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Border Crossing

Sorry it is Manitoba. The guy that called me told me that it is required to call in. I didn't know that . Before I took off I looked at a airport facility directory and it never said anything about it. But now I know. He was cool about it, lightly chewed me out and that was it.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Perfect time to say this: "another country heard from".
I wouldnt take one other pilots comment / opinion as gospel.
 
Going through your pictures is well above and beyond the norm for a GA arrival, although it is legal.
I am acutely aware of this, but legal does not mean right. I am kicking myself that we didn't put away the cameras. We did turn off our phones. BTW, this authority extends to 100 mi of the border, and in some areas, is routinely abused to evade 4th amendment search restrictions.

We could see an agent intently clicking through something on her PC, but it wasn't until we returned to the airplanes and found one of the camera memory doors open that we realized what happened. The agents were so focused on distracting us for 20 minutes that they forgot to ask us the basics: did we have weapons or fruit.

Our family went through the Trusted Traveler program (NEXUS) specifically so we don't have to deal with issues like that. It involves fingerprinting and a background check to assure of a lower risk of threat, making crossings easier for members. Highly recommended if you frequently cross.

You are supposed to stay inside your plane and in the designated area - away from other aircraft and people.
Yes, and the penalties are draconian, which is why we were confused when the CPB agent we called expected us to go the road station without being met at the plane.

I'm armchair quarterbacking here, but I'll wager the reason they were surly is probably because you didn't follow directions and subsequently put yourself in a situation where the responding agents could easily have assumed you ditched items outside the airplane upon arrival. Consistent behavior like that from our GA population could and probably would create a scenario where CBP makes it even more difficult for GA pilots to file and cross the border back into the U.S. I'm assuming you had passports and all the other required documentation, and weren't a grumpy smart-a--, giving them another excuse to ruin your day.

Not trying to hammer you here, just using your example to show why things can get difficult at the border, and what we can do as a group to make it better.
Nope. Everyone in the group is an experienced international traveler, was polite, and we followed instructions to a T. eApis was filed, we called in advance, had records and passports. I have been through Porthill before. We all briefed the process before flight. At least two of the group has dealt with authoritarian border patrol agents far worse than CPB, although I wonder about CPB's trends.

Most CBP agents have to deal with extraordinary pressure to not "fail" and allow bad guys or bad items into the country. Their families' food & rent depends on it. Therefore they are already pre-loaded to identify us as potential threats. What we can do is be pleasant, know the rules before arrival, follow the rules and be understanding of what can be a pretty cruddy but important job.

That all said, there are some CBP agents that revel in controlling the situation, and some of them step outside normal boundaries. Know your rights and know what both they, and we, are supposed to do. See above website to understand those rights.
And I think this is closer to why the agents were surly. First, they didn't really know what to do with airplanes, despite being a port of entry for aircraft. They were uncomfortable and afraid of making a mistake.

Second, like many people working for large organizations, they've allowed compliance with bureaucratic rules to overrule their basic decency. I seriously doubt they signed up to the border patrol so they could troll through private vacation photos, seized from near professional equipment, on the waaaay outside chance they might find child porn.

Sorry for the long response, which is intended for all of us, but I often read or hear about this or that CBP agent who ruined someone's day. The issue can often be tracked back to someone not knowing the rules. Guess which party typically falls into that category. Hint: it isn't the CBP employee!

Frankly, I am getting tired of the nearly universal response that if you have trouble with government employees, then the problem must be with you.
 
I put together information on crossing the border at Crane Lake MN and Sand Point Lake in ON. I mention how to get your transponder waiver, VFR Round Robin, Customs Sticker and eAPIS. If anybody is interested, PM me with your email and I'll send it to you.
 
I put together information on crossing the border at Crane Lake MN and Sand Point Lake in ON. I mention how to get your transponder waiver, VFR Round Robin, Customs Sticker and eAPIS. If anybody is interested, PM me with your email and I'll send it to you.

Marty,

Thank you so much!
You put together an document with step by step instructions telling me basically everything I needed to know. I also appreciate everybody else who chimed in to help clarify the procedures for float flying across the boarder.
I think I have a decent idea for now and look forward to flying this summer up into Canada on floats.
 
We flew into Canada from Crane Lake (KCDD) to Sand Point Lake (CJD6) in Canada and beyond last week. Used the ROAM app from the CBP on the phone once we returned to the US at Crane Lake. Basically, you contact CBP after you land on the water and you have a one-way video conference with an officer/agent. we had nothing to declare so we were good to go.

You still have to file a flight plan and an eAPIS, but when using ROAM, you do not have a face to face with an officer/agent at the dock.

I believe ROAM is applicable at Shagawa Lake in Ely, MN as well. Suggest looking into it on the CBP.gov site if you plan to travel into Canada and return at those locations.

MartyC
 
On the subject of border crossing how does Canada treat technical stops for GA if your flying from lower 48 to Alaska and you need one stop for fuel do you have to clear customs and do you have to land at a Customs/airport of entry or can you stop at any airport. Also If your flying to interior airport of entry such as Edmonton, Yellow Knife ect can you fly Direct of do you need to stop at the nearest airport to the border.
 
On the subject of border crossing how does Canada treat technical stops for GA if your flying from lower 48 to Alaska and you need one stop for fuel do you have to clear customs and do you have to land at a Customs/airport of entry or can you stop at any airport. Also If your flying to interior airport of entry such as Edmonton, Yellow Knife ect can you fly Direct of do you need to stop at the nearest airport to the border.
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/services/aoe15-eng.html

Not sure about fuel stops specifically, but these folks could give you official guidance.
J
 
I’m thinking about buying and bringing some used airplane parts, landing gear and wheels, engine core, and some other stuff, from Canada to US. Going to be well over the personal exemption limit. Does anyone know anything about the import of airplane parts from Canada to US? Ie. duties and taxes? Labeling?
 
What are the requirements for simply overflying Canada? I would like to go Detroit area to Buffalo area over Ontario in my NORDO Champ, without a Canadian landing.

George
 
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That “no radio” adds a twist.

usually... a flight plan, talking with atc, mode c or tsa waiver, permanent registration not temporary or pink slip.

I know you can call navcanada.ca and ask about Canada stuff, but there is never anyone that knows the right answer on the other end of a US gov number that I have found.
 
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No import duty back into the USA on anything originally made in the USA was my experience. I assume your taking cash? There are declaration forms available on line to print and fill out prior to your arrival. A google search or phone call to Customs and Border Protection or whatever they call themselves these days will get any question you have answered. I made 2 trips with cash and had no hassle.
 
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What are the requirements for simply overflying Canada? I would like to go Detroit area to Buffalo area over Ontario in my NORDO Champ, without a Canadian landing.

George

I've done it Nordo without doing anything and it's done during Oshkosh with East coasters quite often without talking. Canada doesn't care. ICE says you need to file a FP?

Glenn
 
I came into Cutbank, MT once in my 170. Clearing Customs was taking forever, but the agent never even looked in the airplane. He was working on his computer. Wind was picking up and I wanted to be gone. After an hour (seriously) I gently asked if there was a problem. I wouldn’t say he bit my head off, but he rather pointedly told me to butt out.

Half an hour later, he finally turned to me and said, “Okay, you can leave. I’ll figure this out somehow.” Like a dummy, I politely asked if he could let me know what the problem was. He frowned and said, “The problem is, your airplane is not a Piper Tomahawk.” What???

I eventually found out that my airplanes records had, at some point, been sent from the FAA to the archives, so they no longer showed up in FAA database. This used to happen if there was no “activity” in FAA records for some period of time.

So, my aircrafts tail number had disappeared off the FAA database, and Piper registered a new Tomahawk with my tail number. The Customs guy was looking at his database and my airplane and it didn’t match. He eventually realized I was clueless, it was a government screwup, and let me go. He couldn’t “officially” clear me, because his computer wouldn’t accept the data.

Point is, this guy was detaining me with no apparent reason, and was getting progressively more pissed off. But, it wasn’t me he was pissed at, it was “the system”. I suspect if most of us had to work with that system every day, we’d be pretty grumpy too.

In the end, some poor bastard in Florida had to change the tail number on his fairly new Plane.

Ive had several other not great experiences with US Customs over the years. I think a big part of the problem is the complexity of the system. The Canadian system is MUCH simpler.

Finally, when you go through the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, which all Customs officers do, you come out of there convinced that everybody is a criminal (Okay, that’s a little bit of an exaggeration, but....). So, if you draw a really young agent, with bright shiny gear, be prepared to go through some hoops.

Sometimes, the folks with a few years experience are a bit easier to deal with. But always be professional. Even if they’re not. They have the power to ruin your day, right, wrong or indifferent.

MTV
 
What are the requirements for simply overflying Canada? I would like to go Detroit area to Buffalo area over Ontario in my NORDO Champ, without a Canadian landing.

George
My recent experiences overflying Canada between Buffalo and Michigan was no big deal but I don't think it can be done NORDO. My understanding is you need to squawk and talk for the border crossing (have a discrete transponder code and be in two-way radio communication with ATC). There is some debate about if you need to be on a flight plan (IFR or VFR) for the crossing.
I file most times I overfly. I will admit to not filing once 18 months ago with no ill consequences.
Call the FBO at Port Huron (KPHN) for some CBP intercept horror stories for overflying Canada while not being on a flight plan.
 
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About 5 years ago I sat in on a seaplane safety seminar on Lake Champlain that a new ICE agent was giving the talk. He was about 40 and had retired from the military and now worked for ICE. He told us that we had to do Customs if we over flew any part of Canada. I asked a bunch of questions and told him that I had talked to both Canadian and US Customs while at Oshkosh the week before and that was not what they had told me. He was adamant that he was right and we got into a little argument. I went up after the talk and shook his hand and thanked him for his service but told him that I thought that he was wrong. I called 2 different Customs offices on Monday after I got back and both told me that I didn't have to do Customs in that situation. Buyer beware.

Glenn
 
About 5 years ago I sat in on a seaplane safety seminar on Lake Champlain that a new ICE agent was giving the talk. He was about 40 and had retired from the military and now worked for ICE. He told us that we had to do Customs if we over flew any part of Canada. I asked a bunch of questions and told him that I had talked to both Canadian and US Customs while at Oshkosh the week before and that was not what they had told me. He was adamant that he was right and we got into a little argument. I went up after the talk and shook his hand and thanked him for his service but told him that I thought that he was wrong. I called 2 different Customs offices on Monday after I got back and both told me that I didn't have to do Customs in that situation. Buyer beware.

Glenn

Agreed, customs is not involved with an overflight.
 
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COURT DECLARES SUSPICIONLESS BORDER SEARCHES OF PERSONAL ELECTRONIC DEVICES UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Nevertheless, who knows what might happen at some of these “fiefdoms!”

AOPA article on it:
https://pilot-protection-services.a...mail&utm_campaign=content&utm_content=january


CPB personnel at 1S1 expect eApis. In our last trip, two planes filed eApis, neither arrived at Porthill. After calling Porthill, they insisted we refile, which caused about a 2 hour delay.

Other experiences:
  • You need to add a "K": the identifier is K1S1 in eApis.
  • Your experience will vary depending on who is manning the station. The first time we crossed, it was very formal, we had to stay by the planes at the tiedown until someone met us. Despite being formal, the agents were pleasant and efficient. The second time, we got tired of waiting and called from the tiedown - the person answering didn't know where the tiedown was, insisted we taxi and park right in from of the stairs (IMHO, some planes wouldn't make it up the grass incline). Agents were surly.
  • Turn off your phones and put your cameras away. While we stood around at the station, an agent went to the planes and removed the SD cards from two cameras that were laying on the seats. We waited 20 minutes while they trolled through our vacation pictures.
 
COURT DECLARES SUSPICIONLESS BORDER SEARCHES OF PERSONAL ELECTRONIC DEVICES UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Nevertheless, who knows what might happen at some of these “fiefdoms!”

AOPA article on it:
https://pilot-protection-services.a...mail&utm_campaign=content&utm_content=january

I have had no bad experiences with CBSA, either driving or flying. I've had about 80% okay encounters with CBP returning to the US, and those that weren't were my own fault almost every time.

My wife, however, thinks US Customs and Border Patrol is actually some sort of gang activity and scowls sternly whenever she encounters them.
 
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