will be walking away regardless of the restraint system. If the same plane at the same speed clips a wing on branches and then two or three small trees before coming to rest, the helmet and restraints can do their job. The difference between a 5 millisecond deceleration and 100 millisecond deceleration is the difference between always lethal and potentially survivable. The lesson here is to train yourself mentally to fly the damn plane until the very end. The last second before the crash is the most important of all. If you gotta die, at least die as a pilot. Don’t let “Oh, s**t” be your last thought!


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  10. #130
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill.Brine View Post
    Use the same helmet you use in the car

    The little data I have found does not support the use of helmets in survivable crashes with shoulder harness on.

    The vast majority of head deaths came from impacts below the eyes. A part of the head not covered by a helmet.
    From all my reading and experience I have come to agree. Having fallen straight down from 100 feet like a lawn dart, flipped upside down in a botched river take off attempt, taken out a power line and careening through the trees along with being in the back seat of a Long EZ during a botched landing along with helping recover multiple other aircraft from other's misadventures I think the shoulder harness and a clean cockpit enviroment is the key. Brackets, avionics etc. hanging down and sticking out cut and rip body parts when your arms and legs flop around and structures fail. Shoulder harnesses are essential in my opinion, I have crushed my laranyx, perforated my esophagus and broken my jaw in 3 places because I did not have a shoulder harness in two different accidents. Two broken wrists, broken tibia and countless stitches were a result of protruding objects and structures trying to occupy the same space as my body. Some might say I am a hard learner and they might be correct but a few of these I was powerless over and afew were due to my poor decision making. Learned from it all in more respects than are appearant. Like my Dad used to tell me when I did dumb things as a teenager "Think, think, think, that is what you have a brain for". It is all fun until someone bends something.
    Steve Pierce

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  11. #131
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    I agree on the clean cockpit environment, that’s one reason I don’t feel the need for a helmet in a GA plane, but wear it every flight without exception in an ag plane. An Ag Cat cockpit is tight, my helmet has scratches everywhere just from bouncing around the rollover structure on windy days. It also had a chunk taken out of it when a 1340 quit at 50 feet on takeoff and I flipped it with a full load of fertilizer, physics wasn’t in my favor that day but the helmet did it’s job. Same reason I don’t like the overhead flap handle, that’s one more thing to catch with your face in a crash.
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  12. #132
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    Just decided, if I ever get a chance.... I'm not fly'n with Steve.

  13. #133

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    If Skycowboy comes up with adapters to put my Zulus into Team Wendy helmets I'll buy two helmets for my Cessna. Clean cockpit? Not in any Cub I've been in. Tubes up above, above and in front, structure on either side of a narrow cockpit.... Seriously? I can't not hit my head on a fairly calm day. In my 180 the rear through spar? Side structure? Shoulder harnesses don't stop me from hitting what's above or beside me. I'll keep the Gallet for the Cub and want something a little simpler and cooler for the 180. Maybe a Team Wendy ultimately wins the nod in the Cub, too. Time will tell. I hope the Zulu adapters come to market soon.

    Between my visor's utility and top of head bump protection in moderate turbulence my Gallet has earned its keep many times over. It isn't always about serious accident protection. And that's why the Team Wendy is attractive to me for the Cessna. I don't need a drop-down visor in that plane.

    I don't care much what other guys do. When asked I offer comments about what I do and why. I don't understand why anyone would offer condescending remarks about anyone else's choice to use a helmet.
    Last edited by stewartb; 05-05-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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  14. #134
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    I’ve got a “tactical” helmet that I really should start wearing.

    In turb I tend to bump my head on the overhead tubes. I can’t imagine what they’d feel like in an accident.

    But I 100% subscribe to shoulder harnesses and inertia reels. They’ll keep your face/head out of the dash/stick/yoke.

  15. #135
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Clean cockpit? Not in any Cub I've been in. Tubes up above, above and in front, structure on either side of a narrow cockpit.... Seriously?
    Clean cockpit is referring to radios tacked under the panel, headset hooks, etc. When I get in an airplane I look at things protruding out that can impale me because I have been impaled. The radio between my legs is a perfect example. Next project on my own Cub is a Trig TY91 2 1/4" radio in the panel.

    I am also concerned with the extra weight of a helmet and the effects on my neck having blown out 2 discs in my neck already.
    Steve Pierce

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  16. #136
    gbflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    If Skycowboy comes up with adapters to put my Zulus into Team Wendy helmets I'll buy two helmets for my Cessna. Clean cockpit? Not in any Cub I've been in. Tubes up above, above and in front, structure on either side of a narrow cockpit.... Seriously? I can't not hit my head on a fairly calm day. In my 180 the rear through spar? Side structure? Shoulder harnesses don't stop me from hitting what's above or beside me. I'll keep the Gallet for the Cub and want something a little simpler and cooler for the 180. Maybe a Team Wendy ultimately wins the nod in the Cub, too. Time will tell. I hope the Zulu adapters come to market soon.

    Between my visor's utility and top of head bump protection in moderate turbulence my Gallet has earned its keep many times over. It isn't always about serious accident protection. And that's why the Team Wendy is attractive to me for the Cessna. I don't need a drop-down visor in that plane.

    I don't care much what other guys do. When asked I offer comments about what I do and why. I don't understand why anyone would offer condescending remarks about anyone else's choice to use a helmet.
    Right there with ya. Smacked my head on that door post in a C180 a time or two as well. No amount of shoulder harness is going to stop that. Don’t have a Cessna any more but if I did I’d figure something out for a skid lid. The thought of my wife wiping my ass for me for the rest of my days is not a pleasant one.
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  17. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Clean cockpit is referring to radios tacked under the panel, headset hooks, etc. When I get in an airplane I look at things protruding out that can impale me because I have been impaled. The radio between my legs is a perfect example. Next project on my own Cub is a Trig TY91 2 1/4" radio in the panel.

    I am also concerned with the extra weight of a helmet and the effects on my neck having blown out 2 discs in my neck already.
    After my last snowgo wreck that required an MRI on my neck the radiologist walked in and asked how long ago I'd broken my neck. I didn't know I had but I've narrowed it down to 2 events. One on a snowgo and one an a Rzr. Both required me to retire those helmets. I'm a helmet fan and have no issue with my Gallet's 2.2# including the A-20 headset built in.

  18. #138
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbflyer View Post
    Right there with ya. Smacked my head on that door post in a C180 a time or two as well. No amount of shoulder harness is going to stop that. Don’t have a Cessna any more but if I did I’d figure something out for a skid lid. The thought of my wife wiping my ass for me for the rest of my days is not a pleasant one.
    Harness is part of a restraint system. Shoulder harnesses aren’t designed to keep you from “floating up” in turbulence. That’s the job of the seat belt, which is the other part of a restraint system. If your seat belt isn’t very snug, your body is going to move around a lot in bad turbulence or an accident.

    Restraints can’t do their job if they’re not tight.

    MTV
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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Harness is part of a restraint system. Shoulder harnesses aren’t designed to keep you from “floating up” in turbulence. That’s the job of the seat belt, which is the other part of a restraint system. If your seat belt isn’t very snug, your body is going to move around a lot in bad turbulence or an accident.

    Restraints can’t do their job if they’re not tight.

    MTV
    Don’t disagree, I know you like helmets and harnesses. I have had shoulder harnesses in everything. Unless I cinch everything down to the point of loss of circulation, and maybe get a HANS, I can still hit my head on a Cessna door post. I believe that accounted for the death of that fellow in the 172 in ID a number of years ago who survived post crash for a short time. Also the Gulf Air guy with the load of climbers (climbers survived). BAS will certainly allow this when you sit up in the seat to see out the side of the windshield or go for the flap handle. More the side to side rag doll head flops than the up and down neck jammers. Ride ‘em cowboy!
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Clean cockpit is referring to radios tacked under the panel, headset hooks, etc. When I get in an airplane I look at things protruding out that can impale me because I have been impaled. The radio between my legs is a perfect example. Next project on my own Cub is a Trig TY91 2 1/4" radio in the panel.

    I am also concerned with the extra weight of a helmet and the effects on my neck having blown out 2 discs in my neck already.
    By gosh Steve, gotta give it to you!
    Your " persistent"

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  21. #141

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    Same.
    My child’s head bouncing off the interior next to or above or in front of her are exactly the reasons I intend to put her in a lightweight helmet like the Team Wendy unit when we’re off-airport or in mishap-prone short mountain strips. I’m less interested in catastrophic impact application and more in reducing the “bump” factor.
    While I try to fly precisely and approach every flight with passengers as if it’s a commercial gig, things happen off-airport. Bouncy or tumbling things seem most likely in the kind of flying I do with kids aboard.

    And, I agree with points made in this discussion about heads bouncing off Cessna door posts and other vertical surfaces in rough landings, turbulence or other sharp lateral forces. The bump helmets seem appropriate for this type of application.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    If Skycowboy comes up with adapters to put my Zulus into Team Wendy helmets I'll buy two helmets for my Cessna. Clean cockpit? Not in any Cub I've been in. Tubes up above, above and in front, structure on either side of a narrow cockpit.... Seriously? I can't not hit my head on a fairly calm day. In my 180 the rear through spar? Side structure? Shoulder harnesses don't stop me from hitting what's above or beside me. I'll keep the Gallet for the Cub and want something a little simpler and cooler for the 180. Maybe a Team Wendy ultimately wins the nod in the Cub, too. Time will tell. I hope the Zulu adapters come to market soon.

    Between my visor's utility and top of head bump protection in moderate turbulence my Gallet has earned its keep many times over. It isn't always about serious accident protection. And that's why the Team Wendy is attractive to me for the Cessna. I don't need a drop-down visor in that plane.

    I don't care much what other guys do. When asked I offer comments about what I do and why. I don't understand why anyone would offer condescending remarks about anyone else's choice to use a helmet.
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  22. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbflyer View Post
    Right there with ya. Smacked my head on that door post in a C180 a time or two as well. No amount of shoulder harness is going to stop that. Don’t have a Cessna any more but if I did I’d figure something out for a skid lid. The thought of my wife wiping my ass for me for the rest of my days is not a pleasant one.

    I'm sure she wold agree with you

  23. #143

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    I can't believe no one has pointed out the the added benefit of when you flip it and have to release the belt you won't end up needing a band aid on the top of your bald head.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  24. #144
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    That's why you cut the button off you ball cap.

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  25. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    That's why you cut the button off you ball cap.

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    I don't own a hat with a button on it but I'm told that doesn't work when pulling the seatbelt latch and yelling bombs away as you unceremoniously plop into the skylight.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 05-06-2019 at 06:17 PM.
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  26. #146
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    Geronimo? . . .

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  27. #147

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    Is anyone here familiar with the "instant tightening" inertia reels?
    I've heard/read about their about their existence but haven't done much reading..
    Curious if someone has knowledge about them.
    Jose

  28. #148

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    Have been following this thread for some time. I've been planning to get a helmet, but now I'm thinking I need to replace my shoulder restraints first. I have fixed shoulder restraints, and they are quite loose on the rear passenger and not terribly tight on me. My waist belt seems solid, but definitely thinking I need some inertia reel shoulder straps. I looked at a few of the older threads - Cub Crafters still the way to go?
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  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Have been following this thread for some time. I've been planning to get a helmet, but now I'm thinking I need to replace my shoulder restraints first. I have fixed shoulder restraints, and they are quite loose on the rear passenger and not terribly tight on me. My waist belt seems solid, but definitely thinking I need some inertia reel shoulder straps. I looked at a few of the older threads - Cub Crafters still the way to go?
    I must not be understanding your train of thought. You said your shoulder harness is loose but the lap belt is tight? Is somehow your shoulder harness not adjustable?

    I understand the need for an inertia reel if you have to reach for flap handles or other items out of normal reach from a fixed position, but if you can reach everything without moving your shoulders I stand by my opinion that a fixed harness snugged up is the best option. With inertia reel or not, everyone should strongly consider a crotch strap. (5/6 point harness)

    pb
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  30. #150

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    Stock parts at Stoddards.

  31. #151
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    I fly both, J4 is non inertia and yellow cub is inertia. I added shoulder harness to my first plane a Pa15 25 years ago and everyone since. Added first inertia reel to my Pa11 20 years ago. The J4 would have an inertia reel also if it had the headroom for one. I try to keep the J4 harness tight for takeoff and landing but it doesn't happen as much as it should. I move around too much while flying so I like the top half loose, and then forget to tighten it for landing. If it's not comfortable tight while flying it's not going to be tight when you need it. I've crashed in both belts, Stearman had standard shoulder straps and 11 had an inertia, walked away from both without a scratch. Automobile inertia belts save more lives because more people will wear them all the time.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  32. #152
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    Lightspeed Aviation - Helmet Promo

    https://youtu.be/uIyzgnJfAAg


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  33. #153
    Bill.Brine's Avatar
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    I like the egress quick release. The rest is marketing speak.
    “Military Grade” what’s that?


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  34. #154
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    Not related to this backcountry helmet discussion, but this is what I get the pleasure to wear everyday at work... about $18K when the white phosphorus ANVS-9's are attached....

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  35. #155

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    [QUOTE=daedgerton;747087]Not related to this backcountry helmet discussion, but this is what I get the pleasure to wear everyday at work... about $18K when the white phosphorus ANVS-9's are attached....

    Which model is that? ANR? I need to buy one for the power line contract I’m flying. I’ve been following this thread hoping to get some info on a good ANR helo helmet. Thanks.
    Mark

  36. #156
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    Gentex?

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  37. #157
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    [QUOTE=mam90;747088]
    Quote Originally Posted by daedgerton View Post
    Not related to this backcountry helmet discussion, but this is what I get the pleasure to wear everyday at work... about $18K when the white phosphorus ANVS-9's are attached....

    Which model is that? ANR? I need to buy one for the power line contract I’m flying. I’ve been following this thread hoping to get some info on a good ANR helo helmet. Thanks.
    Gentex HGU-56. No ANR, I use custom molded CEP's (Communication Ear Plugs) to help prevent hearing damage. Not a huge fan of ANR in helicopters, but that is just me personally... love ANR in fixed wing...
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  38. #158

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    Thanks, appreciate the info. Flew a friends ANR the other day in the helo and liked it. Trying to save what little high freq hearing I have left. Thanks again.
    Mark

  39. #159

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    ANR only cancels low frequencies. A full coverage helmet is the best thing I know for blocking highs.

  40. #160

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    Thanks Stewart, yes a full coverage helmet for protection and the ANR for clarity of hearing and fatigue management is what I’m after. Have used both separately and I’m hoping the combination is the best solution for me. Thanks for the input.
    Mark

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