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Panel Discussion: Cessna 180 Upgrades on Poor Webjanitor Budget

sj

sj

Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
So below is our 1955 C-180 panel. It's hard to think about changing it because it was completely redone for me by the late Paul Fisher eight or ten years ago, but there are lots of things that need to be addressed and so I am looking for advice on this VERY slippery slope.

Important things to bear in mind:
1. This is our "Cirrus". It's our traveling plane. We like that we can land it off airport and here and there, but we have another plane for kind of monkey business also.
2. I use it as an instrument flying platform - it has an STEC 30 autopilot (also installed by Paul Fisher) - and I am perfectly comfortable with flying it IMC as it sits.
3. On top of the panel, you see the Stratux raspberry PI ADSB receiver. Obviously, to comply with 2020 I am going to have to do some kind of ADSB upgrade at some point.
4. I'm perfectly happy with things like Foreflight / Garmin 496, etc, helping get the job done that I don't need an Aspen.

Things that are not working:
1. The EI UBG is on the fritz
2. The tach is on the fritz
3. The clock is on the fritz :)

Things I am considering:
1. Remove all of the EI instruments and install a CGR-30 OR an EDM-900 - interested in pros and cons. I can convert eight instrument into one!
2. Move the dang GNS430 to the top of the panel so you don't have to apologize for grabbing the passengers knees every time you put in a new destination (this is tricky in '55 I believe).
3. Put in something like that new whizbang garmin G5 display
4. You can't see the KX-155 because the yoke is blocking it, but replace it with something else.
5. Replace the ancient audio panel above the 155 & the intercom with a PS engineering audio panel
5. Get rid of the marker beacon lights :)

I would like to spend as little as possible on all of this - like $10,000 or less.... but maybe I dream....

Ok there you have it, fire away!





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Bonus points if you can tell me what I use the bungee cord for! :)
 
SJ said:

Things that are not working:
1. The EI UBG is on the fritz
2. The tach is on the fritz
3. The clock is on the fritz :)
Click to expand...

I think you best start with troubleshooting your electrical gremlins.... that's just sounds fishy/noisy/grounds/broken crimp joint in connector....

not just throwing money on new installs...
 
Calling soyAnarchisto: Yo Soy, I believe you went through this dance on your ~55 Green Hornet, and it turned out darned nice. Ideas for SJ?

Thanks. cubscout
 
I am a cheap bastard who loves gadgets as much as the next guy. My plane? I would:
replace the AI with a Garmin G5.
Put a Garmin Aera 660 in place of the clock.
Keep the 430 as it lays then link the 660 to the G430 via Gamin connect Flightstream 210.

Deal with ADSB out next year. Fix the other stuff and be done with it.

Ugly but very functional.


To go wizbang. Dump the Vacuum system and add a second G5 as an HSI in place of DG.

The bungee cord holds your iPad or tablet in place.
 
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Whatever you decide for instruments/avionics, cut a new, clean, panel and only cut the holes necessary for your stuff. If you decide that you need a center stack for your avionics, you should look into installing the U yoke in place of the T style you have now. Otherwise all instruments and avionics need to be placed above or below the top of that T.

If you do most of the work yourself, your 10K goal might be doable. But probably not if you pay the hired hands. Think about cutting the panel and fitting the instruments, stringing the wiring, and setting up the breakers/bus bar, yourself. Not rocket science but time intensive stuff.

Before you buy anything, make sure you know exactly WHAT you want the airplane to be capable of, when you're done. I.e., if you need to lighten it up, combining functions into instruments may save weight. Reducing the number of flight instruments will cut weight. Do you need to save real estate? Combining functions into a CGR or JPI engine instrument will clean it up nicely. Do you need the second nav system? If not replace the KX 155 and nav head with a com radio (if needed). Evaluate if you need an audio panel. If you get down to one com/nav, wire it through an intercom like the PM3000. It has a couple of aux audio inputs that can be used to pipe in nav audio. If you decide you need an audio panel, make sure it has a built in intercom to eliminate the stand alone intercom you have now.

As for moving the 430, I guess that all depends on who you're flying with.

Web
 
Garmin limits one G5 per aircraft for IFR stuff, would have to get the book out but a limit there.

IF you were going to a G5 garmin, (great unit I live mine), I would consider upgrade on the 155 to what ever the G5 will talk to so you can really use it as a full efis and flight director.... IF!

The G5 and new com will eat your budget I suspect. But if you want to really look at stuff, make the panel modern center stack so that you can assist the Captain when she wants to fly- you can reach the coms to select while in the right seat and not flying, or left seat not flying!!

If you are going to that trouble, design it so you can work forward over a three year period adding your stuff in like monitors or a new gps comm.

I would find what is reliable to install and de-clutter, what saves effort and makes either seat good to work radios and go from there.
 
Good info folks!

The bungee holds my cell phone over the DG
 
What in the Wild West is right under the mag compass....?

it has two long arms too...?


P. S. Have Lance do it. His looks Great...!
 
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SJ said:
So below is our 1955 C-180 panel. It's hard to think about changing it because it was completely redone for me by the late Paul Fisher eight or ten years ago, but there are lots of things that need to be addressed and so I am looking for advice on this VERY slippery slope.

Important things to bear in mind:
1. This is our "Cirrus". It's our traveling plane. We like that we can land it off airport and here and there, but we have another plane for kind of monkey business also.
2. I use it as an instrument flying platform - it has an STEC 30 autopilot (also installed by Paul Fisher) - and I am perfectly comfortable with flying it IMC as it sits.
3. On top of the panel, you see the Stratux raspberry PI ADSB receiver. Obviously, to comply with 2020 I am going to have to do some kind of ADSB upgrade at some point.
4. I'm perfectly happy with things like Foreflight / Garmin 496, etc, helping get the job done that I don't need an Aspen.

Things that are not working:
1. The EI UBG is on the fritz
2. The tach is on the fritz
3. The clock is on the fritz :)

Things I am considering:
1. Remove all of the EI instruments and install a CGR-30 OR an EDM-900 - interested in pros and cons. I can convert eight instrument into one!
2. Move the dang GNS430 to the top of the panel so you don't have to apologize for grabbing the passengers knees every time you put in a new destination (this is tricky in '55 I believe).
3. Put in something like that new whizbang garmin G5 display
4. You can't see the KX-155 because the yoke is blocking it, but replace it with something else.
5. Replace the ancient audio panel above the 155 & the intercom with a PS engineering audio panel
5. Get rid of the marker beacon lights :)

I would like to spend as little as possible on all of this - like $10,000 or less.... but maybe I dream....

Ok there you have it, fire away!





View attachment 34554
Click to expand...

I don't know how you guy fly with all that crap in front of you? I don't know what 90% of it is or what it does LOL

Glenn
 
cubdriver2 said:
I don't know how you guy fly with all that crap in front of you? I don't know what 90% of it is or what it does LOL

Glenn
Click to expand...

The only time I look at it is when you can't see anything out the windows!
 
Before I did anything I’d have want to know where Dynon is with their PMAd Skyview system and I’d explore a G3X Touch using the X Cub installation to support an approval. Both of those systems are going to make the rest of our panels yesterday’s news. I re-did my 180 panel 7 years ago. It’s a different world now.
 
With the CGR30P 6 cylinder coming in at just under $4K that is going to blow a big hole in your budget. If do like Mike says and get you existing instruments working that is more $ for those wizbang flight instruments or it might just turn into a snowball and you double you projected budget, not that you know anything about that. ;)
 
I have heard that I can probably move one radio and maybe the txponder or intercom up to the top without having to do the yoke mod. Leave the txponder and the secondary radio down below...
 
1b4d99a9e0dfd7e053d1b36f.jpg

And, ideas from a 170....

d8b5e899e21556357946e54d.jpg

567caae4571190aa4164aeca.jpg

Either way, panel mount your iPad.

pb
 

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Nice, but the first one is a later model with the big panel, the second one is not IFR certified. I need to be IFR certified.
 
Not sure about the STC'd version, but the original G5 can drive an autopilot.
It can also be driven (HSI) by a nav input.
Not sure of you need a Garmin nav or the new Garmin GFC500 autopilot,
or if other brands will work.

I would keep the KX155, still a good radio IMHO even though it's a 30 year old (?) design.
KX155 with glideslope plus a 430 seems like a pretty good combination.

A CGR-30 all-in-one engine monitor would free up a lot of panel space,
plus since you already have a lot of EI gauges you might be able to use your existing probes/sensors
instead of installing and wiring in all new ones.

There should be room for (at least) one nav/com high in the panel,
above the T style control column.
Mount the flat, portable stuff (tablet, phone,etc) below that.
Some stuff (autopilot maybe?) might be shallow enough to go there also without interfering with the control column.

You spend more time looking at the panel (or at least having it within your view) than anything else on the airplane.
That's why to me it's important for the panel to be attractive.
IMHO your panel could really benefit with a paint job, or an overlay,
to get rid of that bare aluminum "prototype" look.
Hard to beat a nice gray finish, goes well with just about any color airplane and interior.
 
SJ said:
... without having to do the yoke mod...
Click to expand...
FYI I have a U yoke, just the yoke, no sprockets and joints/shafts... I left it over at the cessna guy's place here, (I assume he's still got it for sale)... all powder coated..
 
SJ,
I think something similar to the photo is in order. Provision the panel so you can do a G5 or dual G5's in the future if it eats up too much of what you want to spend now. I am not a huge fan of the CGR-30's. I don't have one but I have two friends that have had their share of issues with them. However, you can't beat the display and how little space it takes up.
Happy to help you spend your money,
Joe

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joemcd said:
SJ,
I think something similar to the photo is in order. Provision the panel so you can do a G5 or dual G5's in the future if it eats up too much of what you want to spend now. I am not a huge fan of the CGR-30's. I don't have one but I have two friends that have had their share of issues with them. However, you can't beat the display and how little space it takes up.
Happy to help you spend your money,
Joe

View attachment 34578
Click to expand...

Hey! I've flown 180 Send Money before! It is a nice panel.

sj
 
more info about the dual G5 limitation George??

my boss is planning dual G5's, EDM 900, and a 430 or 650 and removing the vac system and six pack in his 185

Northern Lights Avionics will do the panel cutting and install except the EDM, which will be handled at Lake Hood when the new 550 goes on.
 
Still looking... my manual had a limitation for only one.

Reading the STC's today on the web I see they talk about two, so don't know. Still digging, but it is getting close to the sled race so up to my bald spot trying to get sleds out the door.

One comment I have on the panel SJ- often we do a little more than we can afford- but not enough to get it done.

What ever steps you make ensure that it is a long term solution to make it right. Otherwise you will be back at it in five years spending more money again.
 
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