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Anyone have experince with AQUA 3190s ?????

Oh I have flown EDO 2960s.
I just do not like the narrow tops for: 1. loading cargo & gear,... 2. the narrow hatch door,... 3. passenger movement without generating a law suit or.... 4. fishing from the plane. They are not my favorite float for step turns or heel beaching either. I much prefer the PK-3000 or 3500C for step turns, loading, fishing and heel beaching. ( Did you know they only made around 115 sets of PK-3000s)

And the sides tend to dent rather easily on the 2960s compared to the thicker metal of the PKs. Something that comes into play when you have students docking 20 times a day.

I do like the 2960s for idle taxi maneuvering and docking. Having the rudders way back in a different time zone really helps at low speeds. Plus the back ends sit low when the plane is loaded and gives you a good keel effect.

Of course now that I have removed 10 pounds of 1960s era Bondo filler from all the dents in my 2960s, I will not have to worry about any extra dents. In fact maybe all the dents will make me go faster.\

Now I need to finish removing all the old layers from the top decks. ( been do that for 3 days) and then I can start on the bottoms.

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PeterDillion: I do not think I can legally put 3430s on a 180. Even if it has the 185 fuselage and tail.
 
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I am sorta amazed this thread has gone on this long and there has not been one peep mentioned about one of the finest
floats ever available for 180/185's. The PK 3000 ??? Alex if you have not flown them or know of them it would certainly
be in your interest to look into them. When the old standard in Alaska was 2960's for private use, and 3430s on most commercial use, it amazed me how few guys knew about the awesome performance of PK 3000 floats???? The perform very similar to 2870/2960 getting onto the step in a hurry, do not require being "flap jacked" out of the water like 2960's
(sorry Pete) and when fully loaded aft, the PK's have a LOT more aft floatations than either of those edos. If you don't believe it try walking two guys down to your water rudders and see what happens with 2960s! Super light the Edos really work nice but round tops suck to work off, the big flat 3430's are good but heavy........ PK 3500 are nice in really rough water; but really are a" completely different animal" than 3000's so don't put them in the same sentence as 3000's for lightly loaded performance. I don't want to run the Aquas down but but performance wise they are coming in low on the list for a reason........ They may have
changed them some over the years but some of the 3190s I flew years ago felt a lot like early PK 3500's , heavy.
If you got the denaro the Aerocets are the way; especially if your going super heavy all the time. But for instructing and general blasting around AK the 3000's are perfect. Reasonable price, terrific performance, nice to work off, superb aft floation, super effective water rudder control in swift river etc.
Just for a reference the Maine Warden Service has been running C180's (2870's)since 1956; and 185's since the late 1960's(with every float ever built) and being a government operation; with very deep pockets; they could run ANY floats they
want to, But after 62 years of banging around in Skywagons all of their aircraft; are on PK3000's. They are extremely popular back here yet you hardly ever see a set of them in Alaska??? I used to routinely operate a RSTOL 185 on Pk 3000 out of the 450' slew that was south off the mouth of Upper Talarick Ck , after dropping off clients in the early 90s. We also went in there with a real hot Beaver with the big Ag blade on it, but it's not a place you ever saw many floatplanes! Food for thought Alex! I see a set for sale in Canada
for 8K if I were looking for set of floats for C180/185 I wouldn't hesitate to make the call.
Good Luck
e
 
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Interesting info on the PK 3000. Never had a set but did hear good comments. Nice to have other good options. Had 3500C's they seemed heavy but were super tough and preformed decent. Pretty slow in the air but probably no worse that 3430's. We used to always run the 2960's with the back covers under water when taxiing admittedly not in real big water. While a lot of people pulled flaps we always would just stay at 2 notches and lift one float to avoid dragging the tails. With the same real heavy load the 3430's would get on the step faster but the 2960's were still airborne sooner and 8 - 10 knots faster. The biggest thing that the new floats offer is the great storage compartments and its hard to beat Aerocet on that one. Even the 2200's will take 4 gerry cans per side which is a real game changer.
 
Actually they are mentioned in this thread.
There are ONE set of PK-3000s locally and I love them. I have flown one other 180 on PK3000s as well. Great floats. They only made about 115 sets of PK-3000s according to the folks at PK. That is why almost NONE are up here.
I even like the 3500"C"models.

The problem is that the PK-3000s do not allow me to use my 3,190 pound legal gross weight on my modified 180J.

In the old days it would have been easy to get a field approval based upon the fact that they have a higher gross weight on a C-185, and that basically my late model 180 with the big tail and bigger engine is basically the same airframe as a 185. Not so sure about it now. The best guy for field approvals down at the Juneau FISDO has gone elsewhere. Maybe if I had a few months to wait. which I do not...

I was ordering a set of AEROCETS when the wife came looking over my shoulder.
Wife: " Wow, only $8000 for those floats you always wanted?"
ME; " Well that is just the down-payment deposit "
Wife: "Let me see the total cost"
ME .... CLICK
WIFE: " %$@$%*__((& !!!!"
ME: "Yeah they are kinda spendy but we can afford them."
Wife: " There is no WE, in this deal. You already bought a new plane. Can you make enough this summer to cover that cost?"
Me; " Ahhh. not really....But I was thinking ... "
Wife: " Yeah, well I am not busting my ass to help with your %&*(()_ hobby job !! I wanna buy a house down south with a pool before I get too old !"
Me; "Well its back to scrapping the paint off the old 2960s...".
 
In five years the Aerocets will retain most of their initial acquisition value. 2960s? Good luck finding a buyer. It's all in how you look at it. It could be argued that brand new Aerocets are the better investment.
 
Weights installed on a 180 or 185
EDO-2870s = 387 pounds
EDO-2960s = 425 pounds
PK-3000 = 424 pounds
PK-3500C= 442 pounds
CAP 3000s = 422 pounds
Wipaire Straight 3000 = 432 pounds
EDO 3430s = ?????? around 460 pounds.
Aerocet 3500L = 448 pounds
Wipaire straight 3450s = 491 pounds
 
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In five years the Aerocets will retain most of their initial acquisition value. 2960s? Good luck finding a buyer. It's all in how you look at it. It could be argued that brand new Aerocets are the better investment.

And less likely to have a 75 year old fishing client with a gamey leg bust his or her knee by slipping off the top of the floats.
 
When I got my instrument rating at Kenmore in 1979, I worked on the ramp to earn extra money and get the 50% discount it offered at the time. I stayed with Greg Munro. They had about half dozen C 180s on 2960's that flew charter
everyday that I used to get my rating. The 2960s were weird to me and I didn't like them compared to 2870s. And having just gotten done flying a 185 on PK3000's I really didn't like them......I almost sent Bill Peters , Jerry Rader, and Greg into cardiac arrest raving about PK 3000 floats!! Of course being Edos big outlet on the west coast, droning on about PK 3000s
really was not politically correct especially when your staying with the Munro's! The original prototype of the 3000 was a 2950, and I am not sure what they changed to the 3000 but do know this, a post 64 C 180 on 2960's heavily loaded aft is sorta a "sinking ship" compared to the same exact load on PK 3000s . Regardless of what is on the data tags. Getting broadside in big whitecaps in a later C180 on 2960s heavly loaded aft isn't a good place to be. (Even with insurance and a wet suit) We flew 206's out of Fiji when the standard load on PK 3500Cs was 3 passengers, 3 heavy suitcases, when the air temp was often in the 90 degree range, and flat calm common! Now that will brings a whole new meaning to the term "the slippery spot" lol. Not to pick on Edos as the reverse is true, with a Cub on Edo 2000 vs PK 1800s while the data tags indicate 200lbs of extra floatations for the Edos it will feel more like 500lbs extra rocking around in big swells; I found 1800s
to be almost identical to 1650's as far as what they hold up.
For me if you are running a business and going heavy all the time and handling many hundreds of thousands of dollars every summer where a write off would be advantageous than stepping up for a plate full of $35,000 Aerocets is the only
thing on the menu! But for a smaller operation not needing the write off, or hauling max loads constantly, in big wind conditions. The PK 3000 is the answer, especially when they are down to $7/8 k............ jm2cw
 
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Turbo,
All of what you've said is correct with one important exception. Alex needs a set of floats in order to utilize his higher gross weight legally. The PK 3000s don't allow this.
 
Not to mention that finding a set of PK-3000s in Alaska is darn near impossible. The couple sets available are in Eastern Canada. I would have to have them inspected by a third party or fly there myself. Then break them down for long range shipping and then pay some sort of re-import duty. All the while not knowing if I could ever obtain a field approval.
 
I hear ya both! Just at the PK float factory a few mins ago and told Keith Strange I was stirring the soup a little bit,
And everyone got to laughing and Keith said to give em hel(........
 
Keith Strange is a good guy.
He helped me A LOT with my last set of PKs. All they need to do is amend their installation STC to include the higher gross weight for the last couple models of 180s with the Kenmore Tail STC. Since those are really a 185 airframe at that point and since the floats are ALREADY approved at a higher gross weight for 185s, it should be no problem. But whomever was answering my e-mails thought it would be.

I like PKs for rough water, like I get on Tustumeana Lake and Skilak Lake. The flat panel sections of the PKs do not water slap on waves like the fluted bottoms of the 2960s. Plus the rear compartments on the PKs are wider and deeper so the tails do not sink as much.
 
My high time (mid-upper 20K) neighbor at the float pond has a C-185 IO-520 on PK 3000's. Belly pod w/gear, 3-4 SOB, fuel, sunk to the rear spreader some days while taxiing. He likes to work the elevators to get on step but takes off in a reasonable distance unless it's real calm and warm. Impressive for a PK float. He added a 3-blade Mac a few years back which he said really helps.

Gary
 
Tell you what, as hard as it is to find dock space here every summer, I am about ready to sacrifice a seat space and go amphib.
I wonder if EDO 3500s are too heavy ?? There is a nice set in Sitka.
 
Tell you what, as hard as it is to find dock space here every summer, I am about ready to sacrifice a seat space and go amphib.
I wonder if EDO 3500s are too heavy ?? There is a nice set in Sitka.
EDO 3500s have never been approved on a Cessna 180. That's beside being a sacrifice of about 300 pounds.
 
So they are heavy.
The old 2790s are approved, I have no idea how much they weigh but I have seen people trying to leave a lake with them...Then there are the super expensive Aerocet 3400s ( 651 pounds installed , so I would loose 200 pounds ) and Wip 3000 Amphib.

Oh well, just a random thought. Dock space is a premium around here and the water is corrosive.
 
Yes the 2790s are approved at a reduced gross weight due to floatation requirements. 3100 lbs limit. You would also have to consider the 180 to be a two place airplane. I just don't see you being satisfied based on your description of what you need. Yes they are good floats but in my opinion you would be much happier with your 2960s.

I can get you the weights if you like in the morning.
 
...Then there are the super expensive Aerocet 3400s ( 651 pounds installed , so I would loose 200 pounds )
Is this 651 lbs after you deduct the weight of the land gear or before? That number is considerably less than the EDO 3500s 765 lbs from which you deduct the land gear.
 
A lot of maintenance on those older amphibs so need to take that into consideration. Always repacking wheels, brakes, gear issues, pump and electrical switches etc on those old 2790s. We used to run some pretty heavy loads with them on 185s but yikes a bit scary in big water. They would be useless on a standard 180. With amphibs running empty it feels like your half loaded. Never liked that part even with the Aerocets so unless you really need them I would agree with the previous post that you may not be happy. We had a 185 with a IO550 on Aerocet 3400's and they were absolutely trouble free. As you figured earlier 3430's not approved for 180's. Another float that would be an option although hard to find is the CAP 3000 D model. They were built in Canada but approved in the US on a 180. They are round top but the fastest float in that group for sure. I have never personally flown a set but had friends that had them. Got off the water as well as the 2960's with a big load. Everybody that I knew that had them liked them. Can't remember the floatation on them of hand but they were used on 185s so they will be as high as 2960s I am sure.
 
I have flown a 185 on CAP 3000s a few times. I like the Capt Nemo look of the back ends. They did OK.

PETE: 650lbs is the totally assembly weight of the Aerocet 3400s , as compared to 450lbs for the 3500Ls straight floats. So you loose an extra 200 pounds of useful load by going amphib with Aerocets. Oddly enough the Wip 3000 amphibs are 20 or 30 pounds lighter.
 
Another vote for CAP 3000 floats. They’re tough and perform, flown right. I’ve flown both 180 and 185 on them and liked both. Flat top floats are nice, if you don’t mind paying for them.....

And everything Peter Dillon said about those old EDO amphibs is right on. EDO 3500s are HUGE floats, derived from EDO 4000 straights, not approved on the 180 and way too big in any case.

MTV
 
Pete: Here is what passes as the Public Mooring area here on Beluga Lake. And this guy picked a good spot with smaller rocks. He was nailed by a strong wind on his tail in the middle of the night. Those lines are tied to the main road guard rail.
 

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I'd build a floating ramp before tying up like that to a steep bank. There was one next to my old parking space for years that a C-185 used. The bare wood got slippery from algae but carpeting fixed that. But maybe Homer would require it to be licensed as a vessel and have Coast Guard registration. Some local folks have given up on shore parking and just use a pull out trailer when done for the day.

Gary
 
Alex I gotta agree with you about 2790 floats and watching them "try" to take off ! That is a great choice of words. Probably the absolute poorest choice you could ever make! Don't forget all the older amphibian floats used the most bouyant compartment for the main gear! And that comes at a huge price, a C180 on them loaded in a stiff breeze isnt
really a floatplane it's a submarine. P Dillion has given you great advise........ I am going to say you will get more pratice
with aborted takeoffs then you have in your whole career! And make darn sure your insurance is up to snuff, cause a common view of 2790's on a C180 is bottoms up! They would be the worst idea you could ever come up with......
Good luck
e
 
Alex,

Just call up the Red River Bank in Halstad, MN and take out a loan on a brand new set of Aerocets......Simple.

MTV
 
Alex and others might need some of these


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Glenn
 
I have actually made over-stuffed bumpers. It does not help anything for a steep and rocky shoreline. If I cannot obtain dock space this year I will have to make a floating fender-dock of some sort, OR pull my plane out of the water every night on a trailer.
 

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As Gary suggested, build a wood ramp. Weight the outboard end so that it'll sink a bit to protect your floats when you ramp them. Ramp it, then get out and muscle it around to the heels are toward the shore, tie it down. Put in some duck bill earth anchors in the bottom beside the ramp, or just tie the plane to the ramp. In the morning, preflight, load up, fire up, warm up, and power off the ramp.

Only real down side is, as Gary noted, they get slicker than snot with algae. Some wing walk or similar along the sides helps with that.

We kept our floatplanes on a floating ramp at our remote camp on Kodiak all the time, worked great, even in some big blows.

MTV
 
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