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Thread: Javeron Parts Availability

  1. #1
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Javeron Parts Availability

    Wondering how long people are waiting to get their parts from javeron? For those that ordered a whole kit are you having any problems getting all the parts timely?

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    It took close to a year and a half to get all my parts from when I ordered. I got tired of waiting so I ordered from other vendors and now have extra parts. I know of five other Javron kit builders that have had or are having delays with some of their parts. The kit is made of high quality parts and Jay always took my calls. I just finished my Javron Cub and I am very happy with it but the delays cost me a year of flying.

  3. #3
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Seems more than a few people are having troubles getting all their parts, or even getting some in a timely fashion. I know of another that was sent the wrong parts and Jay is saying it’s not his problem. Quality parts. Poor service seems to be the quiet problem. Too bad.

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    Larry G's Avatar
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    I don't believe this one bit, Jay would not say that. " I know of another that was sent the wrong parts and Jay is saying itís not his problem" Fake News Todd Long
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  5. #5

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    I have been to Javron quite a few times to pick up parts for my project and find Jay quite accomodating along with knowledgable in all arenas of supercubs. I think the only problem is growing pains. His staff puts out quality parts and I have gotten mine with little wait time. Only wish I lived closer. And had more cash!! Give him another chance, he'll make good for ya.
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Wow! Now we have teenagers building airplanes! When did “I want it right now!” displace quality workmanship from a very small company? Javron is not Boeing, in case you didn’t notice. And, from everything I’ve heard, it’s a very good, well run small company. We should be thankful we have entrepreneurs like Jay to provide these kinds of toys.

    MTV

  7. #7
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Teenagers? Really? Wish I had enough to buy a plane when I was a teenager. Waiting a year and a half after spending 60-70k for the parts is slightly unreasonable. If he had sold the kit saying you can expect delivery in 16-18 months because I have a backlog, that would be different.
    Sorry not fake news at all on the wrong part and response. $3400 part at that. His mistake. Hopefully he will decide to make good on it. Like I said before, the parts are high quality. That isnít the issue. But not just one person has had problems getting parts. Hopefully the new shop space will help speed production. Case where the quality of the kit led to better sales success than delivery availability. But canít attribute that for this other issue. And Iíll give any chance he will take to make it right. To be clear, itís not my part. But a friend. Here in MN. Next step is to fly up for a face to face.


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  8. #8
    Randy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Wow! Now we have teenagers building airplanes! When did “I want it right now!” displace quality workmanship from a very small company? Javron is not Boeing, in case you didn’t notice. And, from everything I’ve heard, it’s a very good, well run small company. We should be thankful we have entrepreneurs like Jay to provide these kinds of toys.

    MTV
    I've ordered several small batches of parts from Jay, it was nice talking to him and he was very accommodating.
    No problems with timeliness.
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  9. #9
    stewartb's Avatar
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    C'mon, no vendor is perfect every time. Honest pireps should be encouraged. It may help the next guy to shape his expectations.

    It's no wonder why so few builders talk about their projects and experiences here these days.
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  10. #10
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Ok, hereís the specific. Jay sent a set of acme shocks with the plane kit. Problem is they were the lightweight ones for a J3. 1320#. Not going to work. Told Jay and he said thatís not my fault, not my problem. Call Acme and deal with them. So called them. Jay ordered the parts from them and sells them with his kits. So it is his problem. Acme worked with us as best as they could. But still cost a bunch of money. Jay did not have a set of Acme shocks to send us. He did say he could sell a set of TK shocks. Ask Acme why Jay isnít sending Acme shocks with kits right now. There is a reason, and itís not because of quality.
    Jay can be nice to talk to, send small parts orders........... Fine. Have a problem thatís bigger see how things go. We all want him to succeed. Thatís not what this was about. I know this isnít the only problem thatís happened. The second post shed some light on it. Call Univair and order a cowl, topdeck, whatever. Now they send you a J3 cowl, 4 month late. Then when you call they say wasnít their fault. Uh, doesnít happen. So why say just give home more chances. Customer support is usually judged by the first contact. Not having to prod many times.




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  11. #11

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    Just wondering, if this has anything to do with it?? Like i said, just wondering. Light weight ones or old style? they make more than 1 style??? I still like my correct to my airplane bungees. Just curious to why you didnt go with bungees? Couple of questions if you want to answer fine if not thats ok also. did you order these specificly for your kit? and does he sell them with his planes or just do it to help someone get what they want? And if it was me, and i know its not i would say, i can get them for you and even save you a couple of bucks but your on your own.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 02-27-2018 at 02:03 PM.

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd long View Post
    Ok, here’s the specific. Jay sent a set of acme shocks with the plane kit. Problem is they were the lightweight ones for a J3. 1320#. Not going to work. Told Jay and he said that’s not my fault, not my problem. Call Acme and deal with them. So called them. Jay ordered the parts from them and sells them with his kits. So it is his problem. Acme worked with us as best as they could. But still cost a bunch of money. Jay did not have a set of Acme shocks to send us. He did say he could sell a set of TK shocks. Ask Acme why Jay isn’t sending Acme shocks with kits right now. There is a reason, and it’s not because of quality.
    Jay can be nice to talk to, send small parts orders........... Fine. Have a problem that’s bigger see how things go. We all want him to succeed. That’s not what this was about. I know this isn’t the only problem that’s happened. The second post shed some light on it. Call Univair and order a cowl, topdeck, whatever. Now they send you a J3 cowl, 4 month late. Then when you call they say wasn’t their fault. Uh, doesn’t happen. So why say just give home more chances. Customer support is usually judged by the first contact. Not having to prod many times.




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    Todd,

    That indeed sounds like an issue that needs to get dealt with. Mostly, I was referring to the time issue on the kit. You are absolutely right, call Univair, and they'll send you parts pretty quick. Try that with any airplane manufacturer, though, and you're apt to be waiting a while.....I've had that experience with at least three manufacturers of light aircraft.... Still no excuse, in my mind, particularly for certificated airplanes....one sort of expects to be able to keep their airplane flying.

    But, frankly, the Super Cub crowd has gotten kind of spoiled by outfits like Univair, Stoddards, Atlee Dodge, etc. But other airplanes just don't necessarily have that level of support.

    But Wrong or deficient parts? Should get fixed, promptly, even if it hurts the company to do so.

    MTV

  13. #13
    Todd long's Avatar
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    No that’s not the problem with getting Acme shocks. They were ordered with the kit, from Jay. It was an option Jay offered. The newest ones are different build and material.
    It’s a vendor relation problem. And Acme isn’t the problem.
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  14. #14

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    But if im going to sell there second generation i would want them to replace all the 1st generations, for free, thats where i would start from.Which im sure would be a friction causer. And i would still make sure you knew your on your own, good or bad. Still wondering, something against bungees?
    Last edited by tempdoug; 02-27-2018 at 04:03 PM.
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  15. #15
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Bungees are OK. Hydrasorbs make them better. But my first snowmobile had just leaf springs and almost no suspension travel. Now wishbone with nitrogen shocks. The old technology works, but I wouldn’t buy a sled like that now except as a collector. Just flew the Javeron with the new Acme shocks today. It got a workout. Teaching the owner, a new pilot, and first tailwheel flight today. Took some beatings. No wingdrop or sway. Would have outdone Captain Kangroo on a few.
    The new Acme ones are made of much stronger materials. I’ve flown plenty on bungees. Some on die spring (sucks). And now the Acme. Have not tried the TK, but I like the fact Acme will still work if they get a seal leak.

  16. #16
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    I have stayed out of this. But tonight I called Jay and asked about this issue. I can assure you that there is much more to this than is posted here. Jay's integrity is completely intact. He has made every effort, and is STILL making an effort, to make this right.

    Jay is NOT a retail distributor for Acme shocks, bush wheels, or anything else. He builds kits. If a customer wants something extra like Acme shocks he will try to get them and include them in a kit at a reduced cost, thus basically doing a favor for his customers. Then someone comes along and knifes him in the back for trying to help......there is more to the story folks...... and you are only getting one side.

    I also spoke to a couple of other folks verify this. Jay goes out of his way to take care of his customers.


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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    What Bill said goes for me, emphatically. Knowing some of the details of your experience I would say that you had better do a better job of vetting your facts before lobbing grenades and disparaging comments about Javron.

    Suffice it to say that you may want to verify the facts with your "builder"...and don't just take his word for it. It may be entirely possible (likely) that you were fed a line of bs from the builder.

    Randy
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  18. #18

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    Also have to add my two cents to this thread about Jay and his business. I’ve been building my Javron as a piecemeal kit which started in 2014 with a partially welded fuselage. Jay has been nothing but accomodating as I have been ordering parts over the last several years. I doubt most kit businesses would offer such flexibility as Jay has done. He even hosted me in his shop so I could work on my set of wings to get some experience. His word is good and he’s an honest man.
    His business is growing so it is reasonable to expect some delays. When I had to wait a few months for some parts, I just called to ask how things were going. He’s always come through.
    In the end, you get top quality parts from Jay and always helpful advice. Still the best bang for the buck if you want a Super Cub.
    Be glad to share further experiences in my Javron build
    Wendel
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  19. #19
    Todd long's Avatar
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    So there are probably really three sides to this story. Jay, Acme, and the Builder Paul. Paul paid Jay for the shocks, not Acme. So it seems Jay sold them, and that is Acmes contention. The ones received were for a much lighter aircraft. They look the same. Not easy to discern the difference unless they are side by side. Paul notifies Jay once the problem is realized. Jay says contact Acme, as he does not have any to send to him. Paul calls Acme. They say not much they can do as Jay was the purchaser. He has bought the heavier and lighter ones and must have sent the wrong ones. They say Jay should call them to workout the problem. From what I have heard that hasnít happened. Acme offers to help out Paul with a discounted new correct pair. So he buys them direct so he can fly on wheels.

    This is seems like a problem between Jay and Acme, with Paul in the middle. Paul loses
    So notice the second post in this thread. This isnít the only kit that has had problems. And based on some of the replies on this forum I can see why most would stay quiet and not speak up.

    Unless someone wants to post specific information that isnít simply ďI know Jay and thatís not the caseĒ, itís all conjecture. Someone who hasnít been there telling me Iíve been fed a line of BS doesnít help. Please explain how this is Paulís fault, and why it should be his problem.

    I will Iíll say Jay did reach out to Paul again last week, and Paul returned the call. Again it was deal with Acme.

    I see this as a B2B transaction problem with Paul the customer on the short end of the stick.
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  20. #20
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    So if Acme knows they sold the struts to Jay and he sold them to Paul by mistake why would Acme not take them back? Why did Jay have this light weight version and why would he not take them back? Why would you sell parts for nothing? Why doesn't Jay post here for himself? Sorry, I have dealt with customers my entire life from retail in high school, 7 years in a lumber yard and 21 years with my own shop. Sometimes I have taken it in the ass and moved on. Learned something each time.

    Customer service seems to be lacking in general aviation. I have arbitrated between several customers and manufacturers over the last few years and it never ceases to amaze me. Egos and $$$.
    Last edited by Steve Pierce; 03-05-2018 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Something to add
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd long View Post
    So there are probably really three sides to this story. Jay, Acme, and the Builder Paul. Paul paid Jay for the shocks, not Acme. So it seems Jay sold them, and that is Acmes contention. The ones received were for a much lighter aircraft. They look the same. Not easy to discern the difference unless they are side by side. Paul notifies Jay once the problem is realized. Jay says contact Acme, as he does not have any to send to him. Paul calls Acme. They say not much they can do as Jay was the purchaser. He has bought the heavier and lighter ones and must have sent the wrong ones. They say Jay should call them to workout the problem. From what I have heard that hasn’t happened. Acme offers to help out Paul with a discounted new correct pair. So he buys them direct so he can fly on wheels.

    This is seems like a problem between Jay and Acme, with Paul in the middle. Paul loses
    So notice the second post in this thread. This isn’t the only kit that has had problems. And based on some of the replies on this forum I can see why most would stay quiet and not speak up.

    Unless someone wants to post specific information that isn’t simply “I know Jay and that’s not the case”, it’s all conjecture. Someone who hasn’t been there telling me I’ve been fed a line of BS doesn’t help. Please explain how this is Paul’s fault, and why it should be his problem.

    I will I’ll say Jay did reach out to Paul again last week, and Paul returned the call. Again it was deal with Acme.

    I see this as a B2B transaction problem with Paul the customer on the short end of the stick.

    If something isnt right ACME should be eating them. period. If new never used. There wont be any of those in my future. Seems like Gen 1s=junk Gens2= who knows, why take a chance?? And it sounds like you got the Gen1s and Acme dosent want to take any back foir Gen2s which you want now after the fact, right. But, i do have to say, all in all, thanks for the heads up on those shocks.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 03-05-2018 at 10:30 AM.

  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I got a call on this and seems there is a 3rd party involved who placed the order of this part from Acme through Jay (Jay doesn't deal with Acme normally) and then it sat on the guys shelf for 2 years and now he wants Jay to rectify it. Number one thing I learned a long time ago, check your order when it comes in. The 3rd party doesn't have a good reputation around his own airport either.

    Todd, you are using the site, have you thought about becoming a member of SuperCub.org?
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  23. #23

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    2 years! the guy is going to have to put that set on his motorcycle.

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    Todd long's Avatar
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    So I don’t understand the 2 year thing. That would mean the parts are now over 3 years old. Also I was there when the kit showed up and those shocks were in the box from Jay. So someone please elaborate on this claim. By the way that was last Jan or feb I think. 1 year ago. Sorry, didn’t mark it on my calendar.
    So who were they exactly bought from?

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    + 1 positive vote for JAVRON. Jay is the type guy you want building Super Cub kits. With his history in the Super Cub world and CnC capability you will be hard pressed to find a better product. Sound airframe in every regard. And you want find a more honest person. To me that's everything in any biz world.
    Did I have some wait times with Jay? - Absolutely. However, none of it was from Jays shop. It was all the optional stuff that can be ordered on top of the basic kit. Grove wheels and brakes is one example.. But he made it right. I'm sure most Javron builders reading this post might say the same. But those things are out of his hands. Jay will tell you right up front -if you want to deal with these vendors, have at it.
    Oh by the way - Good luck beating his prices. Ain't going to happen.
    Those of us that have worked with Jay for any period of time will tell you up front - man "I" wish he would get some admin help. Even part time help would increase productively. Jay wants to be a part of every event, every decision and every phone call. Or at least it seems that way. It's "HIS" company and that's how he wants to do things. I will not knock an honest man in how he makes his choices about his livelihood.
    As for the details with the ACME issue. I have no comment.
    Good luck in your builds.
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  26. #26
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd long View Post
    So I don’t understand the 2 year thing. That would mean the parts are now over 3 years old. Also I was there when the kit showed up and those shocks were in the box from Jay. So someone please elaborate on this claim. By the way that was last Jan or feb I think. 1 year ago. Sorry, didn’t mark it on my calendar.
    So who were they exactly bought from?
    Interesting that you’re only now asking these questions.

    MTV

  27. #27
    Iflylower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    Tempdoug, what is the story on these? Is this a known issue? Do they have a week spot? I’ve been leaning towards getting a set. I’d like to know more.

    Sorry the thread drift, my experience with Jay has been first rate and likely the kit I would buy if I built another.

  28. #28
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Ok. So those of you that had said there is way more to this story and I don’t know what’s going on, BS! I dont know where you got your information. Of all of you I am the only person who was there first hand and saw them come out of the box. As for those that said Jay does not order from ACME and only did this as a favor to Dan and Paul, BS. I just talked to Jay and he confirmed that he did send these shocks to Paul. As for being 2 years before the kit? Nope with the kit, arrived last winter as I said. So I don’t know where you got your information but stop spreading lies.

    Here is is where this thing got all blown up, not withstanding the total fabrications about Dan. Jay told Paul to try and see what Acme would do. It’s how it was said. Jay meant I haven’t been able to get Eric on the phone, maybe you can. Paul hears that as you just need to deal with Eric, not my problem. Either way after talking to Jay a few mins ago the resolution is Paul sends shocks to Jay. Jay refunds money to Paul and fixes problem with Acme. Just As I said it should happen at the very beginning of this thread.

    Thru this I have always maintained Jay and Javeron produce excellent quality parts. I have also said the same about Acme shocks, as I plan to get a set myself after seeing how well they handle being dropped in hard by a new tailwheel pilot. All I asked was there any problems with getting parts. The first reply confirmed there were. Maybe expectations on delivery times were too high before he ramped up production. That’s in the past

    But out for all this other stuff about uninvolved parties getting trashed, Jay said he knows nothing about where those rumors started.

    So so final result, parts will be refunded, reputations hurt due to total rumors, Jay still makes good parts, “Dan does quality work”(Jays words) Paul has a very nice flying plane.
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  29. #29
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Reputation control again. See above posts

    this was an early pair. Now completely new materials and design. One pair totally failed. Net even close to how the new ones are. After seeing the abuse from teaching a new tailwheel pilot and how well they handle it, no darting, swing drop and absorb the bounce I would whole heartedly say buy them.
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  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd long View Post
    Reputation control again. See above posts
    So did you receive your desired pound of flesh for the transaction that by your own description you were not a party to?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  31. #31
    Todd long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    So did you receive your desired pound of flesh for the transaction that by your own description you were not a party to?
    I asked a simple question. My pound of flesh is from those that said fake news, bs , vet your sources better....... all from people that had no first hand knowledge.
    So I thought this thread had run its course. Or you just bored trying to stir the pot?


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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd long View Post
    I asked a simple question. My pound of flesh is from those that said fake news, bs , vet your sources better....... all from people that had no first hand knowledge.
    So I thought this thread had run its course. Or you just bored trying to stir the pot?


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    No, not board just wanted to make sure you were happy.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    No, not board just wanted to make sure you were happy.
    I was hoping he would piss up a rope and go play with Diggler
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  34. #34
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    Javeron Parts Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Iflylower View Post
    Tempdoug, what is the story on these? Is this a known issue? Do they have a week spot? Iíve been leaning towards getting a set. Iíd like to know more.

    Sorry the thread drift, my experience with Jay has been first rate and likely the kit I would buy if I built another.
    Check the acme thread. ďSuspension testĒ on here. Acme responded


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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    I was hoping he would piss up a rope and go play with Diggler
    I liked Diggler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iflylower View Post
    Tempdoug, what is the story on these? Is this a known issue? Do they have a week spot? I’ve been leaning towards getting a set. I’d like to know more.

    Sorry the thread drift, my experience with Jay has been first rate and likely the kit I would buy if I built another.
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?53672-Acme-Aero-Shocks&highlight=acme+shocks 70hrs and a $1600 loss, like bolting a wood prop on for the first time. Been there.

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    Ordered a park brake valve from Wicks one time, layed in its package for a year, idea never materialized, thought i wonder if they would take it back, Steves had just came along, called and they laughed at me, which i 100percent expected but i thought all im out is a 5 minute call. That was my learning lesson. Here its still laying on the shelf 10-12 years later in new shape, some day if nothing else it might become a ebay item. A lot of these things see what there policys are before you order. Heres summit racings policy, about the longest out there."If you're not satisfied with our products or our service, we'll refund your money. Just return any new or unused part within 90 days and we'll refund the purchase price." And i was just thinking, when i built my plane, before the Univair, javron, airframes time i went thru 3 fuselages till i found one that could be used and ate about $5000 back then, then i ran across a guy named Jim Soares at Belgrade, Montana and he made that $5000 worth every penny.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 03-05-2018 at 09:27 PM.

  38. #38
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    I have two comments: If you had executive geniuses running this kit company, they would reduce costs by all means or raise prices and the quality would go down to satisfy the "stockholders." Then a buyout and etc. etc. till it was milked dry. Live with the executive limitations and enjoy the quality and dedication put into the kits. Mistakes happen and people have limitations. It wasn't intentional. Otherwise expect higher prices or reductions in service to pay for the office upgrade. A lot of mechanical and engineering folks aren't wearing 3 piece suits, but they make great products to our collective benefit. The response could have been over the phone when the guy had a welding torch in one hand or was upside down in a fuselage. It might have gone downhill from there, or there may have been some harsh language.

    Number two: Let it go. I agree entirely with your dissatisfaction, but this is turning into Fox vs. CNN, Pelosi vs. Trump. People's ( especially men's) lives are being destroyed by accusation. Guilty if, not as, charged. Let's try to move on. I'm going flying ASAP.
    Thanks bcone1381, cubdriver2, super stol thanked for this post

  39. #39

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    So, the $100 dollar question, if i buy a set of shocks from you and they sit on the shelf, never used, and want to return them, for a refund, how long till you wont talk to me.

  40. #40
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Javeron Parts Availability

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    Last edited by Farmboy; 03-06-2018 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Previous poster completely changed content.

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