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Thread: O-320 HP increase options and prop questions

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Yes Stewart, I'd enjoy looking at the dyno report. Dunno if you still have my email, it's gordon dot misch at gmail. Thanks for the offer.
    Would you mind sending me a copy of the dyno report ? Assuming it is the upgraded O-320 with mods .

  2. #42

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    Not a 320. Mine's an IO-400. I chose the tried and true method for producing horsepower and torque. There's no replacement for displacement.
    Last edited by stewartb; 03-18-2018 at 08:15 AM.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Not a 320. Mine's an IO-400. I chose the tried and true method for producing horsepower and torque. There's no replacement for displacement.
    If I didn't already have an engine I would have gone the O-360 route but I really only needed to change cylinders, figured some cheap extra HP wouldn't go astray. That said my neighbor with
    O-360 and the identical plane in comparison to my aircraft would be considered a poor performer. His plane is much heavier because of the engine, larger floats the large fixed pitch pawnee prop
    and heavier aircraft overall. I break water in half the distance and climb better, even have a slightly better useful considering his fuel burden. He can cruise faster though , 115mph vs my 95mph.

    My 172 is almost 150lb lighter , the bigger engine would have been heavier, required a bigger prop and bigger floats . For smaller lakes, I can already outperform his aircraft, I'm sure that gap would
    close if he could use a Catto or other better prop. His aircraft is certified, he cannot deviate, mine is owner maintenance so I can put on experimental props.

  4. #44
    PerryB's Avatar
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    Do your homework before putting a Catto (or any other lightweight prop) on a high compression engine. This subject was being discussed a couple years ago and some valid concerns were raised regarding the lack of flywheel in conjunction with the more pronounced impulse and deceleration cycles of the high compression engine. You might have some undesirable harmonics.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    Do your homework before putting a Catto (or any other lightweight prop) on a high compression engine. This subject was being discussed a couple years ago and some valid concerns were raised regarding the lack of flywheel in conjunction with the more pronounced impulse and deceleration cycles of the high compression engine. You might have some undesirable harmonics.

    Thanks for the heads up, I did indeed read the comments in that thread. Seems there are actually pros and cons for both. The heavier metal props have a better idle , start better with less kickback however the high compression engines are thought to have caused tips to come off due to the hard pulses of high compression. The Catto , wooden composite absorb the high compression pulses better and appear to run smoother however they don't idle so well, have been known to kick back during start because of the lack of mass/flywheel. They save around 15+ lbs , in the event of a prop strike the crank does not get damaged like a metal prop.

    I have not heard/read any comments that suggest the hard pulses from high compression pistons have caused a failure with Catto . I have read and actually witnessed a failed Warp Drive propeller from a high compression O-320.

  6. #46

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    Lots of stuff can get hurt even with a wood prop strike. If you understand the HP modifications you purpose are not cumulative, I would do them if that is what you want and leave the prop until you see how it performs with all the mods. The other issue not posted is CHT!! High compression pistons make a lot of heat. Do you have a 4 cylinder CHT/EGT? Fuel flow would also be nice. Do you really want you limit yourself to 100LL for all you flying?? I don't think P mags help HP at sea level (I could be wrong). In general high HP from small engines means shorter life. Just things to ponder, you have had great advice for others.
    DENNY
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
    That said my neighbor with O-360 and the identical plane in comparison to my aircraft would be considered a poor performer. His plane is much heavier because of the engine, larger floats the large fixed pitch pawnee prop and heavier aircraft overall. I break water in half the distance and climb better, even have a slightly better useful considering his fuel burden. His aircraft is certified, he cannot deviate, He can cruise faster though , 115mph vs my 95mph.
    I realize that you are in Canada with different rules. I question your friends approval of that prop. If you look at the TC data sheet for that engine prop combination you will find that it is not approved with a long diameter.

    Also he would get better performance by reducing the weight on the nose either with a lighter prop or by the addition of ballast in the tail.
    N1PA

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Lots of stuff can get hurt even with a wood prop strike. If you understand the HP modifications you purpose are not cumulative, I would do them if that is what you want and leave the prop until you see how it performs with all the mods. The other issue not posted is CHT!! High compression pistons make a lot of heat. Do you have a 4 cylinder CHT/EGT? Fuel flow would also be nice. Do you really want you limit yourself to 100LL for all you flying?? I don't think P mags help HP at sea level (I could be wrong). In general high HP from small engines means shorter life. Just things to ponder, you have had great advice for others.
    DENNY
    Yes indeed, a prop strike is a prop strike, all things considered though, if the prop can absorb the energy and break the crank could be saved. Avoiding a prop strike is probably a good thing to do. I know the HP modifications are not cumulative, indeed they do overlap and I do understand the heat penalty and longevity . I do have a EIS engine monitor with 4 X's EGT, CHT , Fuel Flow, M.P., O.T, O.P, Carb Temp, OAT, RPM . I also have the cylinders done with a alodine coating that reduces heat and I have made
    changes under the cowl to reduce heat. Baffles are going to be given special treatment and I have removed the vacuum pump a source of major heat. The P-mags are more effective at altitude I agree but they also do have a fuel savings component and run cooler , also idles MUCH slower which for floats is a good thing .

    The 100LL thing is a biggie, price doubles immediately and availability is a PITA. Today I have to make the decision to go stock 8.5:1, 9.5:1 or 10:1 pistons. 10:1 I have to go 100% Avgas, most power most heat. 9.5:1 I can use a 50/50 mix most of the time and many use straight Auto to get out of a pinch once in a while. A little less HP and less heat. 8.5:1 I can still run 100% auto fuel, however I do get the major advantage of port & Polish plus flow balancing supposed to be 20HP over the stock , probably no additional heat so CHT not an issue .

    As I'm writing this all down, I'm thinking the most advantage will come with port/polish and flow matching, and 4 new cylinders , likely 75% of the benefits. I was headed for 10:1 but thinking about this I may really stick with stock and see how this works and then if I want, switch to 10:1 later . I have another 6 hours to decide, time to dig in and make the decision.
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I realize that you are in Canada with different rules. I question your friends approval of that prop. If you look at the TC data sheet for that engine prop combination you will find that it is not approved with a long diameter.

    Also he would get better performance by reducing the weight on the nose either with a lighter prop or by the addition of ballast in the tail.
    That prop is approved on his 172 with O-360 . His plane is certified, he cannot deviate from that . I'm not 100% sure what the prop is, my mechanic simply said it was a BIG prop, similar or same as that found on a pawnee . I fund this , maybe that is what he is using : http://www.univair.com/propellers/mc...ley-propeller/ it's 84-52 , would account for why he cruises so fast I suppose.

  11. #51
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
    it's 84-52 , would account for why he cruises so fast I suppose.
    That's also why you can whoop him getting out.
    N1PA
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  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    That's also why you can whoop him getting out.
    This is what you posted a while back : The 1P235 prop is approved under Type Certificate number P12EA.
    NOTE 9. Table of Propeller-Engine Combinations Approved Vibrationwise for Use on Normal Category Single Engine Tractor Aircraft

    The maximum and minimum propeller diameters that can be used from a vibration standpoint are shown below. No reduction below the minimum diameter listed is permissible since this figure includes the diameter reduction allowable for repair purposes.


    Model Engine Model
    1P235/AFA Lycoming O-540 &IO-540 series, with one 5th and one-6th order crankshaft damper configuration (up to 260 hp @2700 rpm) Max. Dia. 84(Inches) Min. Dia. 77(Inches) Placards None

    1P235/PFA Lycoming O-360 series (up to 180 hp @2700 rpm) Max. Dia. 78(Inches) Min. Dia. 74(Inches) Placards None

    1B235/BFA Lycoming IO-360 series (up to 200 hp @2700 rpm) Max. Dia. 78(Inches) Min. Dia. 74(Inches) Placards None

    This tells me that the 1P235 prop IS approved on the Lycoming 0-360 with the diameters indicated. You should not have to show that the engine and prop combination is approved on a TC'd airplane, just that they themselves are approved.

    I'd say he is Not using the 84-52, looks to be for a larger engine . His would be max 78 inches for the 189HP and that does not make sense for floats, and yes this is why I can whoop him getting out of the water. When he had the O-320 and Borer I was still ahead by a margin. I have a much lighter aircraft, better floats, STOL, gap seals, VG's, bush seats, etc. Even then there was no contest really, all the mods, especially the lighter aircraft all add up. For the lakes he fly's from, his cruise is probably the asset, a quicker take-off is really no benefit . I do use smaller ponds and rivers that he could never dream of though, that's where the climb prop makes sense , for any combination.

  13. #53
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Your Eddie Peck wide 2000s are a big improvement on their own. I used to have a stock 172N on 2130s which was a big improvement over the 2000s. This was particularly noticeable in my 1000 foot long pond. That was a really nice airplane which in a way I wish that I still owned. I was renting it out and someone wrecked it.
    N1PA

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Your Eddie Peck wide 2000s are a big improvement on their own. I used to have a stock 172N on 2130s which was a big improvement over the 2000s. This was particularly noticeable in my 1000 foot long pond. That was a really nice airplane which in a way I wish that I still owned. I was renting it out and someone wrecked it.
    Eddy's floats are actually 2250 and yes, they are a major contributor to my stellar performance. My 1967 is one of the lightest 172's made , you have a head start from the get go . I'm still making improvements, next up is my options for pistons during the current O-320 rebuild happening now ( 10:1 vs 9.5:1 or stock 8.5:1) . Then there is prop , catto 84-37 vs the Borer 1A175 82-45 I currently have . I have to make the engine piston choice today, prop can wait until later .

  15. #55
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    Someone else probably already mentioned this but dyno ratings do not take into account exhaust systems. The rating is for unfettered running without back pressure under ideal circumstances. Even the factory rating is such. IMHO the ratings are optimistic in real life, and I maintain that engines and planes are as individual as people. Is it luck? Personality? Who knows. 99% science, a little bit of art and good karma. Ive got two identical O360''s, one with and the other without flow balance. I'm not sure that the "without" doesn't run better. Different props. So many variables, air box tweaks, cowl fluctuations, maybe minor exhaust differences, prop balance.

    Comment #2. If you're planning on mixing Avgas and auto 50/50, just exactly how well and with what system will you ensure a complete mix? Is it worth the work and risk? I would err on the side of... "OK with auto only" and then run what you need or like. I know -- I get 3 cents change from my nickel.
    Last edited by WhiskeyMike; 03-20-2018 at 12:19 PM.
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  16. #56

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    So I run an E2D with 9:1's and new Lycoming cylinders. Heat is my biggest problem. Makes great power, who knows how much but I can hold my own. The higher the CR the higher the heat. In Florida with high temps summer it has to be managed. Richen and relax the climb. At cruise is not the problem , its the climb out. Out west same problem only worse. Leaning for power reduces my cooling from altitudes of 6 to 11k. just things to take into consideration when trying to make hp at 100mph. Cowling is tight and flow is to specs. Opened the carb to 14gph plus and flow tested to improve the cooling opotion . Maybe more. NO autogas, the stuff smells.
    Last edited by Fortysix12; 03-20-2018 at 07:12 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
    Eddy's floats are actually 2250 and yes, they are a major contributor to my stellar performance. My 1967 is one of the lightest 172's made , you have a head start from the get go . I'm still making improvements, next up is my options for pistons during the current O-320 rebuild happening now ( 10:1 vs 9.5:1 or stock 8.5:1) . Then there is prop , catto 84-37 vs the Borer 1A175 82-45 I currently have . I have to make the engine piston choice today, prop can wait until later .
    What c/r did you go with and what camshaft are you using?

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    What c/r did you go with and what camshaft are you using?
    I spoke with a really experience chap who buy these ported and polished cylinders by the pallet load, a engine rebuild shop in Canada. He put everything in perspective pretty much and basically advised the 10:1 on top of my port/polish and flow balance including the powerflow exhaust would really only add about 5hp over the stock pistons. Realistically I will end up in the 180HP territory with the mods I have including 8.5:1 and I can still use auto fuel. I'm going to use a 50/50 mix anyway for the most part to make sure I get enough lubrication, if I don't have the Avgas for back country trips now and then it will not matter, I won't be stuck .


    I'm swinging a borer 82 45 now 2400 static and 2800 wide open throttle . My stock 160 with powerflow was already exceeding what a normal 160 would do. was probably 170hp. I will likely have to pitch the prop to 48 to get correct static and cruise RPM, will try it first and see how it pulls, then make some informed decisions. Will post the results once that happens, will be another month before I hit the water though, lakes here are still frozen.
    I may get a chance to borrow a Catto 84-37 for comparison. It may pull through a climb and give better take-off but it will not compared to the Borer for cruise. the 37 catto max cruise is only 90mph if 100% efficient, I'd expect the Borer to be 100+ on this aircraft . Going to be an interesting experiment, will know in 5 weeks for sure.
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  19. #59

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    According to LyCon's report, the 0-320-B2B they built for the cub, with everything they could throw at a certified engine, dyno'd at 187HP. Flyin at work, but will see if I cant dig up the report for ya when back home if you want.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalywag View Post
    According to LyCon's report, the 0-320-B2B they built for the cub, with everything they could throw at a certified engine, dyno'd at 187HP. Flyin at work, but will see if I cant dig up the report for ya when back home if you want.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Appreciate the feedback . Some claim over 200HP, I suppose with enough compression and RPM it is possible, just not practical nor is it dependable. From what I have seen the mods do not stack on HP in the way some believe, the majority of the mods overlap. Biggest gain is port, polish and flow balancing. My powerflow exhaust is supposed to be good for 15HP, 10:1 pistons 15hp and so on. In reality when you stack up a few of these mods the combos are not 100% cumulative the results are more overlapped. Even with engines claimed to be 185-190hp I have never seen one that swings the prop a O-320 will, not in normal RPM range anyway .

    My new Lyc. cylinders are ported, polished and balanced, I opted to stick with 8.5:1 pistons , I am running a powerflow 4into1 exhaust and dual P mags. Even the addition of the powerflow popped my static RPM 100, I'm expecting about another 100 with the rest, in short about 175HP. Problem is the stock 160HP doesn't make 160HP with the original exhaust, likely only makes 150. The powerflow simply allowed the engine to breath a little better, liley making 165 HP . The other additions combine for another 10HP.

    I'm already over redline with the Borer 82 45 at WOT, the engine will push 2800 , 2450 static. Before the powerflow the static was 2350 and 2700 WOT. I'm sending the prop out to have it pitched 48 see where that lands
    and adjust from there. Certainly a lot more HP but still not a O-360.

  21. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalywag View Post
    According to LyCon's report, the 0-320-B2B they built for the cub, with everything they could throw at a certified engine, dyno'd at 187HP. Flyin at work, but will see if I cant dig up the report for ya when back home if you want.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Short dyno video posted earlier was at Lycon. O320 A2B 160hp conv with all their whistles and bells thrown at it.
    Impressive dyno results but I'd take it with a grain of salt.
    Once installed and mated to certified exhaust and air induction system I'd seriously doubt you're putting out much more than 170hp.
    It would be interesting to do a back to back dyno run with a bone stock 150 O320 to see what gains are accomplished following the Lycon treatment.

    interesting also, Lycon provided a pretty elaborate printout documenting all the engine parameters during dyno - egt, cht each cyl. fuel burn etc.
    None of those data bore any resemblence to real world numbers once engine was installed. They're running open induction, short pipes and 5psi fuel pressure on the dyno, would that account for the discrepancy? Probably.

    No complaints though, smoothe, reliable, pulls hard. Just took awhile to figure out how to manage all the heat it was making.
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  22. #62
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Cylinder heat can be controlled to some extent via pulling back some ignition timing at the expense of max power.

    Gary

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    Like a little timing knob next to the mixture knob?
    maybe you’re onto something....

  24. #64
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Modern engine design has passed most older aircraft and engines. Electric fuel metering fed by atmospheric and engine data sensors, wide band exhaust O2 sensors, pre-detonation knock or cylinder post-combustion ionizing sensing, and so on. For us not going to happen except for perhaps adjustable timing (manual or auto) optimized for various engine loads as suggested, and exhaust wide band O2 sensing now readily available for motor products.

    Adapting a 4-channel wide band O2 sensor to a 4-cylinder engine will mimic to a degree the output from installed EGT probes, but allow the pilot to refine the EGT product and determine if the air/fuel is common or divergent between cylinders. Also if the fuel controller...carb or injection...provides the desired air/fuel ratio for max economy (14.7:1) or power (~13:1) at various throttle/prop load settings at the current density altitude.

    The timing knob and somewhat similar manual turbo waste gate control makes me wonder how implement and then successfully monitor the results. Not part of this thread but there may be fixed timing options as I noted to help control critical engine parameters like excessive heat. For example retard below factory setting would be the heat reducing option.

    Low airspeed and high power in cruise are often mutually exclusive if heat control is critical.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 03-30-2018 at 02:12 AM.
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  25. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Modern engine design has passed most older aircraft and engines. Electric fuel metering fed by atmospheric and engine data sensors, wide band exhaust O2 sensors, pre-detonation knock or cylinder post-combustion ionizing sensing, and so on. For us not going to happen except for perhaps adjustable timing (manual or auto) optimized for various engine loads as suggested, and exhaust wide band O2 sensing now readily available for motor products.

    Adapting a 4-channel wide band O2 sensor to a 4-cylinder engine will mimic to a degree the output from installed EGT probes, but allow the pilot to refine the EGT product and determine if the air/fuel is common or divergent between cylinders. Also if the fuel controller...carb or injection...provides the desired air/fuel ratio for max economy (14.7:1) or power (~13:1) at various throttle/prop load settings at the current density altitude.

    The timing knob and somewhat similar manual turbo waste gate control makes me wonder how implement and then successfully monitor the results. Not part of this thread but there may be fixed timing options as I noted to help control critical engine parameters like excessive heat. For example retard below factory setting would be the heat reducing option.

    Low airspeed and high power in cruise are often mutually exclusive if heat control is critical.

    Gary
    Well said. Hard to believe we are still running aircraft engines with 1930's technology, but there it is . I do have dual P-mags going on my engine rebuild, at least the timing will advance and retard based on
    manifold pressure . Liquid cooling, electronic ignition , direct fuel injection should have been part of this process by now, a couple more sensors we could be running auto fuel efficiently, a small turbo to normalize
    atmospheric for altitude.

    Most people don't know that the Subaru engine was developed as a liquid cooled horizontally opposed engine to compete with the air cooled engines . The early engines even had a standard fitting to supply oil for a
    variable pitch propeller . The post war glut of air cooled engines put an end to that effort so the company then designed a car to go around the engine . Probably didn't help the company designing the engine was in
    Japan, at the time, that probably did not go over very well .

  26. #66

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    O2 sensors are one of the biggest falacies in the automotive industry today, everyones check engine lights should tell them that, people are spending millions trying to get that little yellow light to go out. Due to no reliability in those sensors. these sensored up motors are nothing but trouble. Have to add, just get a little moisture or mud in a connection and it throws them way out of wack. on a side note i have a Subaru outback with the boxer motor, thats what they call it, and i love it.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 03-30-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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  27. #67
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    The sensors are subject to contamination from combustion by-products and will eventually wear outer go out of calibration, but a common source of output voltage problems in a low time installation can be solved with proper sealing of the electrical connection to the engine control unit. I don't support that they are inherently unreliable...most of the unreliability is due to the high mileage auto owners that fail to have them examined or replaced at recommended intervals. Emission components like O2 sensors fall within Federal emission compliance and manufacturer warranty requirements which are linked to time and mileage.

    They are primarily there to help the engine controller adjust the current points on the fuel and ignition maps and offer the catalytic convertor units digestible exhaust and prevent overtemp or emissions.

    For experimental aircraft the benefit would be the monitoring of exhaust to optimize intake air and fuel, and with some experimenting, ignition timing. With EGT all we have are engine manufacturer's recommended temps below a variable peak at full throttle WFO for cooling and detonation margins, and then some general guidelines for ops rich and lean of that peak in cruise. Both work but maybe more info would be better for some who want to adjust fuel and ignition for optimum power or economy.

    Gary

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    As you can tell im just not a electrical or sensor person at all, so im just going to stick with my mags. we all look at things a little different i guess. dodge went to 1 size wire smaller on there trucks to cheapskate and it threw all there sensors out of wack adding more resistance in the harnesses.

  29. #69
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    These new electronic mags have promise for power and efficiency. Example only: http://www.electroair.net/index.html there are several products. What I was getting at with timing was the option to adjust it to control heat under certain conditions in Cubs and similar aircraft when added power is available.

    There's only so much cooling air to be optimized given the propeller design, cowling, and airspeed. If power or fuel efficiency is less important than engine heat in certain conditions then it may be an option versus an overly rich mixture.

    I think for cooling the concept of an exhaust augmenter or cowling tunnel would be worth the experiment. CubCrafters has done something similar. Note their outlet to the lower cowl: http://cubcrafters.com

    For experimenting wide band O2 sensors are available (example: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com) and all they take is electrical and a welded bung in the exhaust..either for each header pipe or a collective location. Then rejet the carb or change the FI pulse width or flow to optimize performance.

    Gary
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  30. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    These new electronic mags have promise for power and efficiency. Example only: http://www.electroair.net/index.html there are several products. What I was getting at with timing was the option to adjust it to control heat under certain conditions in Cubs and similar aircraft when added power is available.

    There's only so much cooling air to be optimized given the propeller design, cowling, and airspeed. If power or fuel efficiency is less important than engine heat in certain conditions then it may be an option versus an overly rich mixture.

    I think for cooling the concept of an exhaust augmenter or cowling tunnel would be worth the experiment. CubCrafters has done something similar. Note their outlet to the lower cowl: http://cubcrafters.com

    For experimenting wide band O2 sensors are available (example: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com) and all they take is electrical and a welded bung in the exhaust..either for each header pipe or a collective location. Then rejet the carb or change the FI pulse width or flow to optimize performance.

    Gary
    That lower cowl exit ramp ramp that turns up on the end provides an area of high pressure, it helps to pull hot air from the cowl. Many other aircraft do this as well , the bigger the ramp the more the air is sucked out .
    But Holy Smokes, those XCubs are amazing. They cruise at 140mph, have amazing interiors too, leather seats, memory foam and other beautiful appointments .

  31. #71
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    How does creating an area of high pressure help to pull the air out?

    Quote Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
    That lower cowl exit ramp ramp that turns up on the end provides an area of high pressure, it helps to pull hot air from the cowl. Many other aircraft do this as well , the bigger the ramp the more the air is sucked out .
    But Holy Smokes, those XCubs are amazing. They cruise at 140mph, have amazing interiors too, leather seats, memory foam and other beautiful appointments .
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  32. #72

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    Yes Oliver, all the Ly-con engines I've been involved with have these things in common. Smooth, reliable, strong pullers. The bonus's is the bragging rights of the dyno test. Possibly not real world numbers but bragging rights non the less. I have no complaints and I'd buy another one if I needed it.

  33. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kustatan View Post
    Yes Oliver, all the Ly-con engines I've been involved with have these things in common. Smooth, reliable, strong pullers. The bonus's is the bragging rights of the dyno test. Possibly not real world numbers but bragging rights non the less. I have no complaints and I'd buy another one if I needed it.
    As an update. My rebuilt 0-320 with Lycon ported/polished balanced 9.5:1 pistons , P-mags, Powerflow exhaust swings the Borer 82 X 45 to 2825RPM level and WOT. I'm going to try 82 X 47 pitch with the Borer eventually may even try a
    Whirlwind GA200L 82" propeller .

    Take-off and climb shows a dramatic increase, cruise is the same as expected. With the P-mags and new Garmin G3X I have a better handle on the engine performance, at 2450 RPM cruise I can lean to 6.2 GPH . Biggest difference is the torque for climb and getting out of the hole , worth every penny for sure. Have no idea what is the HP but suffice it to say, it's well beyond what a 160HP is capable of, that is what i had previously .

    If anyone has experience with the GA200L please share, I'm on the fence about this purchase, maybe someone has done this same swap and can share what to expect .

    Cheers
    Thanks CamTom12 thanked for this post
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  34. #74
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
    As an update. My rebuilt 0-320 with Lycon ported/polished balanced 9.5:1 pistons , P-mags, Powerflow exhaust swings the Borer 82 X 45 to 2825RPM level and WOT. I'm going to try 82 X 47 pitch with the Borer eventually may even try a
    Whirlwind GA200L 82" propeller .

    Take-off and climb shows a dramatic increase, cruise is the same as expected. With the P-mags and new Garmin G3X I have a better handle on the engine performance, at 2450 RPM cruise I can lean to 6.2 GPH . Biggest difference is the torque for climb and getting out of the hole , worth every penny for sure. Have no idea what is the HP but suffice it to say, it's well beyond what a 160HP is capable of, that is what i had previously .

    If anyone has experience with the GA200L please share, I'm on the fence about this purchase, maybe someone has done this same swap and can share what to expect .

    Cheers
    did lycon build the engine? Where are the pistons from?

  35. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    did lycon build the engine? Where are the pistons from?
    Rotten minds think alike. I was wondering the same thing......see if you can get us an FA on this one

  36. #76
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Rotten minds think alike. I was wondering the same thing......see if you can get us an FA on this one
    I’ve got a few experimental cub customers who want more power


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  37. #77
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I’ve got a few experimental cub customers who want more power


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I'm not your customers yet, but my stock 360-C4P is looking for more power too....

  38. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    did lycon build the engine? Where are the pistons from?
    Pistons were provided by Lycon, cylinders came from Lycoming direct, were sent to them for porting, flow match and balance. The engine was not completely overhauled, it's currently 500hours SMOH , just decided I wanted the extra power without a weight penalty so went with this upgrade instead of a O-360 . To answer your question I did the upgrade with my engineer . If I didn't already say so, my 172 is in owner maintenance , I can deviate from what is allowed in the certified world within the rules of owner maintenance , what we have done is legal for type. Could be legal for certified too, I do believe this can be done on certified as well. The P-mag is not allowed for certified, everything else I've done certainly is though.

    For reference my friend on the same lake has the same aircraft, his has the O-360 and 2400 floats . My take-off and climb performance is in a different league, I'm literally off the water in half the time and distance. On Sunday we cruised side by side, he has about 10 knots on me for cruise but burns much more fuel, my economy overall is vastly better .

    I did the port balance and flow matching, added the 9.5:1 pistons, have a Powerflow exhaust and one P-mag . As I mentioned I see all the benefits in take-off and climb, with the same fixed pitch prop cruise is the same as expected . Fuel burn at 2450 is actually down , I'm burning 6.2 GPH when leaned just ROP. The P-mag certainly helps to achieve better economy . Overall it's a nice improvement and I get all the benefits coming out of the hole on floats and in climb, exactly where I want . Next I'm considering a new prop, the Whirlwind GA200L 82" ground adjustable . From reports it is supposed to increase cruise by nearly 5% while retaining climb performance. 18 lb weight savings, better cooling, less P-factor and when needed I can adjust the pitch for better cruise or climb .
    Last edited by roxiedog13; 06-13-2019 at 07:45 AM.
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  39. #79
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    LyCon manufactures NFS pistons. I installed some 10.5:1or maybe they were higher pistons in a CAP 232 before the world contest several years ago. Worked good but you have to be aware of temps.
    https://www.nfspistons.com/
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  40. #80
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    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1
    Thanks windy thanked for this post

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