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Your Favorite Hand Gun for Flying in AK, MT, ID?

WindOnHisNose

WindOnHisNose

BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
I am a fan of Glock hand guns, have several, but none of a caliber >40 caliber S&W. Tuck Barrett insisted I get a 44 magnum several years ago when he and I flew in the mountains near Great Falls and over the Bob Marshall Wilderness areas, exploring the many terrific airstrips in which we could land our CT210s. I bought a S&W 629 Mountain Gun, 44 magnum. While I like the revolver, I would be interested in a semi-automatic.

This was brought to mind as I watched the post made by Stewart Barnes in which one of Paul Klaus pilots was carrying his hand gun in a chest harness.

I would be interested in hearing your opinions on what hand gun would fit this purpose, and what caliber.

Thanks.

Randy
 
WindOnHisNose said:
I am a fan of Glock hand guns, have several, but none of a caliber >40 caliber S&W. Tuck Barrett insisted I get a 44 magnum several years ago when he and I flew in the mountains near Great Falls and over the Bob Marshall Wilderness areas, exploring the many terrific airstrips in which we could land our CT210s. I bought a S&W 629 Mountain Gun, 44 magnum. While I like the revolver, I would be interested in a semi-automatic.

This was brought to mind as I watched the post made by Stewart Barnes in which one of Paul Klaus pilots was carrying his hand gun in a chest harness.

I would be interested in hearing your opinions on what hand gun would fit this purpose, and what caliber.

Thanks.

Randy
Click to expand...

The short Redhawk in .454 with chest holster - pretty common up here.

Lots of guys have the 10mm glocks, considering it myself. I often carry a glock 22 & the keltec sub2000 in survival bag as they share mags & it doesn’t take much space. Wish they made the sub2000 in 10mm!


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.480 Ruger Magnum 2.5” in chest holster. Easy draw while wearing fishing waders.


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500 mag in a chest holster. Go big or go home.

I have an assortment of semi-auto handguns. Those aren't good bear guns.
 
stewartb said:
500 mag in a chest holster. Go big or go home.

I have an assortment of semi-auto handguns. Those aren't good bear guns.
Click to expand...

While I do own a 454 Casull, it is heavy, and a pita to carry, even with a chest holster. Mostly they make people feel better.

Do some ballistic research, if I am concerned about bears I want a 12 gauge shotgun, short barrel- slugs and buckshot mixed. An additional advantage is that you get far less grief if you find yourself over canadian airspace.
 
Randy,

An old range officer once replied to my inquiry, which was very similar to yours. His response: Carry the biggest pistol that you can shoot well, and that you will shoot frequently.

Hand cannons may make you feel better, but if you actually need to shoot something....in a hurry....you may be better off with something with a bit less recoil. And, three rounds (or seven) center of mass with a smaller projectile may do the job better than one big one. Maybe.

And finally, lugging around six pounds of six gun can get to be a drag.

I shoot a .40 better than a 10 mil, or just about anything bigger. I can HIT targets with a .40, and I’ve carried various flavors of .40 for a lot of years.

My personal favorite for a number of years is the H & K USP 2000 Compact. A well made, reliable gun that works for me.

i carried a Glock 22 or 23 for a number of years at work. I like the H & K because it’s a little more compact, but still handles well.

But, whatever YOU shoot well AND that you will carry. Gun does little good in the baggage compartment.

If you’re really looking for reliable protection from bears, carry a shotgun. Offers massive firepower, plus non lethal alternatives to discourage escalation.

MTV
 
aktango58 said:
While I do own a 454 Casull, it is heavy, and a pita to carry, even with a chest holster. Mostly they make people feel better.

Do some ballistic research, if I am concerned about bears I want a 12 gauge shotgun, short barrel- slugs and buckshot mixed. An additional advantage is that you get far less grief if you find yourself over canadian airspace.
Click to expand...

I personally know 2 people who have taken down charging bears with the Ruger & another who saved his dad’s life mid mauling with it. So yeah, guess it made them feel better - as in alive.


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stewartb said:
I have an assortment of semi-auto handguns. Those aren't good bear guns.
Click to expand...

https://www.nationalparkstraveler....-hikers-denali-national-park-and-preserve5943

This bear would beg to differ.

Carry what you are comfortable and capable with. The hype of a .700 ballistic mag snub nose won’t do you a lick of good if you can’t shoot it.

I carry the same thing I carry everywhere else, a 9mm. I’ll take 17 chances at a little hole over 5 chances of a slightly larger hole.


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Ramdy, most folks can shoot a 1911 well and there are lots of ways to get that platform.

I have a .460 Rowland drop-in "kit" (barrel with an inch long compensator and a different spring and guide rod) manufactured by ClarkCustom that provides .44 magnum performance in the 1911 form factor. Purchased from Brownell's.

Mine shoots "nicer" in a Springfield Armory1911 than with the original .45 ACP.

But I find that, working flying in Katmai bear country, my survival bag contains an AR7 takedown .22 rifle, mine is the "bad" Charter Arms version, and is the best shooting .22 I own. hah!

My daily carry is a Glock 43 compact 9mm for two-legged bears. crazy world! Maybe I am getting too accustomed to the 4-leggers amd starting to trust them.
 
Randy
I carry a S&W .44 mag revolver. I use a custom shoulder holster so it is easy to carry with a pack, fly and clean game with it on. I am looking at going to a autoloader for several reasons. My main complaint with the .44 is it is very hard to rapid fire with any accuracy. With a charging bear you won't have much time, I could get off one shot if lucky but getting back on target is very hard. I know I can double triple tap a 9mm with no problem. New data from FBI shows good penetration with newer ammo. I plan on getting some different caliber autoloaders together and see what works best for me. On a side note I have taken care of a few bare bite patients. It happens fast and a gun in the pack won't help. Once a grizzly is on you they will go for the head/neck so cover up as best you can. Play dead for a long time!!!! Two of the patients received a second attack moving too early. Griz usually attack to defend/intimidate, male Black bears attack to eat. Always fight a male black do not play dead! We had two people killed by Black bears this spring. No real right or wrong in gun choice just some rambling to ponder.
DENNY
 
WindOnHisNose;700778 This was brought to mind as I watched the post made by Stewart Barnes in which one of Paul Klaus pilots was carrying his hand gun in a chest harness. I would be interested in hearing your opinions on what hand gun would fit this purpose said:
I observed that too Randy. IMO Glocks are for Cops and those wanting a defensive handgun against skumbags. The PK pilot in video states he is using a 45ACP. A terrible bear round. It's not uncommon to see the 45 fail to penetrate simple barriers during qualifications. It's a round for humans. I had a Ruger Alaskan in 454 and got rid of it after a trip north because of weight. It's too heavy. I now have a Scandium S&W 329 (44mag) in a Simply Rugged holster. It bites the hand when shooting so one needs to practice with it and not be shocked when the hammer falls. I know few people who are very proficient with a handgun. I say that because that's what I see. Lots of people own handguns but they simply don't have much skill with them. Either practice or go SBSS. SHORT BARREL SHOTGUN SLUGS. This pistol now has rubber grips.

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When I was in college flying a few summers in Alaska I was coached to carry a short rifle in the back, like a lever action 444 Marlin or 45-70. It can handle any bear, take down anything you need for meat. You can load the cartridge with everything from 300 grain bear killer to bird shot. Take the cartridge push some cotton on top of the powder, load with number 12 shot and cap it with a gas check. Nice shot shell to kill a bird or squirrel for meat. Place those cartridges on a bandolier strap and you got a very accurate and highly versatile survival weapon that is easy to carry and comfortable to shoot. If you go down with a handgun strapped on your chest, nice way to stove in a few ribs and collapse a lung. You want your shoulder harness to stop with your collar bone, not a hand gun on the ribs.
 
WindOnHisNose said:
I am a fan of Glock hand guns, have several, but none of a caliber >40 caliber S&W. Tuck Barrett insisted I get a 44 magnum several years ago when he and I flew in the mountains near Great Falls and over the Bob Marshall Wilderness areas, exploring the many terrific airstrips in which we could land our CT210s. I bought a S&W 629 Mountain Gun, 44 magnum. While I like the revolver, I would be interested in a semi-automatic.

This was brought to mind as I watched the post made by Stewart Barnes in which one of Paul Klaus pilots was carrying his hand gun in a chest harness.

I would be interested in hearing your opinions on what hand gun would fit this purpose, and what caliber.

Thanks.

Randy
Click to expand...
You're gonna need that Snickers bar.
 
One thing about "bear protection":

If you think think you must have it, it must be on your person to be useful. I am thinking one might be bushwacking to get to THE fishing spot in bear country. Or hunting, in which case one should arm for the highest level predator, not just for the quarry.

As far as crashing an airplane and then immediately needing bear protection: that scenario may be realistic if you crash at the base of Brooks Falls in Katmai��. And the threat then would be telephoto-lens-weilding tourists whose bear photo you messed up!

My point is to have it on your person after hopefully-safely exiting the aircraft. Maybe that means the gun is in your seatback pocket, not on your chest or in the aft baggage. I dunno.
 
Since Randy asked about semi auto handguns in "bear" calibers, has anyone shot the LAR Grizz and LIKED it?

That thing humbled me.
 
I think it’s like everything else we do in life. There is no perfect solution, everything is a compromise. If you knew when, where and how you were going to crash you’d be able to plan for that scenario- or maybe even avoid it. For every well thought out argument someone (probably lots of someone’s) will be able to shoot (pun intended) your idea out of the water.. such is life.... Do what you think is best after all of the input and move on! Most every F&G guy I flew in AK had a 12 gauge with slugs and 00.....
 
One thing us greyback grizzes may have to eventually deal with is glasses.....some like me wear tri-focals or used to have varilux progressive style lenses. Focusing or combining two objects and depths, one a predator and one a handgun, is a challenge in a quickly unfolding event. Loose the glasses or get them obscured and it only gets worse.

I now mostly carry a 1953 .30-30 with open peep sights but was once issued and liked a 12ga shotgun. If I'm busy using both hands the Glock rides along but as folks note it takes practice and good vision for me to consistently hit the mark.

Laugh> I keep a short single shot shotgun in my woods outhouse. Others do as well. Had a black bear come walking by around 6am one morning and nothing but TP to defend myself. Did close the bug door and he walked on by. Soon got to my rifle and that was that.

Gary
 
This whole conversation is mute until we get the go ahead from Julie. I’ll have Linda call her and ask how Randy’s gun shopping is going. [emoji41]


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I've never leveled a gun on a bear and felt over-gunned but a couple of times I've felt under-gunned. One of those times involved a medium sized black bear at close range while carrying a Glock in 40 S&W. Once the clip was emptied and the bear was wounded and wandering away I killed it with a 12 ga. My pirep that my semi-autos aren't bear guns is accurate. Given a choice I prefer a 45-70 guide gun but given the convenience I usually take a pistol. Mine's big because I've watched a smaller one not do the job. Live and learn.
 
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No mention of bullet yet. My opinion is choice of bullet is as important as caliber. Make sure you have a hard bear round, not a soft human round. A soft hollow point designed to stop a human, will not penetrate deep enough into a bear. A hard cast flat meplat bullet will do wonders in most calibers. At least a cheap fmj practice round is better than hollow point fast expanding. I would rather have a 9mm with hard cast than a .44 with softs.

I handload, but Buffalo Bore makes hardcast in most calibers, or the like. A pic of .45acp+p hardcast pasted.

Handguns are not accurate. Worse on a far target that’s moving. Hit what your shooting at. Have glow dot sights for low light back to camp. It matters. In the dark your scoped gun is almost worthless.

Use a shootable, accurate, Speedily deployable handgun that performs without thinking <read safties(1911)>, because your mental RAM with be overloaded with an unexpected bear charge!

Best advice I ever got is handguns are what you use till you make your way to the real guns.

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Counter Assault, 10.2 oz. size, 9 seconds worth; https://www.counterassault.com/bear-spray/ effective, easy to get across the border; you can and should learn how to shoot from the hip/holster; and maybe best of all it doesn't mistakenly kill your buddy who is being mauled and you 'miss' in all the excitement; and everyone gets to go home alive.
 
mam90 said:
I think it’s like everything else we do in life. There is no perfect solution, everything is a compromise. If you knew when, where and how you were going to crash you’d be able to plan for that scenario- or maybe even avoid it. For every well thought out argument someone (probably lots of someone’s) will be able to shoot (pun intended) your idea out of the water.. such is life.... Do what you think is best after all of the input and move on! Most every F&G guy I flew in AK had a 12 gauge with slugs and 00.....
Click to expand...

Mark I have a folding stock 870 and magazine extender 12 gage I probably bought when you were flying here in 70s. Good choice, I’ve killed bears with it. However, since I fish a lot I was getting bear encounters when I left it around bend or simply on bank and I’m wading 50 feet out and bear between me an shotgun. So I started packing the .480 high on my chest so I can move and cast easily and yet have fast access if I look at my back cast and see oh $hit its yogi. Like you said everyone has their own needs based on their activities and location. I used to carry my 10mm Glock until I was standing ready against false charging Alaska Peninsula Brown bears and that pea shooter not giving me any warm fuzzy I got this feeling. BTW that .480 is a mother to shoot so I only practice with full Buffalo Bore 410grns to make sure my shooting is OK with big hot loads. YMMV


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I hear ya, I actually have been looking for a hand cannon just for that reason. I’ve found myself several paces away from the shotgun a time or two.... Looked up the .480 after I read your post and it looks interesting. A lot of talk about scarcity of ammo based on the low number of guns sold? We’ll talk when I come up next summer.
 
Then there's the how did they do that factor...I shot a large male black bear facing sideways from my deck down 8' at a 45* angle with one of these hard cast hot handloads from a Marlin .45-70: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570tech.html

Good shot through soft forward vitals but a narrow wound channel and no doubt the bullet kept going and buried itself down to the groundwater table. He ran 50' uphill then turned and ran another 100' down at least and expired with a spooky whine like they can do. He never flattened or jumped...just ran while dead and didn't know it.

The heart wasn't and there was lots of hemorrhaging but it wasn't a typical shock wound channel high velocity and bullet upset can cause.

So I think for that use I'd want a bullet that used itself up mostly in the animal but still could break any bones it met.

Gary
 
Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker near King Salmon used a Smith and Wesson 9MM auto to stop a Brown Bear charge while using quality Buffalo Bore ammo and bullet. It is not the caliber but the bullet and the placement of the shot. Bear was shot at under 10 yards as Phil Shoemaker protected clients on a fishing trip.
He shoots a gun that many would consider this as being under gunned, it is the placement of the shot not the BIGGNESS of the caliber that stops an intruder. GUT SHOT is GUT SHOT and I don't care who you are you need to place your bullet to stop the intruder.

Personally I would rather shoot a 357 mag with hard cast or quality bullet than a big hand cannon.

As he says "Never underestimate the ability of the 30-06 caliber rifle" or a paraphrase to this.

Doug
 
Glock 9mm for all around
S&W 460 ( shoots .460, 454 Casull and .45 long colt for fun )
Bruins- I shoot a .308 carbine, Alaska probably a 12 gauge shotgun
 
MT12 said:
Counter Assault, 10.2 oz. size, 9 seconds worth; https://www.counterassault.com/bear-spray/ effective, easy to get across the border; you can and should learn how to shoot from the hip/holster; and maybe best of all it doesn't mistakenly kill your buddy who is being mauled and you 'miss' in all the excitement; and everyone gets to go home alive.
Click to expand...

I’m curious how you make sure bears are downwind of you at all times? And I suspect the downwind ones we don’t see cause they knew we were coming before we knew they were there and scrammed.

My first bear revolver was a 460 S&W. In gel videos I’ve seen it out penetrates the 500. But like the 500 it is big. I downsized to the Ruger Alaskan 454, good weight and six rounds instead of five.

I also have a Glock 10mm. Fine weapon. Carry it when I want something lighter and as my PP gun. But you have to know how to shoot it. If you allow it to recoil up and back instead of just back a spent shell casing will occasionally jam because it’s ejecting on the same trajectory as the Glock.


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I wondered if bear spray would get mentioned. I’m glad it did. I’ve carried bear spray while fishing on my shoulder tackle bag. It has some advantages I like; it is light weight and easy to carry, it doesn’t matter if it gets wet while wading, if the time comes to use it your aim doesn’t have to be very accurate. Bear spray doesn’t kill the bear. It also doesn’t cost much at around $35 locally.

There are some disadvantages though; wind probably being the biggest. Transportation issues too in a plane. A belly pod is probably best. The airlines won’t take it at all. Doesn’t kill the bear. (I know, I listed this as an advantage too).

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Last week I was on Kodiak deer hunting. Here are some permanent tracks that generations of bears have made. Big bears and little bears.

We slept on a boat and this same discussion came up. The two guys running the boat said they’d tested every kind of spray they could find off of the back of the boat and they said every one dispersed so much that it would be ineffective beyond 15 feet. And that’s if the wind is not against you.

It it caused me to rethink my reliance on bear spray alone. I like these discussions. Maybe I’ll go back to a handgun.
 

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