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Observations on Stewarts System

History of Stewart Systems goes back to Aircraft Finishing System; purchased by the Stewart brothers in the late 90's. Blue River was a completely different company and not at all related to Stewart System. The confusion is in the use of water; the only component used in both systems. Blue River was a water based painting system and Stewart System is a water born system. Water is the carrier agent in Stewart Systems. Hope that clears up the common question about the two companies.
Marty
 
I personally lean toward "Fargo"s assessment, but mostly because the cayalyzed finish coats and my personality do not mix. I cannot follow a recipe. I hate to strain paint. I get really good results with dope.

But boy - for a quick patch, I am sold. They might have me if they get butyrate certified as a top coat. It seems to stick!

Fargo - ever fool with Super Cub 83679? Its Fargo owner was a fed.
 
I love Stewart’s and have used it with great results on a number of projects, but was disappointed to find that apparently the EkoPrime is sensitive to fuel. I covered a fuselage and shot EkoPoly right over the EkoFill, with good results, and then tried EkoPrime over the EkoFill in the interest of saving some paint, as previously stated in this thread. After the plane was assembled and flying, we had a fuel tank leak, and all areas on the wing that got fuel on the inside bubbled the paint and primer(EkoPrimed tank cover with no EkoFill did the same). But fuselage was unaffected where the fuel ran down both inside and out. Have since had another wing with a Stewart’s repair using EkoPrime bubble/wrinkle as well after a fuel leak. Anyone else experienced this? The ekopoly seems totally fuel proof when spilling gas on top, but if it’s over EkoPrime, it can’t handle it from the inside. I’ll be using Stewart’s in the future, but will leave the EkoPrime out...
 
Anybody know of a full time shop that uses Stewarts as their system of choice? Day in and day out.

good question. i was referred to Central Arkansas Aircraft Repair. AFAIK they're not a Stewart-only shop but I was told after thirty years of refinishing airplanes they've tried everything. Haven't called yet but probably will this week unless you beat me to it and can report back. ;)
 
Overall I like the theory of Stewart's and getting away from VOC's but getting consistent professional results seems harder with it as it's way less forgiving than polyfiber/dope. I like their glue, had trouble with the ekofill when I sprayed it got run's and if you lessened the fluid control to stop the run's it would hit the fabric dry and have a sandpaper like feeling just no happy medium. The ecofill sands nice so after talking with Jason when he worked there I settled on shooting it dry and sanding it smooth as it was easier than sanding runs out, but the problem only appeared after I applied the yellow ekopoly. The sandpaper did not reach into the pinked edges of the tapes and after the yellow was on there was perfect 2" gritty lines runing down the sides of the fuselage. Never had problems painting ecopoly sprayed very similar to aerothane and that is where most seem to have trouble, had a little more orange peel than I like but I didn't want to deviate from the direction.

Did I just get a bad batch of ecofill? Don't know but it seems that most 1st timers that are using the system paint things flat and one side at a time so you don't get runs and I goes on fine as did my tail feathers but if you are doing this for a living you don't have time to paint one side at a time plus It looks better painted all at once handing or in a rotator. Is it the lack of solvents that give it bite into the brushed coat? What ever happened to the blisters that were appearing a few years down the road if it got wet or in high humidity? Stewart's is finiky about the spray gun you use, now do you have a compressor that has the CFM's that the finish line HVLP they recommend needs, got to have real clean air so now you need filter system, all stuff you need for any system but polyfiber can be sprayed with about anything short of a garden hose and get descent results. My friend Lynn uses a turbine HVLP for everything from polyspray to aerothane and he's winning lindys with his planes, don't know how Stewart's works with turbine systems but it wasn't recommended to me at the time I used it.

Thanks for the feedback. The impression I'm getting is that if you really follow the directions and maybe even use tweaks that people familiar with the system are willing to offer then you've got a good chance of getting great results. If you wing it then all bets are off. I have to admit, when it turns out just right it's pretty damn nice!
 
Yes, it was Les' Cub. We picked it up a couple years ago and brought it west. Very heavy, and crooked tail, but otherwise a nice looking airplane. Engine did not last very long - I think it sat too much.

I started with Poly Fiber/dope finish in 1969, before Poly Tone. I liked it, but soon graduated to nitrate/butyrate because of cost. Although I now use the Binks Model 18, I have sprayed dope and Poly with a horrible suction feed deal that worked with an air brush compressor. A little 400 wet sanding and some polishing compound and it looked just fine.
 
I am not sure if what I am about to relate is relevant but I will talk about it anyway.

Covered a Cub rudder in Stewarts. Jason provided the product, near the time he was about to leave them, to give you an idea of the era/formulation of the topcoat.

I loved the process. I was able to spray it laying flat as I have fixtures that allow holding the control surfaces and flipping them over so I can shoot all sides in the same "go". The glue was great and foolproof. A revelation compared to SuperSeam or Polytac. (both of which I have used extensively professionally).

I followed this with a Cub aileron with Ceconite.

I realized then how much faster and easier the Stewarts System progressed, even with that rudder being my first experience with Stewarts, AND my worries with the waterborne topcoat Polyurethane and the scary reports of its performance.

Not to mention the stink factor.

I am reading all these posts since I figure my next cover will be Stewarts, on my personal exp Cub, maybe with a different topcoat, as I wonder if that rudder success was a fluke.

You guys ever see that swatch of fabric with Stewarts that those guys carry around in their pocket? That stuff is incredible!
 
Thanks for the feedback. The impression I'm getting is that if you really follow the directions and maybe even use tweaks that people familiar with the system are willing to offer then you've got a good chance of getting great results. If you wing it then all bets are off. I have to admit, when it turns out just right it's pretty damn nice!
I think this is a pretty fair comment. For success with Stewart Systems, It does require that you follow the steps laid out in the manual. If you try to wing it than the variables will stack up against you and problems will crop up. The picture below are panels shot by first time Stewart Systems users at the seminar I taught in December. These were all shot in my home shop with just the basic set up recommended in the manual. I use a compressor bought on Craigs list, a home made dryer found here on SC, and the spray gun recommended in the manual. My set up is not high tech at all. I try to teach and show that exceptional results can be achieved with out a huge investment in equipment. I'm more than happy to share the techniques needed to get this kind of finish. A couple options I'd like to offer. I'll be doing workshops in a few weeks at the US Sport Aviation Expo in Sebring Florida from Jan 24-27. We will be there and teaching all during the expo. These are free workshops. If you are in the area, come say high and sit in on the workshops. I'll be happy to share everything and answer any questions. We will also be at Sun N Fun in April, and have a booth at the Alaska Aviation Gathering May 5 & 6 in Anchorage. Oshkosh will follow in July, again with workshops the entire week. The idea here is education. The more you know and understand the system the better the results you will get. I'll be doing another seminar in California in March and I'm also available to do a seminar at your location. Please, if you have any questions, let me know. Supercub.org has been so good to me over the years I want to give back in any way I can. One of these days, I'll actually be finished with my project!
Marty

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4th plane with Stewarts, I've been flying the Bearhawk since 2010. The Myers wings were done three years ago. Couple of Pacers and lot's of repairs over other systems. It works fine for me. I get a little sick of saying it but all systems have their quirks, you just got to figure it out. I paint lots of things (like the Cobra, not Stewart's) and I'm fussy and I can get really good results with Stewart's. photo (3).JPGMeyers.JPGIMG_0201.jpg
 

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Marty, any comment on the EkoPrime/fuel compatibility? My intent certainly wasn’t to bash the product- I definitely plan to keep using it- just curious if I screwed something up or if others have noticed this too...?
 
When I painted my Backcountry PA-18 with Stewart's, I followed the instructions to the letter. I had never painted an airplane before or anything else for the matter, but I suppose I'm good at following instructions. Anyway, what really helped me the most was having test panels during the process for the top coat. I would spray a small test panel and then transition to the real plane part. I avoided problems using the test panels. I was pleased with the entire process and will use it again on my next project.

Thanks,
Blackhelo
 

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Hope u arent referring to me. I just fell off the snowball truck when it comes to Stewarts. And Jason provided the product gratis, so yu know I cannot be trusted Tim.
 
Marty, any comment on the EkoPrime/fuel compatibility? My intent certainly wasn’t to bash the product- I definitely plan to keep using it- just curious if I screwed something up or if others have noticed this too...?
I had a tank on my Cub split and leak, Av gas ran on the inside of the wing as well as on the outside as well as the fuselage. It is finished with the Ekofill, Ekoprime, and their top coat. It did not damage the finish. Stewart’s had told me years ago that Mogas will cause damage if on the inside of the fabric because of the various chemicals used in the formulation of the Mogas. They recommend spraying the tank bay.
 
I've always shot it hanging, never had a problem. I teach the paint class at Sun 'n Fun for them...it's taught vertical. No need to shoot horizontal. It's not difficult, but it IS different. The people that seem to have the most problems are ones that have lots of experience...myself included...I have to constantly remind myself to follow procedures.
John
 
I've always shot it hanging, never had a problem. I teach the paint class at Sun 'n Fun for them...it's taught vertical. No need to shoot horizontal. It's not difficult, but it IS different. The people that seem to have the most problems are ones that have lots of experience...myself included...I have to constantly remind myself to follow procedures.
John

that's exactly what happened to a friend of mine, he had a lot of experience and tried to spray Stewart like every other paint he had sprayed. It didn't work and he had to sand it all off. He did it again the way the guys at the company had told him to and it turned out beautifully.
 
Marty,bear hawk and anybody else that has had multiple successe with Stewart's are you painting everything flat or have you been able to paint vertical without problems? I'm mainly intrested in ecofill as I found spraying ecopoly no diffrent than spraying aerothane and had good results with it, ecofill has been my only gripe with Stewart's and it seems I'm the only person who can f*@k it up. At the time I was using a Sata 4000rp but have now bought a 5000rp and 1000k pressure pot set up so maybe someday I'll give it a try on somthing small and see if what happens.
I've never had a problem with ekofill flat or horizontal. That Sata 4000 is my favorite gun but honestly I shoot the Ekofill with my old Devilbiss Finishline with a big 1.8 tip. Don't know, maybe those good guns atomize the Ekofill too much? Do you have a decent primer gun to try?
 
Marty,bear hawk and anybody else that has had multiple successe with Stewart's are you painting everything flat or have you been able to paint vertical without problems? I'm mainly intrested in ecofill as I found spraying ecopoly no diffrent than spraying aerothane and had good results with it, ecofill has been my only gripe with Stewart's and it seems I'm the only person who can f*@k it up. At the time I was using a Sata 4000rp but have now bought a 5000rp and 1000k pressure pot set up so maybe someday I'll give it a try on somthing small and see if what happens.
Not sure about the gun set up you are using; specifically the pressure pot. No idea how that will effect the paint or Ekofill; something we haven't worked with as far as I know. I teach with the Finishline 4 with 1.5 tip for Ekofill and 1.3 tip for Ekopoly. As for vertical or horizontal, no difference. I taught with both methods in December with no difference in results.
Marty
 
Marty, any comment on the EkoPrime/fuel compatibility? My intent certainly wasn’t to bash the product- I definitely plan to keep using it- just curious if I screwed something up or if others have noticed this too...?

I wanted to see for my self how Stewart Systems held up to fuel. I tested two different samples of painted fabric; one in 100LL and one in California Auto Gas with 10% Ethanol (nasty stuff). One (orange in attached picture) is a sample finished as per the manual. The second, (dark olive and white) is finished as recommended inside a tank bay; the inside and outside of the fabric are both finished in Ekopoly. When tested in auto gas (87 octane with 10% ethanol CA auto gas) both samples reacted very poorly and the paint lifted. The two samples on the blue paper towel were in auto fuel only a couple minutes before lifting. The orange sample in the auto fuel (left jar) shows how the fuel causes the finish to crinkle. When I tested the same samples in 100LL there was no reaction to either fabric samples. After 2 weeks soaking in 100LL there is still no reaction to the 100 LL fuel on either samples. I have attached pictures of the samples for you to see. The sample of yellowish fuel is the auto gas, the blue is 100LL. No opportunity to test in Mogas without ethanol; not available anywhere close to me here in CA. The unknown additives in CA autogas is what causes the issues. The reaction of the Ekobond to the Ethanol is exactly why it's not recommended for Aircraft use unless engine and air frame are specifically set up for it. CA regular with ethanol has ruined every small engine carb I have used it in. Back to 100LL, no reaction with samples. I would stick to 100LL or the new Swift UL94 regardless of the paint system as the additives in auto fuel today are so unpredictable from one state to another. If you really want to use MOGAS, I would suggest testing how your local MOGAS reacts with Ekopoly or any other system.
Marty
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Interesting- thanks Marty! Both planes I referenced use almost exclusively auto fuel- no ethanol here but evidently some additive that it doesn’t like... I’ll try to do a test in the future- I’m pretty sure it’s only the ekoprimed areas that had any trouble, but who knows. FWIW I did spray the interior of the bays with ekopoly, but that doesn’t do any good behind the spar...
 
The auto fuel incompatibility issue seems like a big deal to me. Fuel spills happen, with certain colors like yellow, Ekoprime can’t be avioded, so I wonder how big of issue it is in the real world. Could be a deal breaker for some folks.
 
I have Stewarts, the formulation from 2011.

I occasionally accidentally spill a little fuel while adding gas to the tanks. There has been no apparent effect on the finish, with either non-ethanol mogas or with 100 LL.

However I did have a small leak in one of my fuel valves, that dripped some gas down the inside of the fuselage cover. That did cause some lifting. I don't recall how much of it was 100 or mogas, but probably mostly mogas.
 
The auto fuel incompatibility issue seems like a big deal to me. Fuel spills happen, with certain colors like yellow, Ekoprime can’t be avoided, so I wonder how big of issue it is in the real world. Could be a deal breaker for some folks.
Ekoprime isn't an issue. When I tested the fabric in CA auto gas with ethanol, the Ekobond is what let go; the painted surface came off un-touched. Ekofill, Ekoprime and EkoPoly all seemed to be unaffected. One of the additives in the fuel attacked the ekobond. Andy tested the same fabric sample I used at Stewart Systems home base in Ohio. Auto fuel with ethanol there had no effect on the finish, same for clean Mogas. Ohio gas had no effect if the fabric was first shot in Ekopoly, followed by Ekofill than the top coat of Ekopoly. That's the problum, regional fuel uses what ever additives they want to achieve the octane and other ratings they want. Unpredictability with ethanol fuel is the issue. Mogas seems to be ok in most areas; none available here in CA.
Marty
Marty
 
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