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Important Insurance "words"

Binty

Registered User
South Island, New Zealand
Does anyone know of any document where Piper has mentioned off field operations are supported?

My policy pay out excludes:
"Claims arising whilst the aircraft is landing or attempting to do so from a place which does not comply with the recommendations laid down by the manufacturer..."

Despite an assurance by my insurance broker that 'off field' operations are covered, I would like to find any 'Official Wording' from any PA18 manual/ Brochure etc which recommend the places Cubs operate.

The closest I can find is in the PA18A sales Brochure (circa 1954?) which states: "...the PA18A will take off in but a few hundred feet- can therefore operate from small fields closer to the job"

I just like to have these things squared away...
 
Sounds like a way for them to weasel out of a claim. Mine has no prohibitions concerning where I can land. I made certain of it. Especially when I follow Pierce.
 
New Zealand. I would get words in your policy that cover what you plan to do. They do that here in the states, but it takes several attempts.
 
Well, oops. After sending my thousand dollar check for liability only in a J-3 Cub, the new policy rolls in with these changes:

Change "per occupant" to "per person."
Bob Turner has to have a medical each year
plus a flight review each year.

"per person" means you have to kill ten people to get to the million dollar policy limit. An ambulance ride and a band aid eats up a hundred grand.

I have no problem with the extra flight review - I do that anyway. But the J-3 can be flown with a drivers license, and I have opted for the additional "basic med."

So, old guys, we are facing either going bare or risking a "medical". I am hoping my broker can fix this. I am enjoying what little instructing I am doing.
 
Well, oops. After sending my thousand dollar check for liability only in a J-3 Cub, the new policy rolls in with these changes:

Change "per occupant" to "per person."
Bob Turner has to have a medical each year
plus a flight review each year.

"per person" means you have to kill ten people to get to the million dollar policy limit. An ambulance ride and a band aid eats up a hundred grand.

I have no problem with the extra flight review - I do that anyway. But the J-3 can be flown with a drivers license, and I have opted for the additional "basic med."

So, old guys, we are facing either going bare or risking a "medical". I am hoping my broker can fix this. I am enjoying what little instructing I am doing.

I fly frequently with a 79 year old guy in a P210 for the sake of keeping him current for his insurance. He also has to do a "mini" flight safety-ish training regimen each year too.

sj
 
That is something that makes me crazy. May want to check and see if you can increase that per person limit to something that makes sense!

cafi
 
Bat is correct. "Per person means when you chop up that little girl that ran out of a hangar her parents get $100,000 + your estate. Per occupant means her parents settle for a million and you keep your house.

Good news (well, makes me look dumb) on page 2 it says that every time "medical" appears in the policy it means "drivers license" if the pilot is operating under Sport rules. So all is good and I can keep on sporadically giving tailwheel checkouts.

Yippee!
 
So if i went to some place and bought a $10,000 american kennel club mutt and i was flying home with the window open and it jumped out, no chute, i would be out of luck then with the word occupant? then i would have to have the dogs parents just sue me for negligence? for not strapping him in. Remeber with insurance, like the saying goes your covered right up to the time of a claim. been there. insurance companies love little stuff, something big your an enemy.
 
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Knowledge is power. Read your policy. Yes...insurance companies are in the business of making money and they do try to get out of paying when the terms of the agreement have not been met. You enter into that agreement when you pay for the policy....and it is all outlined. Each policy has different terms. Some you cant land "off airport" some you cant land above a certain parallel. But it is not mystery. It is all there. How many here have actually read the policy? Take a few minutes and do it before you need it. You may find you need to change companies if you aren't covered for the type of flying you do...but isn't it better to know now before you need it?

Hope this doesn't sound like a rant. I have just been in the insurance industry for 35 years it is always amazed me that people paid so much for their insurance but had no idea what they were paying for. Yes... I have read our policies.

cafi
 
In the most respectful way, i disagree, it is virtually impossible to state everything that is covered and what isnt. lots of it is interpetation and mood. Basics yes you can get somewhat of an idea whats covered but the unknown will bite you. and if its not in the policy then like bob says the lawyers will go after your personal being or estate. so moral of the story be happy and hope and pray nothing happens. See i got bit and bit hard. and i wasnt even around when the deal happened. but im not going into here. lawyers are your best friend either for or for somebody against you with insurance companies. trouble is today there really is no alternative to either.
 
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Mine does not show a limit "per person." Just $1,000,000.
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Every insurance policy has definitions. If you look there it will give you the actual meaning as it pertains to your policy. Usually in the very beginning.

cafi
 

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My advise is read the declarations page first, then the exclusions and limitations. But definitely read the entire thing. It doesn't take long.
 
Im going to leave this thread alone now, but i would really feel good about making one more statement. Dont ever talk to an adjuster after a major without a lawyer present, EVER!! As bad as i hated to say that. and Remember the ins company heads and the lawyers go fishing together after a days work.
 
Sounds like your experience was far less that pleasant. Sorry to hear that.

The insurance company is supposed to represent you...but you do need all the information you can get.
 
I agree with Cafi. More importantly, do not take anyone's word for it - get it in writing. If you are a CFI or an ATP, be very careful about riding in your rich buddy's Extra, Cirrus, or Carbon Cub. Even if you get a waiver of subrogation, if you do not have liability insurance of your own, a plaintiff's lawyer can cause you great financial pain just in lawyer fees.

Never assume that being "named" gives you any protection. Never!
 
In the most respectful way, i disagree, it is virtually impossible to state everything that is covered and what isnt. lots of it is interpetation and mood. Basics yes you can get somewhat of an idea whats covered but the unknown will bite you. ….

I agree, kinda. Yes, sometimes there is some judgement calls & interpretation involved.
But if they say something is NOT covered, then that's petty well written in stone.
For example, I used to have a policy that stated that I was NOT covered when landing on anything other than a recognized airport,
UNLESS an emergency had been declared. That's pretty easy for them to check, after the fact.
And if I was not within radio range of an ATC facility to declare my emergency to?
Guess I'd be out of luck.
BTW that sort of "off-airport exclusion" was not uncommon, at least a few years ago.
 
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