Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 75 of 75

Thread: American Legend vs Cub Crafters

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Decatur, GA
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi SinCityJets - Last year I bought a used AL18 Super Legend Cub with the 115hp lycoming engine with only 200 hours on it. I'm a newish taildragger pilot and this is my first airplane purchase. Along with being a low time pilot - I am definitely NO expert on much of anything other than I knew what I wanted and I lucked out and I got it. I didn't want to spend the money on the Titan 180. I knew I'd be flying low and slow with occasionally BOTH doors and windows open (which I understand CC can't do). I also wanted the ability to add floats some day. Flying in a cub at Jack Brown's seaplane base ruined me as I couldn't stop smiling nor could I forget that experience and that's what made me want a cub. New was important as I don't have time for maintenance these days. I am happy with the range, fuel burn, interior, paint, finish, and the panel (garmin 796), and baggage compartment (i'm a girl with lots of stuff), and I love the bigger tires, etc. As I said before I am definitely no expert and I hear over and over from friends that have flown the CC planes that they are are super fun and sporty. They were just too much money $$$ for me. I also wanted a design closer to the original Piper Super Cub. My experience with Darin - the owner of American Legend has been great. I have no complaints - seems to be a man of integrity whose actions match his words. He is always responsive and I believe he genuinely cares about me, my plane and wants me to be safe and have a ton of fun. I also really enjoy the laid back atmosphere in Sulphur Springs. I have made a few changes to my plane and he was happy to accommodate. So far it's been a great experience!!
    Last edited by Sunshine; 02-20-2018 at 11:48 PM.
    Thanks SinCityJets thanked for this post
    Likes Richgj3, mike mcs repair, WWhunter liked this post

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    I personally think the choice to avoid the 180 hp Cub is a good idea. They go straight up, and fly like piglets. The Carbon Cub seems more balanced with the higher hp.

    If I was not deliriously happy with my stroker J-3, and had to have a Super Cub on a budget, I would search for the absolute lightest 160 hp Cub I could find. Stock, except disc brakes, shoulder harnesses, radio, and maybe the overhead x-member for crash-worthiness.
    Thanks S. Chapla thanked for this post
    Likes Gordon Misch liked this post

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    By the way, do you fly your AL to Zebulon/Concord ever?

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    402
    Post Thanks / Like
    I've bought new airplanes from both companies; A 2003 PA-18-180 from CC and a 2012 AL3 from Legend. Both are great airplanes, and from good manufacturers. I bought the Legend AL3 because it is very well built, solid, light, and has few proprietary parts.

    The second reason I chose Legend is Darin Hart, the owner. He is as straight-up and as genuine a good fellow as can be found. I specified the details of my airplane, they built it and transferred it to me on time and at budget. Nary a problem was had, not one...not even a glitch. And the airplane is completely trouble free. The fit, finish, and performance are flawless.

    Jasperfield
    Thanks SinCityJets thanked for this post

  5. #45
    Little_Cub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    268
    Post Thanks / Like
    Gotta agree with Jasperfield.. we have an AL3 and the Super Legend in Az.. the wife flies the AL3 most of the time and loves it. We just landed at sunset after chasing each other around (and around) in the desert.. we are already planning ‘the next one’ and might let either one go to a good home. The melt of new parts and proven design is hard to beat!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #46

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    I appreciate all the great replies to this thread. I think it will be a good thread to quote "use the search feature" to other newbies like me, in the future.

    I know this after reading through this entire thread again.....you won't go wrong with either. Honestly, for as much support for both brands, I got 4 PM's from people expressing their displeasure with one of the brands. The biggest complaints were numerous AD's at the customer's expense, propriety of parts used, difficulty getting parts, and after the sales service. I am not here to spread "hearsay" so I won't mention which company it was, but I was surprised.

    Again, I appreciate everyone's input. I believe it was all value added.

    Chad
    Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm an FNG!

  7. #47

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have owned a 115 hp Super Legend for 3 years and I have flow the 180 hp Super Legend. I have been very happy with 115 hp version. Performs like a 150 hp Super Cub wth lower fuel burn. 870 lb empty weight. I think the 180 hp engine adds about 40 lbs. Darin Hart has been great to work with.

    I will add more thoughts tomorrow.
    Likes Sunshine liked this post

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lasater View Post
    I have owned a 115 hp Super Legend for 3 years and I have flow the 180 hp Super Legend. I have been very happy with 115 hp version. Performs like a 150 hp Super Cub wth lower fuel burn. 870 lb empty weight. I think the 180 hp engine adds about 40 lbs. Darin Hart has been great to work with.

    I will add more thoughts tomorrow.
    did you not like the 180hp version??

    chad
    Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm an FNG!

  9. #49

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like
    We got the 115 hp before the 180 hp was available. I dropped our plane at the factory for an annual, and Darin handed me the keys to the 180 hp. I really liked the 180 hp, but for our use the 115 hp is almost perfect. It performs so much better than you would expect. It is a great and balanced airplane. One consideration that favors the 115 hp is that 30 gallons of fuel goes a long way. 30-35 gallon tanks are inadequate for 180 hp in my opinion.

  10. #50
    ATXCubDriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Since you are fairly close to the CC factory I would suggest a visit. Good chance you could fly three different models of the Carbon Cub and that would answer a lot of questions for you. Both CC and Legend welcome tours.
    Mike Sasser/Boomerang Air
    mike@boomerangair.net

    OK,AR,TX,LA
    Thanks SinCityJets thanked for this post

  11. #51

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ATXCubDriver View Post
    Since you are fairly close to the CC factory I would suggest a visit. Good chance you could fly three different models of the Carbon Cub and that would answer a lot of questions for you. Both CC and Legend welcome tours.
    Great idea. I think I will actually do that.
    Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm an FNG!

  12. #52

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am going to second Lasater's comments. I found the Carbon Cub well balanced and exhilarating in initial climb out. But it was designed for the 180.

    The Super Cub was designed for 90 hp. Piper upgraded it to 150, and STCs exist for 160, which adds zero weight. Hanging a 180 on the front does increase climb angle, at the expense of everything else. A good Cub has a hull speed of about 110 mph, and if you try to go much faster than that fuel burn goes up dramatically.

    The little O-200 Legend is a great airplane. Roomy, a little faster than a J-3 maybe, and economical. I suspect the 115 Lyc is the same. There was a Tango Cub here for a while with 115, and it did just fine on about 6 gph.

    But wealthy beyond belief? Carbon Cub. Nothing would make me want a 180 Super Cub - in fact, if I ever run out the Decathlon 180 I would consider a 160.

  13. #53

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Brenham, Texas
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    SinCity, you know Sun n Fun is just a couple of months away. I can promise you both companies will be represented there. Might be a good place to start.
    Likes SinCityJets, Richgj3 liked this post

  14. #54

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like
    The first Super Cub I flew/owned was a 1979 with 180 hp. I loved it, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. Then I owned a 150 hp PA-14. When we bought the 115 hp Super Legend, we had a 150 hp PA-18 that we concurrently for 3 months. The Super Legend out climbed the -18,got off and landed shorter, but was a little slower in cruise. The Super Legend is much lighter on the controls, but it is still pure cub.

    I liked the 180 hp Super Legend, but for our use the 115 hp is about perfect. My father, daughter and I tend to fly alone. Most of our flights are local flights around Fort Worth or around our ranch in South Texas. We are not hauling moose or gold bricks. We haven't competed in STOL competitions although I think the airplane would be more than capable (the pilot would be the limitation). Once you get over the fun factor of climbing straight up, the extra hp just means higher fuel burns and fewer hours between refueling. I think the CC used to come with 24 gal tanks for 180 hp. 2 hours plus small reserve-not enough for me. With 30 gallons, I get 5 hours to empty tanks, more if I am throttled back.

    I have not flown the Carbon Cub. Every report is that it is awesome. The criticisms are that the CC uses double sided tape and other weight saving construction techniques that do not hold up. I sat in a CC Sport Cub and grabbed the V-brace over the panel and was shocked that it "wiggled." I am sure it is plenty strong, but just not what I was used to.

    Fly both and talk to mechanics. CC has clearly was the sales and marketing race. They are great innovators. Don't rule out the 115 hp Super Legend just for the bragging rights of a big engine.

    Ed
    Thanks super stol thanked for this post
    Likes Sunshine liked this post

  15. #55
    spinner2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,720
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lasater View Post

    I sat in a CC Sport Cub and grabbed the V-brace over the panel and was shocked that it "wiggled." I am sure it is plenty strong, but just not what I was used to.
    I wondered what you mean by "wiggled"? There is some deflection when the tube it pulled on, just like there is in an -18. But wiggle? Not in mine. My recollection is that the -18 had more deflection. I've seen that tube on an -18 bent from pilots pulling their weight up and in with it.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  16. #56
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    10,345
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    I wondered what you mean by "wiggled"? There is some deflection when the tube it pulled on, just like there is in an -18. But wiggle? Not in mine. My recollection is that the -18 had more deflection. I've seen that tube on an -18 bent from pilots pulling their weight up and in with it.
    Holy crap, I didn’t know the Governator was a pilot.....

    MTV
    Likes spinner2 liked this post

  17. #57

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    439
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    I wondered what you mean by "wiggled"? There is some deflection when the tube it pulled on, just like there is in an -18. But wiggle? Not in mine. My recollection is that the -18 had more deflection. I've seen that tube on an -18 bent from pilots pulling their weight up and in with it.
    When I grabbed the CC v-brace, I could deflect it back and forth (maybe as much a half inch or more in the middle), I have not been able to do that in Piper products or my Legend. That is a observation from spending less than 2 minutes in a CC sport cub. The CC v-brace seemed like it was a skinnier diameter-but I not willing to be on it. I want to reiterate that I am sure that the airplane was well engineered and plenty strong. I like my Legend, so I am biased and I want to acknowledge that.

  18. #58

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lasater View Post
    The first Super Cub I flew/owned was a 1979 with 180 hp. I loved it, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. Then I owned a 150 hp PA-14. When we bought the 115 hp Super Legend, we had a 150 hp PA-18 that we concurrently for 3 months. The Super Legend out climbed the -18,got off and landed shorter, but was a little slower in cruise. The Super Legend is much lighter on the controls, but it is still pure cub.

    I liked the 180 hp Super Legend, but for our use the 115 hp is about perfect. My father, daughter and I tend to fly alone. Most of our flights are local flights around Fort Worth or around our ranch in South Texas. We are not hauling moose or gold bricks. We haven't competed in STOL competitions although I think the airplane would be more than capable (the pilot would be the limitation). Once you get over the fun factor of climbing straight up, the extra hp just means higher fuel burns and fewer hours between refueling. I think the CC used to come with 24 gal tanks for 180 hp. 2 hours plus small reserve-not enough for me. With 30 gallons, I get 5 hours to empty tanks, more if I am throttled back.

    I have not flown the Carbon Cub. Every report is that it is awesome. The criticisms are that the CC uses double sided tape and other weight saving construction techniques that do not hold up. I sat in a CC Sport Cub and grabbed the V-brace over the panel and was shocked that it "wiggled." I am sure it is plenty strong, but just not what I was used to.

    Fly both and talk to mechanics. CC has clearly was the sales and marketing race. They are great innovators. Don't rule out the 115 hp Super Legend just for the bragging rights of a big engine.

    Ed
    I’m not 100% sure, however, you may be over estimating the 180 Titan fuel burn. In fact there’s a very good chance that it’s as good as your 115. Especially since most of your flying is for pure enjoyment and looking around. The fuel burn rate in the 180 Titan (not your typical 0-360) at 1800 rpm is very similar to a Rotax 912 which which might be 4 US gal. or less even.
    Roddy

  19. #59
    spinner2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,720
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    I’m not 100% sure, however, you may be over estimating the 180 Titan fuel burn. In fact there’s a very good chance that it’s as good as your 115. Especially since most of your flying is for pure enjoyment and looking around. The fuel burn rate in the 180 Titan (not your typical 0-360) at 1800 rpm is very similar to a Rotax 912 which which might be 4 US gal. or less even.
    Roddy
    I agree. At 2350 I burn about 6 gph with my O-340 and Lightspeed ignition. Pull it back to the high teens and it sips 4 ish at 80 mph or so.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  20. #60
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think most engine shops will tell you not to run very long at those lower rpms (1800)?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Likes yellowbird69 liked this post

  21. #61
    Doug Budd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Crawford Nebraska
    Posts
    128
    Post Thanks / Like
    Find a rebuilt pa-18 105 special converted to a 0-320 . Light, good flying airplane. Or get someone to build what you want


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  22. #62

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    I think most engine shops will tell you not to run very long at those lower rpms (1800)?

    Glenn
    I wonder how an engine shop would explain that lol.
    Someone told me running a 912 at a lower rpm is not good for the engine either. Then they couldn’t explain why. Doing the typical non xcrountry flights with these planes, are not the throttle settings all over the place?
    Roddy

  23. #63
    Resisting-a-rest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Whiteville
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am running the 80/50 prop on my Super Legend HP and see a fuel burn of 7.2/hr at 2300 full rich...lean to about 75 rich of peak and get 6.4...I routinely fly along with a 160hp SC and turn around 2080rpm to maintain equal speed with him and see 5.2gal/hr on an EDM-740...normal cruise for me is around 2250 rpm..it just seems to be the sweet spot...TAS 98

  24. #64
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,734
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Resisting-a-rest View Post
    I am running the 80/50 prop on my Super Legend HP and see a fuel burn of 7.2/hr at 2300 full rich...lean to about 75 rich of peak and get 6.4...I routinely fly along with a 160hp SC and turn around 2080rpm to maintain equal speed with him and see 5.2gal/hr on an EDM-740...normal cruise for me is around 2250 rpm..it just seems to be the sweet spot...TAS 98

    He lives life in the slow lane
    Likes Resisting-a-rest liked this post

  25. #65

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Bettles AK & Arizona
    Posts
    289
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lasater View Post
    The first Super Cub I flew/owned was a 1979 with 180 hp. I loved it, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. Then I owned a 150 hp PA-14. When we bought the 115 hp Super Legend, we had a 150 hp PA-18 that we concurrently for 3 months. The Super Legend out climbed the -18,got off and landed shorter, but was a little slower in cruise. The Super Legend is much lighter on the controls, but it is still pure cub.

    I liked the 180 hp Super Legend, but for our use the 115 hp is about perfect. My father, daughter and I tend to fly alone. Most of our flights are local flights around Fort Worth or around our ranch in South Texas. We are not hauling moose or gold bricks. We haven't competed in STOL competitions although I think the airplane would be more than capable (the pilot would be the limitation). Once you get over the fun factor of climbing straight up, the extra hp just means higher fuel burns and fewer hours between refueling. I think the CC used to come with 24 gal tanks for 180 hp. 2 hours plus small reserve-not enough for me. With 30 gallons, I get 5 hours to empty tanks, more if I am throttled back.

    I have not flown the Carbon Cub. Every report is that it is awesome. The criticisms are that the CC uses double sided tape and other weight saving construction techniques that do not hold up. I sat in a CC Sport Cub and grabbed the V-brace over the panel and was shocked that it "wiggled." I am sure it is plenty strong, but just not what I was used to.

    Fly both and talk to mechanics. CC has clearly was the sales and marketing race. They are great innovators. Don't rule out the 115 hp Super Legend just for the bragging rights of a big engine.

    Ed

    I have worked on a lot of Carbon Cubs, pulled a lot of wings off, pulled engines etc because rich guys were buying them and their skills hadn't caught up with their pocket books. There is a lot VHB tape holding stuff together. Put two full size guys in one and you can watch the fabric on the fuse go slack just taxiing. Saw some prop strikes, ground loops and some stuff that makes you scratch your head. None of the ones I worked on had more than a couple hundred hours on them. We had one that had the 3rd new set of wings with only 40-50 hours total time! 180 hp in a plane that light takes some finess. I haven't worked on a Super legend nor flown one. I flew a PA-18 all summer that had a long hard life and it was still pretty darn good. Hard to argue with the success Piper has had with the original design.

  26. #66
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,734
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Den View Post
    I have worked on a lot of Carbon Cubs, pulled a lot of wings off, pulled engines etc because rich guys were buying them and their skills hadn't caught up with their pocket books. There is a lot VHB tape holding stuff together. Put two full size guys in one and you can watch the fabric on the fuse go slack just taxiing. Saw some prop strikes, ground loops and some stuff that makes you scratch your head. None of the ones I worked on had more than a couple hundred hours on them. We had one that had the 3rd new set of wings with only 40-50 hours total time! 180 hp in a plane that light takes some finess. I haven't worked on a Super legend nor flown one. I flew a PA-18 all summer that had a long hard life and it was still pretty darn good. Hard to argue with the success Piper has had with the original design.

    That tape is some strong stuff.

  27. #67
    S2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    4,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    Also consider Scout and Husky, both great airplanes.
    Damn !! Bout spit coffee all over my keyboard !! (:

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  28. #68
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,421
    Post Thanks / Like
    Something to note if the airplane is still in the SLSA category you will have to have Cub Crafters recover your airplane and rebuild the engine. No procedures for field overhaul or recovering, although most have been changed to the ELSA category. Legend allows any certified covering system to be used by anyone qualified to work on the airplane.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Likes Sunshine liked this post

  29. #69
    G44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Posts
    425
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    Damn !! Bout spit coffee all over my keyboard !! (:

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    Oh... What's so funny?

  30. #70

    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Decatur, GA
    Posts
    2
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Bob - forgive me but I had to look on a map to see where Zebulon/Concord was...haaa...and it looks like it's near Peachstate and I do fly down there in and around the area. My friend owns the grass strip Meadowlark. Are you on a grass strip?
    Last edited by Sunshine; 02-20-2018 at 11:30 PM.

  31. #71
    S2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    4,034
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    Oh... What's so funny?
    Nothing ! just an inside joke (inside my own mind )
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
    Likes OLDCROWE liked this post

  32. #72

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    No - California is fresh out of grass strips, mostly. But one of my best buddies built Meadowlark. I have landed at strips all over that area, including Doug Rounds, Peach, Whifferdill, and the one Joy Walker built.

  33. #73

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Exeter N.H.---Spruce Creek Fly-in(7FL6) Daytona Beach FLorida
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    No - California is fresh out of grass strips, mostly. But one of my best buddies built Meadowlark. I have landed at strips all over that area, including Doug Rounds, Peach, Whifferdill, and the one Joy Walker built.
    great memories of landing at those Delta pilots` airstrips---including Cedar Ridge---John Fleurent (Ret B-767--1993)


    "You cannot teach experience, you must acquire it."
    Captain Cub

  34. #74

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,266
    Post Thanks / Like
    In California last fall, driving, I noticed the Carmel Valley dirt strip is no more, I would have been amazed if it was still there.

  35. #75

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN KANE
    Posts
    65
    Post Thanks / Like
    Does the Super Legend have a wider cabin than Cub Crafters? I can't find the internal cabin dimensions for the Legend. I only see the"3 inches wider" claim.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

Similar Threads

  1. American Legend Experience
    By CubCruiser in forum Products, Purchases, Reviews & Prices
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-27-2016, 06:50 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-25-2006, 08:48 AM
  3. American Legend Aircraft new cub builder?
    By Dan2+2 in forum Experimental Cubs
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 03-13-2006, 02:26 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •