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Thread: Whirlwind Ground Adjust?

  1. #1
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Whirlwind Ground Adjust?

    Ok they’ve been in the field enough now for some good or not so good results.
    who’s running one and what do you think? On what engine?
    Did a search and read all that
    thx
    jim

  2. #2
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Timmy's looks horrible, got drool all over it

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  3. #3
    Tim's Avatar
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    Jim, I like mine, fat for a long trip, or fine for competition. I leave mine in a happy medium. That setting gives me more cruise than my Catto and short enough take off for me. I'm very happy with it


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

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    Couldn't be happier! Once I put it on the Dynavibe prop balancer it became "Catto" smooth. That being said I still wonder about going back to the Catto and just carrying a second prop to events. The idea of always changing the WW is easy but not reality. It's 20 minutes every time and the Dynavibe isn't handy to run every time. That's the real dilemma. I'm good now until I have to change the pitch again. The WW is smooth, just not Catto smooth

    AKT

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    Sky has or had one on on his Cub and wrote about it here a few years back.

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    LOVE mine. Have it on my 160HP. I started out with an 82".. I think it was a bit too much. I swapped out center hubs to the 'short hub' and that got me down to an 80. IF i was only on wheels.. I'd do a 78.. and really have some speed. As I do floats and skis too... 80 should be perfect.

    I set it out coarse for a long trip.. it helped, even with the 31s. Got home and got it set a bit too flat.. but should be perfect for skis and floats.. which is my next two planned uses.

    As other said.. 20 minutes to change. I find I occasionally hit on a setting that's super smooth, and others that don't run quite as smooth.

    JP

  7. #7
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Been running mine since may and really like it. Have flown it on floats and wheels. Skis soon. It is very smooth and easy to change. 20 min. change and half of that is removing and installing the spinner.

  8. #8
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    One thing that is interesting about WW
    props is a few friends running them have had prop strikes with them and they instantly shear right off at the hub . So they are cheap insurance policy for not winding up with a bent crank flange.
    Jim everyone up North loves them but it does sound like after the initial set up they usually stay set........
    Most claim the Catto will still outperform it with its greater lenght.
    All day the Catto is the smoothest prop you can run.
    I would like to have a WW just fot winter flying.........

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    Sky has or had one on on his Cub and wrote about it here a few years back.
    Mine is the heavier one from the other Whirlwind company. https://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/STOLGseries.asp The pitch change time can be measured in seconds without removing the spinner. I have not used a balancing device on it and have found no need to even use one as it does run smoothly.
    N1PA

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
    LOVE mine. Have it on my 160HP. I started out with an 82".. I think it was a bit too much. I swapped out center hubs to the 'short hub' and that got me down to an 80. IF i was only on wheels.. I'd do a 78.. and really have some speed. As I do floats and skis too... 80 should be perfect.

    I set it out coarse for a long trip.. it helped, even with the 31s. Got home and got it set a bit too flat.. but should be perfect for skis and floats.. which is my next two planned uses.

    As other said.. 20 minutes to change. I find I occasionally hit on a setting that's super smooth, and others that don't run quite as smooth.

    JP
    I and others use a system to set these adj pitch props, using a cheap laser, jigged to the blades in such a way to exactly replicate it's location on each blade. Then, as each blade is rotated into position (another simple jig assures consistent of each blade to the set position). The laser shines a dot on the hangar floor as a reference point, when all three blades hit the spot, you are as good as possible. This method is very accurate, as the moment arm is several feet long, very small blade movements make large movements of the dot on the floor. This method plus a BalanceMaster......SMOOTH!
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  11. #11
    Scouter's Avatar
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    I was mainly interesetd in the process to change pitch and how long it takes. Ive seen several here in Maine, flown by guys who are the best.
    so if they are running them and are happy, there must be something to it. Im running an 84-42.5 Catto on my carbon cub right now and it pulls like crazy
    and climbs in this cold air like the space shuttle . I see 100 mph or so at 6 gph and 2300 on 31s.. Of course I go by the max allowed Hp on the dash placard I came home from NY last week with a 40 mph tailwind at 9500 ft. Thought I had died and come back to life as an X cub at 140 mph the whole way. The big compromise is if you want to take off in the length of the plane and cruise at 140 going somewhere. Im headed to a warmer place in December with the cub, wondering if it would be a big nusiance in the field to change pitch. Kevin what are you seeing for cruise speeds and fuel burn?



    jim
    Last edited by Scouter; 11-20-2019 at 11:53 AM.

  12. #12
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Yeah, while the laser system is the most accurate we've (meaning us Rotax riff raff who have been flying with ground adjust props forever, they are common as dirt for us, I'm a rarity, using a fixed Prince prop) found to set pitch, it takes use of a hangar to make it easy. The jigs would be small and light enough to pack though. I keep a adjustable pitch prop as a back up, and just went thru the setting procedure, before setting it on the shelf, just in case. It was my first time using the laser, though I know many who swear by it, for ultimate smoothness, and it was real slick but not out in the field.

  13. #13
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Jim, changing one in the field will require 20 min..You will need a phillips screwdriver for the spinner screws, a 3/8 ratchet with a 9/16 socket, and torque wrench (ft lbs.) and the wooden pitch locator that comes with the prop. I bought a digital protractor tool that is about 2 1/2 " square and an inch thick. I find it easy to adjust within 2 tenths of a deg. which gives very smooth performance. I have only done it a couple times and see ways that I can simplify the process some, but don't find it to be any kind of pain and certainly worth it for the option of being able to make changes. My 2 cents. Reid
    '

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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    This method plus a BalanceMaster......SMOOTH!
    how much does that Balancemaster weigh? anyone got the weight?

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Sensnich have their 80" ground adjustable props being tested on some Super Cubs in Alaska according to a guy I spoke with last weekend who is involved. They use a key that helps lock the blades at the same pitch.
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    Steve Pierce

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  16. #16

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    My Whirlwind came with the plywood fixture that holds a digital angle cube. If you're in the field(trying to get off a gravel bar), just wade ashore and cut a gauge stick so as each blade is brought level its at the same height off the ground. Doesn't have to be perfectly level, just the same as the other blades. You don't have to level the fuse, just measure the blades, take an average, then reduce pitch x.x degrees on each blade. I don't know what my pitch is, I just tune for static. If I needed to know then yeah, I'd do it in the shop with a level crankshaft. Love my Whirlwind.
    What's a go-around?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by bodumatau View Post
    how much does that Balancemaster weigh? anyone got the weight?
    found the answer on another post by StewartB - Answers- Measured weight 1.2#. Flange thickness .038.

  18. #18

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    What blade angle did you find ideal, and what engine? Thanks! Just got a GA200L STOL and am putting it on a 0-320 160 hp. Cheers

  19. #19
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    I have had mine just one full year now so don't know all the capabilities yet. It has been flown on wheels,skis, and floats during all the seasons and temperatures. 0320 160 with 10-1 compression. I have pretty much, at this point anyway, settled on numbers between 11.5 and 12.5 depending on mission. I did go to 13 on wheels once and got cruise over 105 mph at 2450 rpm on an elec. tach. Ran 11.5 this winter on skis and cruised 85 to 90 and had plenty of takeoff thrust in deep or wet snow on 2300 Summit wheel skis. Prob. could safely run to 12 deg pitch for most use on snow and floats. Did find during 80 deg. temp last summer that I was running through the prop in the 11.5 setting and went to 12.5 and got the "pull" back. Your numbers may differ.

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    Thanks supercrow...... That's helpful. Blue skies

  21. #21
    Tim's Avatar
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    I same engine as super crow and set mine at 12.7. a little longer on the ground but I like the cruise speed. (2+2)

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

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    I think I'm around 11.8 now. I haven't kept notes. Should have. 160HP. It's probably just a whisker too flat. I've been on skis and floats.. so I'd rather have the low end, and pull it back on extended climb out. I changed hubs from the 82" down to the 80. I was much happier. If I was on wheels only.. I'd have gone with the 78 as per Back Country Cubs recommendation. Love the prop.

    JP

  23. #23

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    My 0-320 (with H-pistons and custom exhaust) is probably making around 170-175Hp so, it seems like somewhere between 12 and 12.7 is a good place to start. Thanks for all the info, guys. I'll report what I find after static and then, after getting some time on it. Changing from an 84/37 Catto. At sea level on a cool day, it was a great prop. Lots of pull 0-30 but, I'm hoping (and have been told) that going with the 80" WW (when pitched right) will give me nearly the same STOL performance but better cruise and here in Montana, on a hot and high day, the Catto just wasn't efficient. We shall see......

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    Scouter's Avatar
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    ive continued to work with the WW GA200 on my CarbonCub
    Yesterday we had a Deere tractor go down with a faulty speed sensor. That led to a quick trip to the dealership 120 miles away in the bird. It was just me in it so I took a few minutes and set the prop at the highest number I have tried to date, this was at 15
    Would only pull 2280 rpm on climb out and at cruise it wouldn’t hit 2700 redline but close
    Mostly saw 116 mph at 8.5 gph, this plane is on 31s
    All the above comments are true, some settings are much smoother than others
    i had originally thought the STOL performance with this prop would be better with thevengine able to redline just as you lifted off, but not true
    It pulls much harder at 2550 than at 2700
    It always seems to be in the wrong pitch setting, if you want to play on gravel bars after a long flight to get there, or you find you have to give someone a ride and wish it was flatter
    Overall it’s pretty impressive, and surprising how little adjustment it takes to make a big difference
    that said , the dealer I got it from said Catto had got most all of the low hanging fruit with their design, so don’t buy a whirlwind to gain takeoff performance if you are running a Catto. I am going to try the 84/42.5 back on it next week to compare some more
    And now Cory Robin is running a 86 inch Sterna ga on his CarbonCub with great results. Only 2 weeks left to defend my honor at Cubcrafters Northeast Stol you know
    jim
    Last edited by Scouter; 05-12-2020 at 03:58 AM.

  25. #25
    40m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
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    ive continued to work with the WW GA200 on my CarbonCub
    Yesterday we had a Deere tractor go down with a faulty speed sensor. That led to a quick trip to the dealership 120 miles away in the bird. It was just me in it so I took a few minutes and set the prop at the highest number I have tried to date, this was at 15
    Would only pull 2280 rpm on climb out and at cruise it wouldn’t hit 2700 redline but close
    Mostly saw 116 mph at 8.5 gph, this plane is on 31s
    All the above comments are true, some settings are much smoother than others
    i had originally thought the STOL performance with this prop would be better with thevengine able to redline just as you lifted off, but not true
    It pulls much harder at 2550 than at 2700
    It always seems to be in the wrong pitch setting, if you want to play on gravel bars after a long flight to get there, or you find you have to give someone a ride and wish it was flatter
    Overall it’s pretty impressive, and surprising how little adjustment it takes to make a big difference
    that said , the dealer I got it from said Catto had got most all of the low hanging fruit with their design, so don’t buy a whirlwind to gain takeoff performance if you are running a Catto. I am going to try the 84/42.5 back on it next week to compare some more
    And now Cory Robin is running a 86 inch Sterna ga on his CarbonCub with great results. Only 2 weeks left to defend my honor at Cubcrafters Northeast Stol you know
    jim
    Jim,
    If Ny Glenn doesn't start pulling some strings with his friend in Albany you could probably win with a canoe paddle strapped on.
    Last edited by 40m; 05-12-2020 at 03:31 PM.

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!

  26. #26
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Morning Jim. For what it's worth. It has been my experience over the years that a borer ( and now with the WW), that the strongest pull is not at the higher end of the tach. Forget what your ears are hearing and feel what is really happening. I would agree that for competition, the high RPM gives you the best acceleration and "off the ground" in ground effect. At Greenville, I used to strive for redline early and 2800 in ground effect. For everyday practical use, I like between 2400 and 2500 for best pull and much better climb. On a plain old 7-1 comp. 150HP it is pretty impressive pull at 2350 with an 82-41. I think a lot of people are spinning their wheels with pitch that is too flat for everyday use. The 11.5 I mention above is below that practical use limit, but on skis in harsh condition, it makes the difference between going now or packing down a snowshoe path so that you can have 5 or 6 more MPH. I would like to mention that my WW is dead smooth at any pitch, but I am fussy about getting the blades down to .2deg. of each other or less. I like to take the bottom spark plugs out so that I am not fighting comp. when swinging the blade. Lots easier to get them together without moving a blade while swinging it. LOL. I'm no different than the rest of these guys when I say I think I know what I am taking about. But it sure is fun to compare notes.
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    I ended up with a starting point of 12.8 which, gave me 2480-2500 static at firewall. Trying to find that sweet spot of good STOL but, better cruise than my Catto (which was a great prop but, not the right prop for my engine, I don't think). Like I said above, I just didn't have the torque to spin an 84"/37 to have it be efficient in even "most" categories on a hot day in the mountains. If I was flying in a cool climate and at sea level, I probably would have kept it but, going with the 80" WW should give me nearly the take off performance but better cruise, and possibly better temps (although my engine doesn't run overly hot). We shall see...... just waiting for the rain to stop nowClick image for larger version. 

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  28. #28
    gpepperd's Avatar
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    The Whirlwind should be smooth at any rpm if both blades are adjusted properly. If you are experiencing anything other than that you should recheck both blades for pitch. Great care must be used when torquing the hub or the blades can be inadvertently pulled out of the desired setting. It also helps to glue a piece of thin steel sheet to your pitch paddle so the digital protractor will stay magnetally attached. For an 0-320 with 10:1 I liked a setting of 12.2. It seemed to have the best of all performance.
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of
    that comes from bad judgment. will rodgers

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  29. #29
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
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    ive continued to work with the WW GA200 on my CarbonCub
    Yesterday we had a Deere tractor go down with a faulty speed sensor. That led to a quick trip to the dealership 120 miles away in the bird. It was just me in it so I took a few minutes and set the prop at the highest number I have tried to date, this was at 15
    Would only pull 2280 rpm on climb out and at cruise it wouldn’t hit 2700 redline but close
    Mostly saw 116 mph at 8.5 gph, this plane is on 31s
    All the above comments are true, some settings are much smoother than others
    i had originally thought the STOL performance with this prop would be better with thevengine able to redline just as you lifted off, but not true
    It pulls much harder at 2550 than at 2700
    It always seems to be in the wrong pitch setting, if you want to play on gravel bars after a long flight to get there, or you find you have to give someone a ride and wish it was flatter
    Overall it’s pretty impressive, and surprising how little adjustment it takes to make a big difference
    that said , the dealer I got it from said Catto had got most all of the low hanging fruit with their design, so don’t buy a whirlwind to gain takeoff performance if you are running a Catto. I am going to try the 84/42.5 back on it next week to compare some more
    And now Cory Robin is running a 86 inch Sterna ga on his CarbonCub with great results. Only 2 weeks left to defend my honor at Cubcrafters Northeast Stol you know
    jim

    I hope you've been practicing
    Likes 40m liked this post

  30. #30
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I hope you've been practicing
    Not much Tom. Been chasing tractors and fighting ma nature for the past couple of weeks. Nothing gets your spirit soaring like 6 inches of snow on new planted potatoes and corn.
    You have a new secret weapon?

    Jim
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    Not much Tom. Been chasing tractors and fighting ma nature for the past couple of weeks. Nothing gets your spirit soaring like 6 inches of snow on new planted potatoes and corn.
    You have a new secret weapon?

    Jim
    If by secret weapon you mean not flying then yes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    Not much Tom. Been chasing tractors and fighting ma nature for the past couple of weeks. Nothing gets your spirit soaring like 6 inches of snow on new planted potatoes and corn.
    You have a new secret weapon?

    Jim
    And with the recent shortage of Lays lights in the store we sure hope you have great crops this year.

  33. #33

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    Finally got some time with the new prop this morning. I'm impressed. Far exceeded any expectations I had. Set at 12.8, I had better pull off the ground than the Catto I was running and the climb was notably better. Higher airspeed at a steeper rate of climb. Repeated and consistent. I don't think the Catto (84/37) was a bad prop (obviously), just not as well matched for my engine and airplane as the WW 80". But, here's the shocker. Before I put my LE slats on, I was seeing a cruise speed of 90..... maybe 94 in perfect conditions with the Catto. After I installed the slats, I felt like I was plowing at 79-82. The slats were awesome in slow flight and for everything STOL but, in cruise, I wondered if they would be worth it. Today, over the hour and a half... I checked it several times because I was so surprised. With the slats and this new prop, I was getting consistently 96-98 indicated in straight and level cruise at 2450 rpm. Couldn't believe that even with drag devices on my LE's, I got a better cruise than without and the other prop and bettered my cruise with them by 15 mph. Crazy. So, happy to report that in all categories, for my plane, the Whirlwind 80" is a more efficient prop without a doubt.Click image for larger version. 

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  34. #34

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    As someone put it, “Great! Another almost certified prop!” I’m very interested in this prop. I hear that Sensenich and WW have teamed up on a ground adjustable certified prop. Is this the prop, and any speculation from either on certification date?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoJo View Post
    As someone put it, “Great! Another almost certified prop!” I’m very interested in this prop. I hear that Sensenich and WW have teamed up on a ground adjustable certified prop. Is this the prop, and any speculation from either on certification date?
    Also curious about a date and following this. Waiting on the acme black ops shocks as well.., we’ll see who wins the certification race 🤷.


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