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Toe brakes vs Heel brakes

SinCityJets

Registered User
I’m building a super cub. All my previous planes have had toe brakes, however none of them have been tail-draggers. I have very little tail wheel time, so I’m fine with learning either.

What do do people find easier to learn and what is more “useful” once you gain more skill.

Thanks as always!

Chad
 
The people that learned on toe brakes love them. I am like you 16,000 plus hours on toe brakes. I hate them.
 
Toe brakes seem totally unnatural to me. Heel brakes are almost unconscious in their use. Guess it depends on what you are used to .


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I find that airplanes with “mass” (perhaps a Cessna 210) require braking after landing. If you don’t get on the brakes some, it will roll for miles. Whereas a 900 pound tail dragged is going to be nearly stopped when you touch down.

And a Cub has a very responsive tailwheel. In short, you rarely touch the brakes (compared to other planes you may have been flying).
 
I’m fairly new to heel brakes and Supercub flying in general. But I actually don’t mind them and it really didn’t take that long to get used to them. This is after thousands of hours in toe brake planes. I fly weekly in both a Cub and a C-140 and changing between the two is no big deal. The heel brakes will stay.
 
I go back and forth between them and don’t think twice.


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Same here. I have toe brakes in the Actoduster and heel in the Spezio and will fly both in the same day......

Of coarse I'm 99% on grass so I seldom use brakes except for run-up.

Jack
 
Never had that problem with toe brakes in 45 years of flying. I learned heel brakes but prefer toe brakes. Happy that my 180 has them although I have to get used to them again. Different strokes for different folks.

To use the brakes instead of the rudders!

I wish I could convert my C-180 to heel brakes!

sj
 
Flying a stick with throttle in right hand feels weird. Flying an airplane from the right seat feels weird. Flying a helicopter from the left seat feels weird. Cub with toe brakes feels weird. Cessna with heel brakes would feel weird. For me it’s all about what I’ve been used to!
 
I’m building a super cub. All my previous planes have had toe brakes, however none of them have been tail-draggers. I have very little tail wheel time, so I’m fine with learning either.

What do do people find easier to learn and what is more “useful” once you gain more skill.

Thanks as always!

Chad

Exp Cub? Kit? What brakes come with it?
 
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Like Eddie I have thosands of hours with toe brakes, and prefer heel brakes for the Cub. My Decathlon has toe brakes, but it is not designed for landings - it is an aerobatics trainer. I go back and forth without thought.

It wasn't always that way - after maybe 15,000 hours with toe brakes and only a mere 5000 with heel, I was digging my heels in the floorboards to stop the Dec.

A Cub probably should have heel brakes. Lighter, less prone to hitting the firewall or the front seat belt, and best of all, that light touch on the rudder pedals that makes coordinated maneuvering an art form. Try a Tango Cub. You will instantly be converted to heel brakes!

Opinion.
 
Heel brakes are easier when you are in bunny/hunting/stiff boots. So if you are going to be doing cold weather/remote flying something to consider. Also I see some cubs without rear stick/brakes. Might get hard to find a CFI that will do tailwheel/Bi-annual training keep that in mind when building. If you plan to go off runway in short rough strips you will use your brakes every landing. I learned with toe brakes and they work fine you just have to be very careful with big footwear or you will apply brake every time you push the rudder. From a resale or letting other pilots up front standpoint I would go with heel brakes. If you do go with toe brakes make sure you have both max rudder travel with max brake travel combined when you set them up so you do not hit the firewall. If the rudder mounts are already on the frame they may have to be moved with toe brakes.
DENNY
 
Scenario: Your airplane swerves left, you apply right rudder to stop the swerve. Then, lots of rudder. But it’s not enough, so now you need brake. Where is that heel brake? Taking your foot off that rudder pedal to reach the brake isn’t the best.....but with heel brakes, it’s what you’ve got.

Personally, either heel brakes or toe brakes require some training and discipline. With heel brakes, you need to be able to find them, sometimes fairly fast......not that tough, but an acquired skill.

With toe brakes, you have to learn to land with your heels on the floor, and just your tippy toes on the base of those pedals, or someday, you’ll push on a pedal, trying for rudder and get a bunch of brake.

The key to either is figuring those issues out. Once you do that, they’re both easy enough to master.

And, recently, a gent I was flying with reminded me of the perils of toe brakes and big feet. No harm, I screamed “Off the brakes!” Rather loudly, actually.

Pick one and learn its quirks. They’re both good systems....When set up right......

MTV
 
I like the heal brakes.

But I don't mind either. I probably had 10k hours when I first flew with them. Unfortunately almost an other 10 since then.

I agree with DENNY's point about clod hopping boots. Heel brakes then.

Either are fine.
 
Heel brakes: If the plane slows too quickly on the ground the foot is forced forward via momentum. To un-connect the heel from the brake pedals takes lots of muscle power and memory to pull the legs back and the heel off. Rudder control may be compromised unless the toes are pushed forward.

Toe brakes: Same scenario re momentum but a set of smaller muscles on the forelegs can rotate the toes rearward while leaving the feet on the rudder pedals and the heels on the floor. Rudder control may be maintained.

My experience only.

Gary
 
Chad, The first question that needs to be answered is, do you have long or short legs? If they are long like mine there will not be enough room to install toe brakes. I had to move the seat back an extra inch, remove the rear stick and still wish that I had a little more leg room. Toe brakes take up a couple of inches of leg room.
 
What are you building? I recall your last query was about whether to buy CC or Legend.

Are you building one of their kits or one from someone else?

Rich
 
I learned to fly in a PA16 Clipper with toe brakes and never had an issue with them. Started flying a 90 hp Super Cub and it was different but became second nature really quick. I go back and forth between the two airplanes with no issues. I prefer the heel brakes in a Super Cub having flown Huskys, Carbon Cubs and the X Cub.
 
It shouldn’t matter. It’s like having a discussion about what’s better, a stick or a wheel. For many years a friend and I ferried his Super Cub (heel brakes) and his Stearman (toe brakes) from Long Island to Florida in the fall and back in the spring. At every fuel stop we would swap airplanes. Neither of us ever thought about it.

Rich
 
After almost 25,000 hrs with toe brakes, when (late in my Aviation life) I finally learned (and still learning) to fly a tail dragger, heel brakes gave e a little problem at first. I got accustomed to them very fast and wouldn’t want to switch them out for toe brakes. Like one person said, they can remove the temptation to do something you really don’t want to do. It’s strictly a matter of preference. Besides, it’s a Cub, you won’t need a lot of brakes normally.
 
Speaking of heel brakes, while in San Diego over the weekend I got to scare Bob Turner from the back seat of one of his J3's. Great fun! Bob is a consummate aviator and instructor (as we know from his many wise posts here).

If you are anywhere near KMYF look him up, or rather, just look up - as he is probably already in the pattern!

Yes, I am prepared for comments about my hat.

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In a Cub, heel brakes for me. It just feels natural in a Cub. I have never had any problem finding the brake pedal when I really needed it. And there is virtually no possibility of accidentally touching down with brakes applied. (This can and has happened in airplanes with toe brakes.) And the installation is lighter and simpler to boot. Heel brakes would be my choice.
 
I never know where my feet are with heel brakes, they just naturally go to the correct place. I always know where my feet are when landing with toe brakes. The best rudder pedal and toe brake setup is on a Stearman

Glenn
 
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