Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 85

Thread: Supercub and Mogas

  1. #41
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Farmboy this is for you. My Mom bought this Lawnboy back in 1993 and it has used 10% ethanol since about 2000. The fuel I just dumped in was mixed last September and it just started on the first pull. Around here lots of straight pipe from the engine new diesel pickup. Some even have a "power" button in the cab that they can fog major black smoke.
    20180525_125711.jpg

  2. #42
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hotrod, here is a pic of a blender pump at a convenience store about a mile from the ethanol plant the store owner is an investor at Jackson Nebraska. They bring the ethanol over from the plant and put it in a tank. In NW Iowa, there are two products that come up the pipeline 84 sub-octane and 91. All pure/combinations are made from those three things----ethanol, 84, and 91. The 91 in the pic must be in a separate tank. The pump I get E85 from 10 miles away has one hose with 87 E0 and E10 and a yellow hose with 15,20, and 85. Lots of variation with a blender pump.
    BlenderPump.jpg

  3. #43
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    10,312
    Post Thanks / Like
    For a number of years, I owned a pickup that was approved for E-85, and I lived where E-85 was readily available. So, I tried an experiment: Two months running on only E-85, then two months running on only E-10 (no ethanol free gas available there, then repeat. The truck consistently got significantly worse mileage with E-85, and cost more.....great idea...duh!

    unfortunately, our local stations offer only E-10 in lower grade gas, but a few stations carry ethanol free 91 octane. The cub likes the stuff.

    Stopped at Mobridge, SD and Waseca, MN enroute OSH....both have turf runways and auto gas on the field.

    MTV
    Thanks Frank Blaesbjerg thanked for this post

  4. #44
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    1,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    Meaningless trivia. They ran their engines hard. They ran their engines often. And they ran them lean of peak. Everyone has a gut feeling about why certain practices work. Usually based upon what someone else told them back in their youth.


    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    25+ years ago at Oshkosh I sat in on a radial engine clinic, there was more then one speaker. One old weathered gray haired who was the last to speak was the most interesting one. He had run the engine repair/rebuild shop for TWA when they were flying the Constellation. He was taking answers from the audience when someone asked about MMO, wanted to know his opinion on using it. I don't remember word for word what he said but it was something like this. " No one can tell you what it does, and it's not FAA approved, but I can tell you that TWA bought 55gals drums of it by the truckload."

    Glenn
    Likes 180Marty liked this post

  5. #45
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mike, E85 (105 octane) likes high compression which your pickup wasn't. But if you notice the prices in the picture from whenever, E85 was 98 cents less and I bet it would have worked price wise. My 2017 Ford Focus has variable valve timing and direct fuel injection into the combustion chamber. Last week when I filled I got 32 mpg. It will run on 87 octane too by changing valve and fuel timing. One time I had to drop to E30 and my mileage went to 40 or a little more. I guess I should see if it will get 50 on 87 E0 but just can't bring myself to do such an evil thing. A big Continental that I know of has been using E10 since 2006, the exhaust pipe has a nice tan look. Before trying the E10 and using 87 E0, the exhaust was black and sooty. Sparkplugs were too but not anymore---they're beautiful and compression after 225 hrs is all above 75/80.

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Thun Field, Washington
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    I sure seems that if you believe strongly enough, it'll work for you.
    Using that line of thinking, I believe I'll fly after work then have a cold beer.
    Likes brown bear, hotrod180, pfm liked this post

  7. #47
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,683
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cruiser View Post
    Meaningless trivia. They ran their engines hard. They ran their engines often. And they ran them lean of peak. Everyone has a gut feeling about why certain practices work. Usually based upon what someone else told them back in their youth.
    Agree, but we have both had cubs with little Continentals, I think I remember you having some stuck valves a few years back. Mine in 4200+ little C-engine hours have not. : - )

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just picked up 100 gallons of avgas at $4.50 per. Regular car gas is creeping up on $3.50 here, and Alaska produces a little petroleum, too. I used to add MMO into my tank but haven't in a few years. Can't recognize any difference other than sumped water doesn't come out bright pink. I used to think it mattered. Not so much anymore.

  9. #49
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    10,312
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Mike, E85 (105 octane) likes high compression which your pickup wasn't. But if you notice the prices in the picture from whenever, E85 was 98 cents less and I bet it would have worked price wise. My 2017 Ford Focus has variable valve timing and direct fuel injection into the combustion chamber. Last week when I filled I got 32 mpg. It will run on 87 octane too by changing valve and fuel timing. One time I had to drop to E30 and my mileage went to 40 or a little more. I guess I should see if it will get 50 on 87 E0 but just can't bring myself to do such an evil thing. A big Continental that I know of has been using E10 since 2006, the exhaust pipe has a nice tan look. Before trying the E10 and using 87 E0, the exhaust was black and sooty. Sparkplugs were too but not anymore---they're beautiful and compression after 225 hrs is all above 75/80.
    Uh, nope. In fact, E-85 was slightly MORE expensive than E-10 at the time....a total rip off. As to E-0 in aircraft engines, you need to remember what the red knob is for.....

    MTV

  10. #50
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Uh, nope. In fact, E-85 was slightly MORE expensive than E-10 at the time....a total rip off.
    You are right about rip off. Today's close for June Nymex RBOB unleaded gasoline was $2.18 and CBOT ethanol futures $1.50. No subsidy $$$$ in the ethanol either like some people seem to think. Another thing I read from some people is how E10 loses 10% miles per gallon and I wonder what are they smoking. If the ethanol is blended with the same gasoline that is E0, then there are 3.5% few btu's in that gallon but if...... Texas is a special place----the state goes around and does random samples at gas stations and one time they found either 1/2 or 1 % of a tar like molecule that didn't actually burn in the gas. What a wonderful way to get rid of junk for a nice profit.

  11. #51
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    As to E-0 in aircraft engines, you need to remember what the red knob is for.....
    I'll have to admit, I've never been super aggressive doing that. I still have to think with E10 that all that oxygen mixed right in amongst the other hydrocarbons that the burn is more complete and not still burning as it goes by the exhaust valve.
    Likes giangab liked this post

  12. #52
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    1,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    Nope, I have never had a stuck valve. And your gut feeling that MMO has anything to do with your experiences is not hard data. Add a half a quart of kerosine to your oil, that is a good solvent and will keep your valve guides clean. Cheaper than mineral spirits in a red can.



    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Agree, but we have both had cubs with little Continentals, I think I remember you having some stuck valves a few years back. Mine in 4200+ little C-engine hours have not. : - )

    Glenn

  13. #53
    Doug Budd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Crawford Nebraska
    Posts
    128
    Post Thanks / Like
    All I know is my Dad and I have been using car gas for a long long time and would have a stuck valve once in a while . We started using MMO and haven’t had one since. Pretty cheap insurance I think.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Thanks Cub Special Ed thanked for this post
    Likes DENNY, Bowie liked this post

  14. #54
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mmo rules!
    Ethenol drools!
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  15. #55
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    2,002
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Farmboy this is for you. My Mom bought this Lawnboy back in 1993 and it has used 10% ethanol since about 2000. The fuel I just dumped in was mixed last September and it just started on the first pull. Around here lots of straight pipe from the engine new diesel pickup. Some even have a "power" button in the cab that they can fog major black smoke.
    20180525_125711.jpg
    So... your point is what? What was the fuel mixed with last september?

  16. #56
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    ..... No subsidy $$$$ in the ethanol either like some people seem to think. .....
    Far as I'm concerned, a mandated market for your product is a subsidy.
    They should end the mandate & let the product sell (or not) on it's own merits.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Thanks Cub Special Ed thanked for this post
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  17. #57
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Looks like a one-armed bandit to me.
    I think if I pulled into a gas station and encountered something like that....
    I'd find another station.
    Or at least hope they had an attendant.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Thanks Skip thanked for this post

  18. #58
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    2,002
    Post Thanks / Like
    ..... No subsidy $$$$ in the ethanol either like some people seem to think. .....

    That's like saying that Tesla never got loans, grants or other government assistance.


    "A 2010 study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that in fiscal year 2009, biofuel tax credits reduced federal revenues by around US$6 billion, of which corn and cellulosic ethanol accounted for US$5.16 billion and US$50 million, respectively. A 2010 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that the cumulative ethanol subsidies between 2005 and 2009 were US$17 billion. The same study estimated the future cost to taxpayers at US$53.59 billion if these tax credits were extended until 2015, yielding 15 billion US gallons (56.8 billion liters).[87]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethano..._United_States

  19. #59
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Farmboy, You removed all doubt for me now and I probably shouldn't even respond------I think this is 2018 and just a few changes have been made. There are no subsidies or tax credits and the mandate to blend ethanol by oil companies is even changing. This is old news from April 2018. Heck, even major refiners are claiming hardship and getting out of there mandate to blend ethanol the last few years even before Scott Pruitt who seems to be expanding on the waivers. It was supposed to be for the one horse small time refinery but like I said times have changed. You really need get up to speed.
    NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Environmental Protection Agency has exempted one of the nation’s largest oil refining companies, Andeavor (ANDV.N), from complying with U.S. biofuels regulations - a waiver historically reserved for tiny operations in danger of going belly up, two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1HA21P

  20. #60
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,357
    Post Thanks / Like
    From what I have researched the EPA has, in a round about way regulated in ethanol as a way of complying with clean air regulations. You live in remote areas with little pollution ethanol free is readily available, big city with lots of pollution fuel has ethanol.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  21. #61
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    2,002
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Farmboy, You removed all doubt for me now and I probably shouldn't even respond------I think this is 2018 and just a few changes have been made. There are no subsidies or tax credits and the mandate to blend ethanol by oil companies is even changing. This is old news from April 2018. Heck, even major refiners are claiming hardship and getting out of there mandate to blend ethanol the last few years even before Scott Pruitt who seems to be expanding on the waivers. It was supposed to be for the one horse small time refinery but like I said times have changed. You really need get up to speed.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1HA21P

    Ha! Good deal. Let me refer to post #27 though, just for clarity - "It was hugely subsidized, and perhaps still is." The phrase implies that it was once, as it was. And it might still be, but I don't follow it. So it seems that it's not anymore. Thanks.

    But I still think it's BS. My opinion. Are you a corn producer Marty?
    Likes Doug Budd liked this post

  22. #62
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hotrod, I consider the blender pump my idea but will never get credit. Back in 2003, I contacted Clean Fuels USA based in Texas and talked to the guy in charge of certifying a Gilbarco single hose pump for E85 use. He said my idea of using a blender was good but that it would never be needed. In 2005 when I went to Oshkosh I fueled up with a blender that Utica Energy ethanol had just installed a few miles west of Oshkosh. The manager happened to be there and said technically what they were doing was illegal and weren't broadcasting for fear of getting shutdown. I still pursued it here at home and back then one of the board members of the local Co Op said it wouldn't work because he was sure his wife wasn't smart enough to figure out what button to push. Today that is where the closest blender pump is being installed about 7 years ago when more intelligent people were elected to the board. Ignorance abounds and just a few days ago a friend of mine said his new Ford Escape can use E85 but also the owners manual says a minimum of 87 octane. He wondered how he could use that 85 octane E85. I about fell over!!!!!

  23. #63
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yep, here is some of my corn a few days ago. Not no till but close so very, very little fuel used. Isn't all that soil conserving residue on the surface beautiful and not much herbicide since I try not to let any weeds go to seed.
    20180518_134418.jpg
    Likes tripper liked this post

  24. #64
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Missed a couple of posts before. Farmboy the E10 87 octane was mixed with the 2-cycle oil that the Lawnboy needs. Steve P you are right, ethanol is a great way to have fewer emissions because it burns so much cleaner. China is going to increase ethanol use since the air is so polluted. My sister lives in coastal southeast Virginia and there is an ethanol mandate to help clean the air. Boaters hate it but my ex- brother in law used it in the twin 175 Mercury outboards and didn't have problems. He was sold on Startron I think it was. Anyway I rode in it and no problems-----just have to understand and manage.

  25. #65
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    2,002
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yup. Startron is good. And needed (almost required) to limit the effects of ethanol and todays quality of fuel on the whole.

    IMG_1587.JPG


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone
    Likes 180Marty liked this post

  26. #66
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    A side note: the Peterson STC for my C-90 requires that I mix 10% avgas with auto gas to provide adequate lead to valve train. MTV
    10% avgas, interesting.
    From the Petersen Aviation website:

    We recommend you use one tank full of 100LL every 75 hours to replace lead on the valve seats.
    By doing so you will be supplying adequate lead for these parts. Also, during break-in following an overhaul or replacement of a cylinder, you should use 100LL for 25 hours in order to supply lead during the break-in process. A mixture of 75% unleaded and 25% 100LL yields a lead content equivalent to 80/87 octane avgas (0.5 gram per gallon). Radial and Franklin engines should use this mixture at all times if possible because they are dependent on lead to prevent valve seat recession


    and

    Radials, Franklins, and Continental engines from the A-65 thru the 0-300 should have lead provided constantly. A mixture of 30% 100LL and 70% unleaded gasoline yields a lead content equivalent to leaded 80/87 octane aviation gasoline. This is enough lead to protect valve seats but not enough to foul the plugs


    Personally, I used to run 25% 100LL in my last 2 airplanes, and run 20% avgas in my current C1180.
    Mainly for logistics reasons -- I have 5 gas cans, when at home I put in 4 cans of mogas followed by 1 can of avgas.
    The 25% ratio was because I only had 4 cans then.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Thanks Cub Special Ed thanked for this post

  27. #67

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,251
    Post Thanks / Like
    I keep my bulk tank at home e free, but XC I burn it .in the Rotax with zero issues. Haven't burned a drop of Av Gas in 12-15 years, averaging 200 hrs a year
    The money saved goes in the beer fund, and I can't drink it up fast enough as it's a pretty.major savings, NOT nickels and dimes but about a 50 dollar bill kept in my pocket every fillip. If I had a Lycoming I'd go blended as much as possible, from what I'm reading here.

  28. #68

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,582
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am a bit careful with unknown tanks. I will not put auto in my J-3 wing tank, and use avgas exclusively in the Decathlon.

    in California we had something called MTBE. It would eat "sloshing compound" and maybe sealant. I saw several cases of severe fuel contamination due to (presumably) the MTBE eating the coating.

    My wing tank thus becomes the avgas injection system - turn it on when I think the 75% mark approacheth.

    MTBE is long gone, but who knows what they put in that stuff? It burns fine when all components are known to be compatible.

  29. #69
    Farmboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    2,002
    Post Thanks / Like
    That’s good info Hotrod.

    So my understanding is lead is essentially a lubricant, but helps prevent carbon build up. Is this to simplistic, is there more to the value of lead story?

    Pb


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  30. #70
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    1,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lead was added by the oil companies as an anti knock additive or octane booster to prevent detonation. They had no concern for your valve seats. Any cylinder overhauled in the last 30 years or so has hardened seats I would assume. Best info I can find is that 2018 will probably be the last year for leaded fuels. Swift fuels will be the provider of lead free Av Gas as it stands right now.
    Thanks Farmboy thanked for this post

  31. #71
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    The answer goes back to this day in 1921, when General Motors engineer named Thomas Midgley Jr. told his boss Charles Kettering that he’d discovered a new additive which worked to reduce the “knocking” in car engines. That additive: tetraethyl lead, also called TEL or lead tetraethyl, a highly toxic compound that was discovered in 1854. His discovery continues to have impact that reaches far beyond car owners.

    Kitman writes that Midgley himself said he tried any substance he could find in the search for an antiknock, “from melted butter and camphor to ethyl acetate and aluminum chloride.” The most compelling option was actually ethanol.

    But from the perspective of GM, Kitman wrote, ethanol wasn’t an option. It couldn’t be patented and GM couldn’t control its production. And oil companies like Du Pont “hated it,” he wrote, perceiving it to be a threat to their control of the internal combustion engine.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ted-180961368/
    Thanks Bowie, bob turner, skywagon8a, Farmboy, Brandsman thanked for this post

  32. #72
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,989
    Post Thanks / Like
    I knew a colorful old timer who told me that he used to add tetraethyl lead to his av-gas. He still had a bottle on his shelf. Didn't seem to effect his longevity as he lived to a ripe old age.
    N1PA
    Likes 180Marty liked this post

  33. #73

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    31
    Post Thanks / Like
    Now that is flat spooky. I was in the refining business for a long time beginning in the lab in 71. Even at that time, the larger refineries were already being weened away, by the feds, by limiting the amount of TEL per gal. Smaller refineries were not as limited and could still use almost 1930s type amounts. At a smaller refinery, I was directly involved in obtaining and setting up for use for TEL addition. The safety protocol (forced and on site inspected by Ethyl Corp, the only US source for TEL left at that time) would scare the crap out of any sane person. The person in charge of adding the TEL (offloading, transferring, pumping, measuring; had to wear special coveralls that reacted by color (blood red) to even a single drop of TEL. If that drop was found, the individual had to immediately start the cleansing protocol. That started with a fully naked shower in KEROSENE with scrub brush followed by a hot water shower of specified (I forget) duration. Any clothing under the coveralls were to be destroyed (incinerated). Folks can play with it all they want as long as I am informed so I can get a couple miles upwind of them before they do so. I am glad it is gone from auto fuel and it will be good when it is gone forever.
    Thanks 180Marty thanked for this post
    Likes skywagon8a, OLDCROWE liked this post

  34. #74
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    A little more from the article I posted above. Maybe like smoking, a few are lucky but most aren't.

    So in February 1923, a filling station sold the first tank of leaded gasoline. Midgley wasn’t there: he was in bed with severe lead poisoning, writes History.com. The next year, there was serious backlash against leaded gasoline after five workers died from TEL exposure at the Standard Oil Refinery in New Jersey, writes Deborah Blum for Wired, but still, the gasoline went into general sale later that decade. In 1926, she writes, a public health service report concluded there was “no reason to prohibit the sale of leaded gasoline” so long as workers were protected when they made it. Blum continues:

    TEL filled the same technical function as ethanol, he wrote: it reduced knock by raising the fuel’s combustability, what would come to be known as “octane.” Unlike ethanol, though, it couldn’t be potentially used as a replacement for gasoline, as it had been in some early cars. The drawback: it was a known poison, described in 1922 by a Du Pont executive as “a colorless liquid of sweetish odor, very poisonous if absorbed through the skin, resulting in lead poisoning almost immediately.” That statement is important, Kitman wrote: later, major players would deny they knew TEL to be so poisonous.
    Last edited by 180Marty; 05-29-2018 at 09:55 AM.
    Thanks Brandsman thanked for this post

  35. #75
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,479
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    ...So my understanding is lead is essentially a lubricant, but helps prevent carbon build up. ...
    Lead is added for octane boost (aka anti-knock), but is also a lubricant.
    We add it (via 100LL) to mogas to keep the valves happy.
    I don't know where you got the "helps prevent carbon build up" part,
    plug fouling is reduced with mogas use due to the lack of lead in it..
    Lead fouls plugs-- it usually shows up as little balls, aka clinkers, which you have to dig out with a dental pick at annual time.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Thanks Farmboy thanked for this post
    Likes bob turner, 180Marty liked this post

  36. #76
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,016
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ethanol and agriculture groups sued the EPA on Tuesday in response to the agency's recent approval of small-refinery waivers from the Renewable Fuel Standard

    CVR Energy is owned by energy billionaire Carl Icahn. For a time, Icahn served as an adviser to President Donald Trump and recommended the hiring of Scott Pruitt as EPA administrator. Icahn also sought RFS reforms when counseling the president.

    "We want EPA to explain why it is reasonable for HollyFrontier, which apparently could not afford to comply with the RFS, could nonetheless afford to undertake a $1 billion stock share repurchase program during the same time -- and that's before the company received over $300 million in tax cuts last year. Likewise, the petitioners would like to understand how EPA could find hardship at CVR Energy, which reported a $23 million profit in the biofuels credit market in the first quarter of 2018 due to what it called a lower RFS obligation."

  37. #77
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    1,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    I run a mix of ethanol free and avgas not because of concern for my valves but because straight car gas runs so dirty in my engine. Tailpipe is sooty and no amount of aggressive leaning cures it, cannot be good overall. I also have about 2 gph less fuel flow at wide open throttle climb out as compared with either 100 or a 50/50 mixture which is my usual blend. Dunno the reason for that or whether it is good or bad.



    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Lead is added for octane boost (aka anti-knock), but is also a lubricant.
    We add it (via 100LL) to mogas to keep the valves happy.
    I don't know where you got the "helps prevent carbon build up" part,
    plug fouling is reduced with mogas use due to the lack of lead in it..
    Lead fouls plugs-- it usually shows up as little balls, aka clinkers, which you have to dig out with a dental pick at annual time.

  38. #78
    S2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    4,033
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    And bottled up nicely in a red container so I don't have to mix my own concoction! hahahahaha...
    Yea, and those red bottles suck. Leave one sitting around too long and they just fall apart . I don't use it much cause I'm just too lazy but one of my pilots that's flies the 1340 swears by it.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  39. #79
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,683
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    Yea, and those red bottles suck. Leave one sitting around too long and they just fall apart . I don't use it much cause I'm just too lazy but one of my pilots that's flies the 1340 swears by it.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    Yup, i pour mine into one of their old red cans

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 05-31-2018 at 10:38 PM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  40. #80

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    31
    Post Thanks / Like
    For those with an interest. If you read it beginning to tend (133 pages) you must have worked in the industry or are a total chem. geek. I think it is one of the best assemblages of refining information in one spot that I have ever seen. Put together by the Colorado School of Mines.

    For those with the least amount of interest and only want to know about aviation gasolines, flip to page 34. FYI, neither this nor my 1.5 years in a refinery lab will help with blends. Mixing chicken soup and tomato soup isn't and never was on the agenda in a test lab.


    https://inside.mines.edu/~jjechura/R...&_Products.pdf
    Thanks Gordon Misch, 180Marty thanked for this post

Similar Threads

  1. Mogas or Avgas?
    By szq in forum The Art and Science of Flying
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 02-05-2015, 07:45 AM
  2. MOGAS STC
    By Seaworthy in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-19-2007, 12:06 AM
  3. Mogas for C90
    By enardi in forum Modifications
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-24-2004, 09:18 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •