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IA question about deleting annual information

per 91.417 you need to have the following for each AD -
The current status of applicable airworthiness directives (AD) and safety directives including, for each, the method of compliance, the AD or safety directive number and revision date. If the AD or safety directive involves recurring action, the time and date when the next action is required. And from 43.9 the mechanic is required to provide -
(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.
(2) The date of completion of the work performed.
(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.
(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.​

So, if there is no AD listing showing the 91.417 requirements, and no log entry showing the 43.9 requirements, it never happened! As an IA, when you sign an annual you are responsible for everything that happened to that airplane since day 1. If you can't find documentation to prove an AD was complied with, then comply with the AD again!.

​
 
I've done " tune ups" many times following an annual inspection. My AI was a good guy but wasn't much of a mag timer. The AI that tore into my logbook after the annual would have been on his ass, if he was lucky. He should have just suggested the mag work be checked and signed off before flying the plane.
 
Me too. A Super Cub has enough ADs against it that you need a list, referring you to a log entry. Normally, Cubs do not come that way, and it can take 5-6 hours just to figure it out. Then, of course, there is the weight and balance and equipment list - these always take a couple more hours.

Best to make a careful list, and put it in back of your current airframe log, in ink, with five or six spaces for new ADs. They seem to do a new wing strut AD every year, and that should be addressed and listed.

I also list pertinent 337s and mods in the back of each new log. I do not list the "on floats/on gear" 337s, or earlier covering (except it is important in some cases to retain, say, Poly Fiber even though the latest was Stewarts).

Once that is done, an annual shouldn't take more than a day, unless that exhaust AD needs to be done.
 
I think an AD print-out, from "AD Log" or similar software, is pretty nice.
Separated by one-time ADs and recurrent ADs.
One-timers marked as "N/A by serial number", "PCW by inspection see logbook entry dated 4/1/99", or whatever.
Then the recurrent ones can be addressed and signed off every year.
I think there's only three recurrents on my C180:
fuel bladders/caps, seat rails/claws/pins, and mag switch.
 
hotrod180 said:
I think an AD print-out, from "AD Log" or similar software, is pretty nice.
Click to expand...

Yep, I bet there are 30 plus ADs on airframe, engine, prop and accessories that should have some sort of compliance documented and if you have that system it is very easy to research. Problem is not many are that good and takes a lot of time to dig through the history to verify compliance. My favorite is the nose gear fork on a friend's 172 from 1971 that had had PCW written in the logs every year until I did the pre-purchase back in 2006. Never could find a log book entry documenting anything besides PCW on that AD. When I researched the AD and service information I found the effected fork still installed on the aircraft. Had a call yesterday on a J3 I use to maintain. New mechanic has an issue with the A65-A75 conversion an stamping of the data tag and overhaul entry with no parts numbers and the prop is marked 71" but the TCDS on the 75 hp engine limits the prop to 70". Guess I missed the prop, still researching the engine. If you think we are picky, grumpy bastards put yourself in our shoes and sit across the table from the lawyers a few times and you might have a different appreciation for what why we are how we are.
 
The funny thing about this, the records required by 91.417 are the OWNERS responsibility. If he is too cheap to pay the IA to do it, he is free to do it himself. True also of W&B and equipment list. They don’t want to do it themselves, but they don’t want to pay the IA the 10 to 15 hours to research it and document it. Then come next year, they forget to bring it and you got to do it all over again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
After reading this thread I've decided to make copies of my log books. I plan from this point forward to only leave my copied log books with my mechanic. Does anyone see any problems with this? If ink signatures are required (my mechanic has been making his inputs via sticker - I just slap it on a page in my log book - works nice) I'll be present for the signing of the log books. I'd be absolutely irate if one of my books got lost or something.
 
CubDriver218 said:
After reading this thread I've decided to make copies of my log books. I plan from this point forward to only leave my copied log books with my mechanic. Does anyone see any problems with this? If ink signatures are required (my mechanic has been making his inputs via sticker - I just slap it on a page in my log book - works nice) I'll be present for the signing of the log books. I'd be absolutely irate if one of my books got lost or something.
Click to expand...

Just me, but if the logs get mussed, it can cost some money. If I don' trust the guy with my logs that I expect to do quality work on my plane that will kill me, I just think I shall find another guy to work on the plane.
 
Steve Pierce said:
If you think we are picky, grumpy bastards put yourself in our shoes and sit across the table from the lawyers a few times and you might have a different appreciation for what why we are how we are.
Click to expand...

If there is a characteristic that I really value in a mechanic, it's being picky.....picky in the maintenance of my airplane, and picky in getting the paperwork right. And, if I had to put up with all this, I'd be grumpy too...

MTV
 
CubDriver218 said:
After reading this thread I've decided to make copies of my log books. I plan from this point forward to only leave my copied log books with my mechanic. Does anyone see any problems with this? If ink signatures are required (my mechanic has been making his inputs via sticker - I just slap it on a page in my log book - works nice) I'll be present for the signing of the log books. I'd be absolutely irate if one of my books got lost or something.
Click to expand...

I take a picture each year and have a folder just for these pics. If the logs get lost I've got a good backup that's simple to keep up-to-date.
 
Trust your mechanic, but keep your logs. What if he/she is in an automobile accident or worse, and somebody else sells his/her shop? Honest mechanics have a way of losing stuff. I am still looking for a pristine set of A-75 cylinders that I last saw in the 1990s.
 
aktango58 said:
.... If I don' trust the guy with my logs that I expect to do quality work on my plane that will kill me, I just think I shall find another guy to work on the plane.
Click to expand...

In a perfect world, I agree.
In our imperfect world, my main mechanic is great to work with,
but paperwork...not so good.
 
mike mcs repair said:
so what was the end to the original story?
Click to expand...

Here's where it stands. The Fed's were very in interested in the situation and very concerned that IA and museum owner denied altering the log book. The FAA has been in contact with the owner, the IA, and the museum owner. There have been numerous calls from the FAA to the owner regarding the status of the situation. First contact from the FAA after the owner report was filed was the next day. It seems that the FAA is very concerned with the situation and has been very active in it's investigation. Aircraft owner is off the hook, no issues with the FAA; they were very glad to hear from him. The FAA has had some difficulty in follow up communication with the IA; he was apparently out of town. The IA has been told to contact the owner and re-sign the log book and fix the annual entry; no call from IA to owner as of today. Here's the rub. Since the owner was trying to sell the aircraft and the IA denied making the changes to the log, the owner had to pay for a new annual to finish the sale of the aircraft. Owner will be requesting that IA reimburse him for cost of second annual since signing the log book is no longer an option. As far as the situation between the FAA and the museum owner; that hasn't been shared with the owner other than contact was made. Currently, owner is waiting on call from IA as per instructions from FAA to IA. More to come.
Marty
 
Good luck with that. The FAA can violate the IA if he either falsified or damaged records, but they cannot make him either sign or pay you.
 
Marty57 said:
Here's where it stands. The Fed's were very in interested in the situation and very concerned that IA and museum owner denied altering the log book. The FAA has been in contact with the owner, the IA, and the museum owner. There have been numerous calls from the FAA to the owner regarding the status of the situation. First contact from the FAA after the owner report was filed was the next day. It seems that the FAA is very concerned with the situation and has been very active in it's investigation. Aircraft owner is off the hook, no issues with the FAA; they were very glad to hear from him. The FAA has had some difficulty in follow up communication with the IA; he was apparently out of town. The IA has been told to contact the owner and re-sign the log book and fix the annual entry; no call from IA to owner as of today. Here's the rub. Since the owner was trying to sell the aircraft and the IA denied making the changes to the log, the owner had to pay for a new annual to finish the sale of the aircraft. Owner will be requesting that IA reimburse him for cost of second annual since signing the log book is no longer an option. As far as the situation between the FAA and the museum owner; that hasn't been shared with the owner other than contact was made. Currently, owner is waiting on call from IA as per instructions from FAA to IA. More to come.
Marty
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the IA didn't get paid for the annual and was trading out flying the airplane that he did not get to do and deferred maintenance that the owner agreed to do after the fly-in. In my opinion from what I have learned they all did things that they shouldn't have. With that information and my dealings with your friend and the museum owner they all deserve each other.
 
bob turner said:
Good luck with that. The FAA can violate the IA if he either falsified or damaged records, but they cannot make him either sign or pay you.
Click to expand...

They have to prove that the IA applied the white out. Looks like too many people had access to thelogbooks and I doubt anmyone is going to tell the truth. A civil matter that they got the Feds involved. Just my opinion.
 
Steve Pierce said:
My understanding is that the IA didn't get paid for the annual and was trading out flying the airplane that he did not get to do and deferred maintenance that the owner agreed to do after the fly-in. In my opinion from what I have learned they all did things that they shouldn't have. With that information and my dealings with your friend and the museum owner they all deserve each other.
Click to expand...

Steve,
Your opinion's may be a bit harsh here I think. I'm just trying to relate facts, not opinions about who deserves what. Issues are that a log book was altered with out owner's knowledge. After IA did not return calls to owner, FAA was contacted. IA did fly aircraft after annual; deferred maintenance was scheduled and parts acquired. FAA has told the IA he must re-sign the log book; to date IA has not contacted owner. Owner isn't trying to make a big deal about this; aircraft already sold. He is trying to comply with FAA regarding fixing the altered log book. New owner was very concerned about altered log book; that had to be addressed to insure airworthiness of aircraft, requiring new annual to be performed. I know you would not alter a log book without an owner's knowledge and than not be honest with the owner. Please stick to the facts of the issue of altering a log book rather than addressing who deserves what. Thank you.
Marty
 
Steve Pierce said:
They have to prove that the IA applied the white out. Looks like too many people had access to thelogbooks and I doubt anmyone is going to tell the truth. A civil matter that they got the Feds involved. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

"The dead guy did it!".
Always works for me.
 
Marty57 said:
Steve,
Your opinion's may be a bit harsh here I think. I'm just trying to relate facts, not opinions about who deserves what. Issues are that a log book was altered with out owner's knowledge. After IA did not return calls to owner, FAA was contacted. IA did fly aircraft after annual; deferred maintenance was scheduled and parts acquired. FAA has told the IA he must re-sign the log book; to date IA has not contacted owner. Owner isn't trying to make a big deal about this; aircraft already sold. He is trying to comply with FAA regarding fixing the altered log book. New owner was very concerned about altered log book; that had to be addressed to insure airworthiness of aircraft, requiring new annual to be performed. I know you would not alter a log book without an owner's knowledge and than not be honest with the owner. Please stick to the facts of the issue of altering a log book rather than addressing who deserves what. Thank you.
Marty
Click to expand...

If you read all my comments I posted what I thought about altering the logbook. I am sorry you found my post harsh but I am a bit bias.
 
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