• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Grove 10" wheels/8" brakes for 35 ABW and 31 Desser

That brake disc is not the first one I have seen that happen to but it was with 35" ABW instead of 31". It is not that common for sure but with double calipers that would be my fear if they were not beefed up in the bolt on area. I think the whole disc in the attach area really would need to be machined from thicker material but a doubler on the back for sure.
 
Interesting discussion, OP thanks for starting it. Always planned on doubling up the calipers on my 185, but sold it before I did.

I will be installing the Beringer 10" wheel and 10" brake system on the SQ2 as soon as it becomes available. Looks like they are mounting the caliper up top so that should eliminate any tire rub.

I'll also be installing their master cylinders and parking brake (which I don't currently have).

http://www.beringer-aero.com/en/fil...roue-frein-10-ultra-legere-pour-supercub-.pdf
 
It is not that common for sure but with double calipers that would be my fear if they were not beefed up in the bolt on area. I think the whole disc in the attach area really would need to be machined from thicker material but a doubler on the back for sure.
Click to expand...

I think there is a tension component on the disk mounting bolts, with a consequent peeling effect on the disk's mounting surface. In the picture that seems apparent. That would be due to the axial offset between disk and mounting surface.

Further, I think that if two calipers were mounted opposite each other, the tensile force imposed on the bolts by the two calipers would cancel because the two calipers would be applying forces in opposite directions. So double, diametrically opposite calipers might actually reduce that tearing tendency and allow the bolts to operate nearly entirely in shear, mitigating that weakness.
 
Wayne Mackey told me about a disc he peeled off like the photo. It was 35's on ABW's 10" wheeel for tue 35's.

He didnt have the bog calipers so he put on the thin SuperCub 1-1/4" style ones, with that result.

For what its worth, my 180 with 31's on Gar Aeros stops just fine on rough and smooth surfaces with the power available at gross weight. Cessna master cylinders power them right up.
 
I wonder how the rotor flange on my Cessna's 3-bolt wheels compare to my 10" Airframes wheels rotor flange? I happen to have both in the garage. I guess I'll find out.

For those unfamiliar with kidney washers on 3-bolt cleveland brake rotors, here's a pic.
 

Attachments

  • E8AD27C1-A4A2-4DDE-AD9A-002F52D3984C.jpg
    E8AD27C1-A4A2-4DDE-AD9A-002F52D3984C.jpg
    59.8 KB · Views: 228
Last edited:
Dave Calkins, you referred to light calipers. Did you mean rotors? As in lighter duty 3-bolt rotors? The only Cleveland Cub wheels I've had used 6 bolts. Are there 3 bolt Cub wheels, too?
 
stewartb said:
Dave Calkins, you referred to light calipers. Did you mean rotors? As in lighter duty 3-bolt rotors? The only Cleveland Cub wheels I've had used 6 bolts. Are there 3 bolt Cub wheels, too?
Click to expand...

Wayne said he put the light discs on since he had the light calipers. Its all he had at the time the 35's went on his plane, so he made it work. Big mistake. I did not see this, only heard about it.

A point I wanted to make, and should not be lost......

..............the brakes on the Cessnas work just fine with bigass tires and at gross weight. Not sure you need larger discs.

pretty sure you need adequate master cylinders! will probably put Cessna masters on my next Cub build
 
I'm not sure I do either, I'm not an engineer. but they are lighter and cheaper than the alternative for the 35 tires. And they are bigger which suggests more stopping ability.
 
did anyone get a close look at the beringer wheel/tire combo at the trade show? The disc actually floats on the rim held in place by 40 or 50 tiny bolts.

Still looking for interested folks for the Grove 10" rim by 8" brake. we need a couple more commits to order.

Again this is a simple R&R setup. remove your 6" wheels/brakes and install the 10" wheels/brakes. better brakes, lighter, simple
 
Interesting discussion, OP thanks for starting it. Always planned on doubling up the calipers on my 185, but sold it before I did.

I will be installing the Beringer 10" wheel and 10" brake system on the SQ2 as soon as it becomes available. Looks like they are mounting the caliper up top so that should eliminate any tire rub.

I'll also be installing their master cylinders and parking brake (which I don't currently have).

​
http://www.beringer-aero.com/en/file...-supercub-.pdf
Click to expand...

Hey Phil, any idea when these are going to be available?

Thanks, Wes.
 
A much simpler solution would be to machine a brake disc that mounts to ABW wheel and uses the outer bolt pattern, you need that larger bolt pattern to transfer the energy for the larger brake disc. Much cheaper option then spending 3K for a set of wheels that already are being made and on lots of airplanes. The torque plate could be included and still be a fraction of the cost. Use the calipers you have now like Mike says.

If there are enough people interested Airframes may even be willing to look at the modification.
 
I made the assumption that if using an 8" disc I would need an 8" caliper. Has anyone out there ever mounted a 6" caliper on an 8" disc? I guess it could work but it just doesn't sound right. It would wear a bit different but I suppose it would work. Anybody done It??

I think engineering and machining that 8" disc (and the torque plate) to use with the 6" caliper may be expensive too.

I"m building right now and have a set of 6" wheels and brakes. I'm getting the 35" tires and was exploring options for 10" wheels with bigger brakes without re-inventing the wheel...... If anyone could comment on the possibility of getting a disc engineered lets look into it.

$2200 for the ABW wheels
$3000 for the grove wheels with bigger brakes/calipers included

I haven't purchased the ABW wheels yet so the cost for me would be $800 minus what I could get if I sold my 6" wheels/brakes.
Grove is making similar wheels right now. these would be a bit narrower (and lighter) to accommodate the 35" ABW tires.
 
Last edited:
The Groves made for the 6" wheel is the exact same as the ABI or Cleveland's. They also work on the 10" wheel perfectly. I literally just went through this. The aluminum brakes however are lighter by a lb each. Magnesium corrodes much easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
7751602f22ba56dff6a6e14fb0bd117c.jpg


Those are the 1 3/4 double puck Groves that were on the 6" rim with 31's. There now on the 10" rim with 35s. There great!

AKT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AKtahoe, I don't think this is what the thread is about unless I am reading your post wrong.

cub-size12, I know that the 6" caliper will work on the larger 8" disc, I have seen it done. Price is going to be a factor for you because I would not be interested in making the parts for 800.00 but if enough people wanted this mod I think the price could get down in this range.
 
aktahoe
its good to know I have a fallback plan for my 6" grove brakes. Now I know the ABW disc on the 10" rim will fit the grove calipers. Did you have any modifications or was it a plug and play? thx

Mauleguy
exactly, trying to cobble things together can be a long road and bumps can get expensive. With the Grove setup it is "off the shelf" and makes replacing broke parts easier and quicker.

My intent here was to find out if there was any interest in an alternative with bigger brakes. We will see 8" or 10" brakes eventually. I just don't have a warm fuzzy with the beringer setup. They make a very nice looking setup, but what works good on the track may not be the answer for the sand, rocks, stumps and bumps. If I can get this through and word gets around I think guys will start to see the benefits. we are experimental which is very liberating.
 
cub-size12 said:
aktahoe
its good to know I have a fallback plan for my 6" grove brakes. Now I know the ABW disc on the 10" rim will fit the grove calipers. Did you have any modifications or was it a plug and play? thx

Mauleguy
exactly, trying to cobble things together can be a long road and bumps can get expensive. With the Grove setup it is "off the shelf" and makes replacing broke parts easier and quicker.

My intent here was to find out if there was any interest in an alternative with bigger brakes. We will see 8" or 10" brakes eventually. I just don't have a warm fuzzy with the beringer setup. They make a very nice looking setup, but what works good on the track may not be the answer for the sand, rocks, stumps and bumps. If I can get this through and word gets around I think guys will start to see the benefits. we are experimental which is very liberating.
Click to expand...

It was plug and play. Very simple. Here's a pic of the Groves that we're on the 6" rim now on the 10" with 35's. Also shown is the ABI set that I ordered thinking my Groves would not work.

3168c90049a30ee9dd5704ca6b5e58e3.jpg


Grove and ABI
35c206f0ed9d7860681c8ddf32ece014.jpg


Clevelands on the 180 with 31's - with Grove ABI. Picture makes the Grove look a bit bigger but there not.
73714ba4a4f04942c6d4524918813037.jpg


Anyhow sorry to drift here.

AKT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It’s plug and play because both wheels share the same torque plates. Enlarge the disc diameter and that’s no longer true.
 
The reason I mentioned if enough people were interested I am sure someone like myself could machine a kit that would be a plug and play with all the Alaskan Bushweel 10" wheel kits that are already out there. In my case with the experimental Maule A.K.A. Bushwacker I probably would not mind having a bigger brake disc.

On cubs/carbon cubs etc. I am not sure it would be a good thing for most people, you would probably see a lot more cubs upside down because of the extra braking power. I have not flown many cubs that I think boy I wish I had more braking power!
 
N9PW said:
I’ve been on waitlist with grove for these for a few months now. Any updates on timeline or is there still not enough demand?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If anyone interested is this set up please send me a PM so that I can coordinate with Grove for the purchase
 
cub-size12 said:
If anyone interested is this set up please send me a PM so that I can coordinate with Grove for the purchase
Click to expand...

Count me in. Flo knows I’m looking for a set. I have their “10x10” setup my 29” ribbed airstreaks, so looking for wheels, rotors, and 1-1/4” torque plates to step up to 35s.

Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
Beringer or Grove 10" Wheels w/ 31" Dessers (or 35" ABW) vs 6" wheels w/ 31 Airstreaks or ABW
Replies
17
Views
9K
JeffP
J
Back
Top