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Thread: Trans-Tasman Australia NZ ferry of stock PA18-150 with 160HP?

  1. #1

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    Trans-Tasman Australia NZ ferry of stock PA18-150 with 160HP?

    Let's just say you wanted to ferry, as below, via Lord Howe and Norfolk Islands. What kind of ferry tank / fuel system would work?

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    akskibum's Avatar
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    superbad's Avatar
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    Not selling the cub are you? I’d be more worried about the headwinds on the way back.

    Rowly
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by superbad View Post
    Not selling the cub are you? I’d be more worried about the headwinds on the way back.

    Rowly
    Not selling, no way. But maybe base in NZ for a bit. Standard tanks + belly tank or smaller Turtlepac not really enough. Ideally, 60 gall Turtlepac would do it, but would that work re wt and CG?

  5. #5
    nanook's Avatar
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    How is your cub configured now? Do you have a cruise prop you can use?

    What belly tank are you looking at? What flight duration/speed are you seeing now
    with standard tanks?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    How is your cub configured now? Do you have a cruise prop you can use?

    What belly tank are you looking at? What flight duration/speed are you seeing now
    with standard tanks?
    74-54 Sensenich

    Was looking at the Airglas 32 gallon belly tank.

    I want to be conservative and reckon on 9gph and 70kts g/s.

    With longest leg of 484NM, 68 gallons on board is too tight.

  7. #7
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Get a 70 galloon Sorenson belly tank as used on sprayers. Bound to be some used ones sitting around OZ and NZ as they used plenty of Cubs for spraying in the past. Obviously you'd have to look at the condition and get some sort of approval for the install as it's not a Restricted Category Ag Plane.

  8. #8
    texmex's Avatar
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    In days of old I've flown Coffs - Lord Howe - Norfolk, many times in a variety of aircraft. It was long enough in a Turbo Commander let alone a Cub.

    Pick your day and maybe the 70kts needs to be closer to actual.

    I found about 2 and a half hours my limit in a Cub before the pain in the backside and legs was too much. 7 hours, to me, is incomprehesible.

    It would be fun though to have a Cub in NZ.

    Goodluck.

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    Have you run this Cub? I have a PA-18-160 with 26 tires. I can run 85KTs TAS with with a 74-56 on 7.7 gph. I just figure 8 gph with a climb. I know you want to be conservative, but a 12% over burn on a 17% underspeed is a lot. I think you want to nail it down a little closer to determine your needs accurately. Do you have an EGT gauge on this plane?

  10. #10
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    I have been dreaming about that trip for a while now. They say that you can't go to Lord Howe unless you have enough fuel for a return so that rules out waiting for a tail wind. The turbulence at the airport can be a serious problem and not forcastable. I don't think they close the airport but it is at pilots discretion. That's all ok but the leg coming back to Aus from Norfolk is the problem. I haven't looked into it yet but maybe being a cub, you would have other landing options on the island if there is rotor on the airport. Beach, paddock, road etc. Worth researching.

    But maybe just stay in NZ. Not a bad option.

    Col Goldy
    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    Have you run this Cub? I have a PA-18-160 with 26 tires. I can run 85KTs TAS with with a 74-56 on 7.7 gph. I just figure 8 gph with a climb. I know you want to be conservative, but a 12% over burn on a 17% underspeed is a lot. I think you want to nail it down a little closer to determine your needs accurately. Do you have an EGT gauge on this plane?
    Yes, owned it for 16 years. It always seem to burn more and go slower! Haven't flown it a ton since it had an engine rebuild to 160HP at the end of last year, though. It is better than I'm saying, but I don't think it does anything like 85kts TAS on 7.7GPH and I want to be really conservative. It would get a fuel flow computer before it did the trip, which is essential.

    If it did 80knots on 8 GPH you could do it with a standard belly tank, but you'd still be very at the mercy of oceanic winds. How Sir Francis Chichester did it in a Gypsy Moth on floats is beyond comprehension.

  12. #12
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    I have a 160hp in mine with a 7456 and 26 inch Goodyear’s. I get 80kts at 8gph. Maybe look at getting the prop repitched.
    Last edited by superbad; 04-07-2018 at 05:45 PM.
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    They say that you can't go to Lord Howe unless you have enough fuel for a return so that rules out waiting for a tail wind.
    Privately you can do what you want. Even commercially you didn't need a return although I don't know if that's changed since the guy did an ocean landing in his Commander Jet. For my two years, about 2k hours, operating to Lord Howe and Norfolk I never had return fuel ever. Mostly it was in Chieftains and a Turbo Commander but also C172's and a Warrior.

    For those not familiar with Lord Howe it's well worth a 'Google'.

    The turbulence at LHI is very easy to read and on the type of day one would be flying a Cub there a non issue. There were times flying to both islands when a chart instrument approach was going to be the most undesirable thing going. Put you through the roughest air and not get you visual. But I understand the Dash 8 and NZ 73 into Norfolk couldn't do a modified approach.

    I would confidently say there is no where else to land a Cub at LHI apart from the Airport.

    Are you sure you could sit in a Cub for seven hours?

  14. #14
    texmex's Avatar
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    How Sir Francis Chichester did it in a Gypsy Moth on floats is beyond comprehension.
    Couldn't agree more. For those unfamiliar with off course navigation it's also worth a google. (not that I've ever done it myself)
    I did a few trips out there without a GPS as they were just coming in at the time. GPS's really killed the art of navigation.

    I've seen a number of photo's at Lord Howe of Sir Francis Chichester's busted aeroplane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BritishCubBloke View Post
    Yes, owned it for 16 years. It always seem to burn more and go slower! Haven't flown it a ton since it had an engine rebuild to 160HP at the end of last year, though. It is better than I'm saying, but I don't think it does anything like 85kts TAS on 7.7GPH and I want to be really conservative. It would get a fuel flow computer before it did the trip, which is essential.

    If it did 80knots on 8 GPH you could do it with a standard belly tank, but you'd still be very at the mercy of oceanic winds. How Sir Francis Chichester did it in a Gypsy Moth on floats is beyond comprehension.
    Yes I would get an Insight G2 or an EPI and get some good numbers. Per Lycoming you can run peak EGT at 75% or less. 75% is 9.2 GPH. At 7.7 gph you are at 62% and I get 85 kts TAS there. It seems to be the "sweet" spot for a 160 You can get more range out of it going slower, but you drop down on the L/D curve so quickly getting there will drive you crazy.

    Do not forget the most important overwater range question. Oil consumption. Make sure you know that one cold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post

    It would be fun though to have a Cub in NZ.

    Goodluck.
    You do.... you just have to come fly it��
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    Yes I would get an Insight G2 or an EPI and get some good numbers. Per Lycoming you can run peak EGT at 75% or less. 75% is 9.2 GPH. At 7.7 gph you are at 62% and I get 85 kts TAS there. It seems to be the "sweet" spot for a 160 You can get more range out of it going slower, but you drop down on the L/D curve so quickly getting there will drive you crazy.

    Do not forget the most important overwater range question. Oil consumption. Make sure you know that one cold.
    I could consistently get 8hrs out of the 61 gal Dodge tanks, that puts you in the 7.5 gph range. 160hp, borer. You may need a slightly higher power setting starting out fat on fuel, pull it back as you get lighter. 68 gals should do the job. Do some dry runs to dial in the range...

  18. #18
    L18C-95's Avatar
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    In the 90HP Super Cub my fuel plan might be:

    490nm / 75 KTAS around 6 hours 35 minutes

    At 5 usgph, around 33 usg.

    Double any forecast headwind? And add a 10% contingency, you might plan around 40 usg on a light and variable day. This means around 7 hours 20 minutes with a planned 10 knot headwind, and the 10% contingency.

    On top you might want a solid two hour reserve. Bringing it 50 usg. There is a fuel tank mod for the wings which brings total fuel to 50 usg I believe, which would make CofG implications much simpler.

    With GPS the point of no return decision should be much more predictable, as you can observe actual wind conditions as you approach PNR and adjust accordingly.

    The longest leg I have flown in the 90HP SC is around 4 hours. The V brace in front helps in bringing circulation back to your behind.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  19. #19

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    Bumped into a guy a few years ago that was flying around in the South Island that had flown over from Australia in a c150 taildragger (150hp-I think) with a ferry tank plumbed into the cabin. Was here for a couple months
    then flew it back

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