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Thread: building a wag aero 2+2/ upgraded pa14

  1. #161

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    I have a 2+2 ( I did not build it) but I don't think the center stick idea would work. The seats are really close. I can't see getting your knees out of the way. Even just pulling the flap handle is tight. You can't have personal space issues and ride in the front. Glad your wife will be your passenger, that is a big reason I bought mine. I knew she wouldn't care to just sit and stare at the back of my head from the back seat.

  2. #162
    labrador_cub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Aero View Post
    I'm doing just about the same thing on this 2+2/PA12 clone. SC torque tube with wider single front seat and a removable rear seat. The owner is a pretty healthy guy. The 14 is a little tight for 2 & 2, guess that's one reason they only made them for a year. I like Mauleguy's heel brakes too but cant talk this owner into it
    thats what I've been thinking to, wider more comfortable front seat with a shortened sc torque tube, rear stick when installed will be at and angle but when removed along with the rear seat I'll still have plently of floor space for cargo or taking a nap. Ill still have my dual controls that way which is one thing I dont like about my PA12, everything was removed last rebuild.
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  3. #163
    labrador_cub's Avatar
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    I'M BACK! after a not long enough summer I got done what I needed to do outside such as siding on my garage at home , a ton of work down at the cabin including putting in a new seaplane launch. as well as just enjoying being able to fly, go in boat , fish and drink beers.

    but fall is here and yesterday was a cold rainy night so I got back at the pa14 after 0 work for over 3 months, I added the last 2 diagonal tubes at the tail of the plane ( until I make up my mind on a tailwheel suspension setup.) and finally got to pull the fuselage out of the jig blocks and start the final welding on the bottom section, i managed to get one side all welded that I could reach with the fuselage up right. need to make the decision on removing the build table and building a rotisserie now and jigging the top from the floor. or just do the welding here like this and keeping the table to build the top half.

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  4. #164
    labrador_cub's Avatar
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    well I hit another small milestone , I got this section of the fuselage finish welded.

    not much new as far a picture wise.

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    but it did take flight in a way to free up some space on the table so I have a flat surface to build the square for the upper section. might also build the vertical stab so I can get that on to make 100% sure the tailpost is where I want it, I left that partly welded just in case I need to adjust something.

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    Joey.

  5. #165
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrador_cub View Post
    ..might also build the vertical stab so I can get that on to make 100% sure the tailpost is where I want it
    Joey.
    Since you are eventually planning to put this on floats, you might consider increasing the area of this vertical stab. Move the leading edge forward, increase the height. Of course increasing the height will also require changing the rudder height. Doing this will improve the stability.

    Alternatively you may have to add a ventral fin under the fuselage or on the horizontal stabilizers. Just something for you to consider at this stage of construction. Several options for whatever suits you.
    N1PA

  6. #166
    labrador_cub's Avatar
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    I'm glad you brought that up, I do plan on going bigger with the vertical where this will primarily be a float plane, my 12 doesn't have a ventral fin and I find it flies okay but the other 12's Ive been around never had one either so I might be missing out on something good haha. also this 14 will have longer floats if I extend a set of 2000's which seems like whats going to end up happening, not sure how that effects the flight characteristics but none the less its easy to add vertical now and I don't want a ventral fin if at all possible, I've been close to hitting the tail of the 12 more then once on docks and usually rocks so I don't need anything hanging lower.

    anyone have any input on how far I should extend the vertical, I was thinking 3" and 3".

    also while we are in the tail of the plane, anyone know the stroke of the jack screw for the trim? I can find the degrees of trim no problem but not the stroke in inches. trying to pick out a linear actuator for the trim. also would a 330Lb force be enough or should I get a 450 pound, the 450 pound is an extra .7# heavier so I'd like to go with the 330# force if possible.

  7. #167
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    My Dads -14 on 2000 EDO floats was fine, but adding surfboards strapped to the struts made me pay attention. Not scary, just required a bit more footwork to fly straight in cruise when the air wasnt smooth.

    More vertical fin/dorsal fin could maybe blanket the flow to the horizontal stab in uncoordinated flight. Probably not an issue, as Wayne Mackeys latest SQ’s have more dorsal fin nowadays than they did in the past.

    Maybe finlets like the Champs/Citabrias/Scouts have? mounted onto the top of the Horizontal?

  8. #168
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Joey,
    I understand why in some circumstances the ventral fin gets in the way. Thus why many take it off. This even though it is required on the type certificate. There is an STC to remove it by utilizing a spring arrangement as a substitute. The springs are only band-aids for the real issue of not enough tail. When the plane is operated at or near the aft CG limit it has a tendency to fishtail, which even if you don't notice it makes you constantly to be moving the controls. I find this tiresome. If you are going to square or otherwise extend your wings, that will increase the instability some amount. More wing span requires more tail volume to compensate.

    The wings on my widebody Cub have been squared and extended 2 feet (1 foot each). I found it to be a little unstable requiring constant control motion. So I installed a ventral fin from a Husky. It now flies like a dream. No where near as tiring as it was. Since then I have increased the span 2 more feet with no ill effects.

    I didn't experiment with any other device since this fin was available. As Dave mentions, you could install some Citabria like fins on the stabilizer for a similar result.

    If you do stretch your 2000s as we discussed a while back you most likely would want more tail as there will be more float further forward which will need compensation.
    N1PA
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  9. #169
    labrador_cub's Avatar
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    no real progress on the plane other then researching for the linear actuator trim, as luck would have it there was some recent conversation about it on wildcats build that proved to be valuable, never realized a lot of them are rated more for extension then retracting. I think I have one found though. 4 inch stroke ( might need to go longer to get the right degrees where I'm extending the horizontal fwd to match the vertical) and a 1100LB dynamic load capacity.

    I did make some shop progress this week, I removed the giant lathe from my shop , the 5x15' of real estate it took up wasn't worth the use it gets so its well oiled and tarped over outside until I can set it up at the shop at my camp. forgot how heavy 15,000 pounds is when ya gota move it with a pry bar!

    I also downsized the plane table to 4x8 and did some re arranging of the shop so I can get the fuselage down on some saw horses and still have room to work.

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