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current $$ for PPonk engine, and Continentals SB's on cam gears

if you aren't a commercial operator TBO doesn't mean much. The better question is will a PPonk run to 2000 hours better than a standard 470? I have my doubts. Heck, Texas Skyways says 2500 hours, right? Marketing is a powerful tool.
 
...Texas Skyways says 2500 hours, right?
I asked Texas Jack once what kind of testing they had to go through in order to get a 2500 hour TBO. His answer surprised me. "Nothing". I pressed him further. How did you get the FAA to sign off on 2500 hours with no testing? "Because we originally asked for 3000 which they wouldn't give us so they compromised at 2500."

And that my friends is the very same FAA that is telling us what we can and can not do to our certificated planes.
 
I asked Texas Jack once what kind of testing they had to go through in order to get a 2500 hour TBO. His answer surprised me. "Nothing". I pressed him further. How did you get the FAA to sign off on 2500 hours with no testing? "Because we originally asked for 3000 which they wouldn't give us so they compromised at 2500."

And that my friends is the very same FAA that is telling us what we can and can not do to our certificated planes.

Pponk steve knopp camped out in front of our hanger hauling fish from west side kvichak to build hours on his 182 with original new engine to new limit then was going to tear down in from of FAA to get higher TBO ... late 80’s/ early 90’s....


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if you aren't a commercial operator TBO doesn't mean much. The better question is will a PPonk run to 2000 hours better than a standard 470? I have my doubts. Heck, Texas Skyways says 2500 hours, right? Marketing is a powerful tool.

I saw a C180 for sale a while back with a 1700 hour "mid-time" engine.
It had a Texas Skyways 520 conversion with that claimed 2500 TBO so I guess it technically it was mid-time,
although IMHO 1700 hours is stretching that description.
 
That increase is conditional. You have to accumulate 40 hours per month to qualify. Not many private guys do that, but private guys aren't governed by TBO limits anyway. Commercial guys will appreciate the bump, though.
 
Note 1 in that service bulletin says to add 200 hours to TBO if consistently flown 40 hours a month, since being placed in service.
Note 2 says add 200 hours if s/n is 1,006,000 or higher as noted. Doesn't mention frequency of flight.
Beginning of the SB also says replace or overhaul engine after 12 years in service.
Most of us are over that (sometimes way over) by the time we hit the specified hours-in-service.
Luckily, like you said, part 91 guys aren't bound by those limitations
 
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FWIW..They also only recommend the higher TBO if the engine is new or rebuilt by the factory.. not a field overhaul.
 
Wow you got a quote from them! I called twice and they never sent a quote. Thats higher than the prices I've seen from other shops. When do they estimate they can get you an engine? Every shop seems to be pretty busy now.

I ended up going with a engine from Knopp because he had one almost ready to go.

I also talked to Lawson Aviation. Would have gone with them but my engine crapped out and I didn't want the down time for OH into PPonk. Good prices and they build a lot of Pponks. Good guys! They're helping me with field approval even though I didn't have them OH my engine.

I would say that is very typical. After hearing nothing but good things about Lycon for years, and working for a shop that dealt with them for years, when it came time for me to have an engine overhauled about a year ago, I took it there against advice from a friend that had just had a nightmarish experience with them and had warned me against using them. I can honestly say, it was the worst business dealing I've ever had in my entire life. Since that time I have talked to at least 6 people that have had the same problem, won't return phone calls, no answers when you do get through, and months and months if literally not a year or more to complete work.
So I'm not surprised they didn't return your phone call. I had documented 27 times they said they would call me back the next day and I waited 2-3 days before calling them back and still couldn't get answers. Extremely frustrating. Was told they would have the engine torn down and inspected and would contact me in 2-3 weeks, I waited 6 weeks to give time, and so not bug them before I tried to contact them, still no answers and it went down hill from there. Another gentleman I talked to was told the same thing, he waited 4 months before contacting them, and they still had not answers for him, same problem as me, they would call him back the next day, which they never did. When I talked to him it had been 6 months, and he wasn't sure what he was going to do.
 
I would say that is very typical. After hearing nothing but good things about Lycon for years, and working for a shop that dealt with them for years, when it came time for me to have an engine overhauled about a year ago, I took it there against advice from a friend that had just had a nightmarish experience with them and had warned me against using them. I can honestly say, it was the worst business dealing I've ever had in my entire life. Since that time I have talked to at least 6 people that have had the same problem, won't return phone calls, no answers when you do get through, and months and months if literally not a year or more to complete work.
So I'm not surprised they didn't return your phone call. I had documented 27 times they said they would call me back the next day and I waited 2-3 days before calling them back and still couldn't get answers. Extremely frustrating. Was told they would have the engine torn down and inspected and would contact me in 2-3 weeks, I waited 6 weeks to give time, and so not bug them before I tried to contact them, still no answers and it went down hill from there. Another gentleman I talked to was told the same thing, he waited 4 months before contacting them, and they still had not answers for him, same problem as me, they would call him back the next day, which they never did. When I talked to him it had been 6 months, and he wasn't sure what he was going to do.

When was this? Had LyCon do a prop strike inspection which we turned into an overhaul and some enhancements and was delivered on time. I do have a good repor with them.
 
Mostly in the last year or so. My personal experience was last fall and winter. A very well known shop in the area that has been in business for 40 plus years, and has dealt with Lycon for years with very good results has had the same experience. In fact the owner told me he was switching to another shop to send his engine work to. Not because of qulaity so much but because of lack of communication and extreme times.
 
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Mostly in the last year or so. My personal experience was last fall and winter. A very well known shop in the area that has been in business for 40 plus years, and has dealt with Lycon for years with very good results has had the same experience. In fact the owner told me he was switching to another shop to send his engine work to. Not because of qulaity so much but because of lack of communication and extreme times.

sounds like they are just good busy....
 
That they are. Ken works 7 days a week.
I think that is part of the problem, but with over 27 documented times I was told they would call me back either that day or the next day with information and no phone calls, and then waiting at least 2 days to call, and still not having answer and this going on for months, and then work being performed that was not authorized. This goes well beyond just "being busy" and like I said, I've talked to at least 6 different individuals that have had similar problems recently, plus one very well know shop in my area. I was warned, but brushed it off, because of previous reputation and experiences I was aware of. Never again. I hope you have better experience then I and others that I've talked to recently have had.
 
I think that is part of the problem, but with over 27 documented times I was told they would call me back either that day or the next day with information and no phone calls, and then waiting at least 2 days to call, and still not having answer and this going on for months, and then work being performed that was not authorized. This goes well beyond just "being busy" and like I said, I've talked to at least 6 different individuals that have had similar problems recently, plus one very well know shop in my area. I was warned, but brushed it off, because of previous reputation and experiences I was aware of. Never again. I hope you have better experience then I and others that I've talked to recently have had.

I’ve been known to block calls from my customers, so I can get their work done. And if that don’t work throw their project out and let them go annoy someone else


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Maybe it's because they became a "name brand" shop.
That tends to make some folks prima donnas.
 
In 2012 we put a factory new IO-550 in a A36 banana that I fly. 447 hrs later not a single cylinder would hold 50psi and 2 we’re close to 0 and 2 we’re low 30s. We pulled them all and exhaust and intake valves had .010 stem wear and at least that much guide wear. 3 different shops told me I was lucky getting that much time as they had lots of them in for repairs with less than 300 hrs TTSN.
Continental wouldn’t cop to any issues and the warranty was out by calendar so we sent them to Greeley Co. and Joe put superior parts in the heads and it has been great ever since.
Dave
 
Just an update: took about six months from deposit to engine arrival w/Ly-Con
 
LyCon update

PPonk by LyCon is running great thus far (170 hours). Dyno’d over 300 and very smooth.
It’s been five months waiting on them to inspect my core and release the $2,000 advance build charge if all is well. Great engine; subpar customer service. Perils of high demand?
 
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Just an update on this PPonk build- we had to pull all six cylinders in July 2022 and rebore/replace the valve guides to straighten them, as they were deemed to be off-axis and causing hyper-accelerated wear. Rocker arms and valves had to be replaced as well due to wear. Manifested in leaking valves of two cyl at 200 hrs, then same two LyCon-“repaired” cylinders plus others started leaking 200 hrs later.

It was a real fight to get any relief from LyCon and formal threat of legal action was what finally tipped the scale. We ended up having the work done by an independent specialist, who had to do some fancy machining to get the cylinders back into spec.

My recommendation for ANY engine build would be to get in writing that guides, etc are all installed within manufacturer spec’d tolerances. It is likely that many builders rely on manufacturers or parts overhaulers/suppliers to do their confirmation checks for them and neglect to do things like measure insert angles, etc. Complacency can rear its head in a busy environment.


PPonk by LyCon is running great thus far (170 hours). Dyno’d over 300 and very smooth.
It’s been five months waiting on them to inspect my core and release the $2,000 advance build charge if all is well. Great engine; subpar customer service. Perils of high demand?
 
Prices have continued to go way, way up. It's now time for my Northpoint 470-50 with high compression pistons to go on my '55 180. I elected to start with a Continental factory reman tsio-520. MT prop is delivered and sitting on the shop floor. Sorting out engine mount, exhaust, cowling, airbox, and cabin vent inlet issues. Big bucks, praying for no whammies. I don't want to jynx myself too much. This has been a hell of a year for me and my plane. When it's in and done, I'll maybe tell the story (stories). Maybe... if I'm not too busy out flying.
 
Johnny, the worn valve guides are likely the symptom, not the problem. Big bore Continentals are famous for poor rocker arm geometry and that leads to early valve guide wear. If the plane is in AK? Take it to AK Aircraft Engines at Merrill Field. They know how to fix the problem. Send me an email if you’d like to discuss.

SB
 
Speaking of geometry, I have always wondered why there was not an STC for the Lyc 540 in the 180/185's. It's a great engine. I assume it just would not fit or require too much change to the engine mount / cowling, but really don't know!

sj
 
Thanks, Stewart.
Yes, you’re right - geometry was the factor. Once we corrected the valve guide angle by reboring and resleeving guides on proper X/Y axes, all the rest lined up and the faces are now hitting properly. Essentially the guides were off center.

Johnny, the worn valve guides are likely the symptom, not the problem. Big bore Continentals are famous for poor rocker arm geometry and that leads to early valve guide wear. If the plane is in AK? Take it to AK Aircraft Engines at Merrill Field. They know how to fix the problem. Send me an email if you’d like to discuss.

SB
 
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