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Thread: Panel Discussion: Cessna 180 Upgrades on Poor Webjanitor Budget

  1. #121
    jrussl's Avatar
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    Before you dual G5ís, make sure to check into the GI 275ís. Super high contrast and high pixel density. They are more crisp and clear than any other display I have seen. They also have an option for the autopilot interface and a remote magnetometer. More $$$ but they totally look worth it to me.

    The screens on the G5ís look dated to me. Less contrast and pixelly. My opinion only.


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  2. #122

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    Too small. Good pixel density doesn’t do much for old eyes. It’s like buying a $20K home stereo when your tinnitus is so bad you can’t hear a police siren trying to pull you over. iPad Pro and an adhrs to feed it. Works great.

  3. #123

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    Hi SJ,

    Regarding the AV-30, I did a dual install in a warrior and he has had issues with the DG holding correct heading. What is the word for that, precession, procession? Have done vibration calibrations, software updates… not sure if he has gotten it right since the last software update. Rumor I heard was that uAvionix was coming out with a magometer.
    Last edited by a.crane; 06-02-2022 at 09:11 PM.
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  4. #124
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    GI-275ís or G3 with GFC500AP.
    G500 fits better but may be able to shoehorn the G3.


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  5. #125
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    Panel Discussion: Cessna 180 Upgrades on Poor Webjanitor Budget

    In the middle of a budget upgrade to a 180H for a customer.
    He kept his airspeed, T/B, Alt and VSi. Left side has a couple EI units. Dual GI-275s stacked in the center.

    Copilot panel retaining oem gauge cluster, tach/mp up top and carb temp under. Usb at bottom.

    Added GFC500 as well.
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    More today.
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    Last edited by Farmboy; 06-03-2022 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Added photos
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  6. #126
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.crane View Post
    Hi SJ,

    Regarding the AV-30, I did a dual install in a warrior and he has had issues with the DG holding correct heading. What is the word for that, precession, procession? Have done vibration calibrations, software updates… not sure if he has gotten it right since the last software update. Rumor I heard was that uAvionix was coming out with a magometer.
    Yes, the newer AV-30 has an internal magnetometer. They’ve now come out with an external magnetometer as well, not yet certified, but working on it.

    You can take input from virtually any GPS, and feed that into AV,30 as well.

    MTV
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  7. #127

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    Steve, I installed an autopilot on your recommendation after flying with you whenever that was (a year ago? two years ago?). The GFC500 was the only digital autopilot that was certified to fly approaches in the Skywagon. Not what you asked, but relevant.

    Regarding ADI/HSI, I needed something that would drive the GFC500, which eliminated the AV-30 (these names — sheesh.). I opted for dual G5s instead of GI-275s for a few reasons:

    1) The GFC500 was co-developed with the G5. The manual is even the same. It seemed like they should talk to each other well.

    2) G5s are cheaper.

    3) GI-275s do have a sharp display, but once you start crowding all of the data on there, it’s too cluttered to get information from quickly. People point out that you can declutter them, but by the time I got it where I wanted it, it was just a G5 display with somewhat smaller numbers and a round screen.

    4) If you want to use the SynVis you bought, you have to get another subscription from Garmin. That’s just one more thing to buy, one more card to lose, and one more thing to worry about.

    5) My panel already had several raised rectangles, including the JPI730 and everything in the stack. Aesthetically, two more raised rectangles fit better than flush, digital circles.

    6) In HSI mode, the G5 displays the complete circle of the DG. The 275 doesn’t show the bottom. It seems like a small thing, but I use it every time I fly: “Podunk traffic, Skywagon one Charlie tango, 5 uh [*looks at bottom of HSI*] southeast. . . .”

    No matter what, getting rid of the vacuum system is about the best tech upgrade I’ve made since I quit using a typewriter. And you were right about the autopilot. Thanks for that!
    Last edited by StuBob; 06-03-2022 at 07:49 AM. Reason: Line spacing
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  8. #128
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Yes, the newer AV-30 has an internal magnetometer. They’ve now come out with an external magnetometer as well, not yet certified, but working on it.

    You can take input from virtually any GPS, and feed that into AV,30 as well.

    MTV
    https://uavionix.com/uavionix-introd...eter+for+AV-30
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  9. #129
    supilot's Avatar
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    It’s been a while since I did my panel. I looked at the AV-30s, but at least at the time, you couldn’t get them to display glideslope from navigator input. Azimuth only. I occasionally fly IFR, so that’s a deal breaker for me. I have a AV-20 in the supercub. It’s okay, but it’s definitely not Garmin caliber, in my opinion. If I was doing a panel today, I’d buy dual GI-275s (maybe 3 or get a CGR-30P) and then remove the six pack. Light, simple, redundant and backup batteries are nice. Add an iPad somewhere and you’re set. Wallet will be easier to sit on as well.
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  10. #130
    centmont's Avatar
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    Really like this.... It's potential, however, far exceeds my abilities. I have gone to sleep for most of the last 6 months reading Operating Manuals. What I like most is that the information I want is easiest to find. Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by centmont View Post
    Really like this.... It's potential, however, far exceeds my abilities. I have gone to sleep for most of the last 6 months reading Operating Manuals. What I like most is that the information I want is easiest to find. Click image for larger version. 

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    Thatís a beautiful panel, Ralph!


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  12. #132
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    The display area on the GI275 is actually larger than G5. Configuration options allow you to dumb it down to just display what is on the G5 if you need that - but just because you can show less data on the G5 does not mean it's bigger or easier to see and read.


    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Too small. Good pixel density doesn’t do much for old eyes. It’s like buying a $20K home stereo when your tinnitus is so bad you can’t hear a police siren trying to pull you over. iPad Pro and an adhrs to feed it. Works great.

  13. #133
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    Word I'm getting is that you can't put the 10" G3 in an early (53-59) panel due to the size limit of the available space centered on the yoke. You _may_ be able to get a G500txi in there as the 10" version has a wider aspect ratio - meaning it's a little bit shorter and wider when mounted landscape. Because of the STC I think you can't mount it off to the side and replace any primary instruments - the STC and Garmin have strict requirements about the angle from the direct field of view.

    I'd really like to hear if somebody successfully put a G3X 10" in an early skywagon. Anybody done it and have pics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    GI-275’s or G3 with GFC500AP.
    G500 fits better but may be able to shoehorn the G3.


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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by soyAnarchisto View Post
    Word I'm getting is that you can't put the 10" G3 in an early (53-59) panel due to the size limit of the available space centered on the yoke.
    G3X Touch can be implemented with the smaller GDU 470 (7 inch) displays. The redundancy of 2 GDU 470 may be preferable to having all eggs in one GDU 46x basket.

    "A G3X Touch system can have between one and four GDU 4XX displays, with any combination of 10.6Ē(GDU 46X) and 7Ē (GDU 45X or GDU 470) display sizes. Figure 2-2 shows some of the various interface
    options for a GDU 4XX-based system. For GDU 4XX installation information, refer to Section 7,
    Section 8, and Section 9." (Ref G3X Installation manual)
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  15. #135
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Thatís correct, the 10Ē G3 is a hard fit in the early 180ís, whereas the 500TXI should just fit in.


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  16. #136
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    For early 180, the 500TXI works great in 7” landscape. Unfortunately, Garmin won’t make a G3X in 7” landscape (portrait only) ��. Bushliner installs the 10” G3X in early 180, but it’s requires top dash modification (raising). It does look really nice when done. $$!! I’ve seen a 10” Dynon SkyView go into a early 180 without top dash modification and it looked too smushed in there. The 7” SkyView would work, I believe. I’ve flown with a GI275 and it doesn’t seem cluttered or overwhelming to me. They’re very nice and I’d have no problem using it as a primary display. I finished my panel with G5s a few weeks before Garmin released the GI275. I love the G5s too.
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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by supilot View Post
    Unfortunately, Garmin wonít make a G3X in 7Ē landscape (portrait only) 🙄.
    Well they do. It's called the GDU 450 but, for some reason unknown to me, this G3X Touch display appears to be only available for experimental.

    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...s/10-05740.php

    Two portrait GDU 470 would allow a similar display format to a 10 inch GDU 46x displaying side by side PFD and MFD. That's the format I prefer to fly with on the 10 inch display. No idea if that could work in a 180.

    I have to say that the certified G3X products are an eye watering price compared to the equivalent experimental versions.

  18. #138
    supilot's Avatar
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    Steve’s 180 is certified. That’s my point. They don’t make a 7” G3X in landscape for certified planes. Need 500TXI for 7” landscape in a certified plane.

  19. #139
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supilot View Post
    Steve’s 180 is certified. That’s my point. They don’t make a 7” G3X in landscape for certified planes. Need 500TXI for 7” landscape in a certified plane.
    Where's Web? Steve's airplane falls under these regulations: "Certification BasisModels 180, 180A and 180B: Part 3 of the Civil Air Regulations dated November 1, 1949, as amended by 3-1 through 3-8except Paragraphs 3.265 and 3.668 of 3-7."
    I'm not a radio person, though I believe there are no requirements for the radios and instruments to be certificated in this airplane when it is operated under part 91.
    NX1PA
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Where's Web? Steve's airplane falls under these regulations: "Certification BasisModels 180, 180A and 180B: Part 3 of the Civil Air Regulations dated November 1, 1949, as amended by 3-1 through 3-8except Paragraphs 3.265 and 3.668 of 3-7."
    I'm not a radio person, though I believe there are no requirements for the radios and instruments to be certificated in this airplane when it is operated under part 91.

    Itís all doable. Just gotta find an IA with sturdy shoulders come annual time

  21. #141
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    Ok. This is what CAR3 says for certification of the aircraft and I've added a VFR and an IFR clip from FAR part 91.205 for operational requirements. We all know that the instruments on the
    TCDS are required to be certified. And if they are required under part 91, they will also need to be certified. If it's NOT listed as required equipment, there is no reg saying that it cannot be installed in addition to the required equipment, just that it cannot take the place of required equipment.

    If you are questioned on this, point out that all required equipment is installed and operational as per TCDS. Any other equipment is just fun stuff to have along.

    Web
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  22. #142
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	61385. Donít know how similar my 61/172 panel is to the 180 but things can be arranged without compromising the structure underneath. The G-5ís had to be offset to the right of the center of the yoke to accomplish that.


    Duff

  23. #143
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    The point of the flat screens is to replace the original equipment as primaryís. If you arenít going to install as primarys I donít see the value of flight instruments being completely redundant.


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  24. #144
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    If I can't replace the primary instruments, then there's no point to spending all that money. I want to get rid of all that junk, not keep it.
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  25. #145
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    Panel Discussion: Cessna 180 Upgrades on Poor Webjanitor Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    The point of the flat screens is to replace the original equipment as primaryís. If you arenít going to install as primarys I donít see the value of flight instruments being completely redundant.


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    Yes, in my install the G-5ís are primary but STC requires a backup to those functions of the remaining steam gauges. Another interesting discovery was that a VSI was required per the Garmin STC even though it is not required equipment for VFR or IFR flight, not for hire. So I gained non-vacuum HSI/AI backup for all thatÖ


    Duff

  26. #146
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    Making Progress

    Not the "dream" panel with G3X's, etc, but a huge upgrade for the old girl on my very limited budget. Have not done the test flight yet, a few things (like 1000 wires) to tie up and then we will try it out! (Before picture on first post).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  27. #147
    SJ's Avatar
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    Here is the "old" look with the GPS installed...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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  28. #148
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    All those wires

    All those wires are connected to 100$ bills.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  29. #149
    Grand Pooh Bah soyAnarchisto's Avatar
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    looking good. I got my 650 installed with 1 GI 275, currently configured as a CDI. That 275 is being converted to an EIS in the next few weeks. I'm still trying to get a garmin dealer to get me two more 275 units with ADAHRS.
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  30. #150
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soyAnarchisto View Post
    looking good. I got my 650 installed with 1 GI 275, currently configured as a CDI. That 275 is being converted to an EIS in the next few weeks. I'm still trying to get a garmin dealer to get me two more 275 units with ADAHRS.
    Iíd love to dump the vacuum system with a couple of those, but just canít swing it at the moment. Maybe next year!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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