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Thread: Wing recover

  1. #41
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flylowslow View Post
    I'm getting close to placing my wing order from Javron and Jay is admandtley against the wing leading edge extension but I'm getting mixed reviews. Have you guys who have done it totally happy with it? Worth the weight?
    Blue Skies,
    Denny
    I add it to every one I do

  2. #42
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flylowslow View Post
    I'm getting close to placing my wing order from Javron and Jay is admandtley against the wing leading edge extension but I'm getting mixed reviews. Have you guys who have done it totally happy with it? Worth the weight?
    Blue Skies,
    Denny
    My Backcountry wings have the extended leading edges. The Cub has lots of other little changes so I can't say exactly what this mod did other than to say the fabric stays flat on top with no scallops and the plane is a super performer at all ends of the flight envelope without VGs. It also has the extra long 110" flaps.

    I also glued a thin layer of felt to the LE skin to smooth out the bumps of the fastener screws. Can't say whether that did anything other than it sure looks good. It took a lot of Stuarts glue to do the job so there may just be extra weight with no functional performance improvement.
    N1PA
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  3. #43

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    Extended leading edge will make for a stiffer wing. The big question is how much twist do you want to put into the wing as you build it?? One way to figure this is to build the wing and put it on the fuselage before you do the extended leading edge. Rig the entire plane/wing as you want. This will correct for any fuselage issues. Now you how much twist to put into the wing, take it off and add the leading edge with the twist set on sawhorses. Lots of cubs flying with .5 degree vs stock 2 degree of twist and doing fine. Just some points to make more work for you and things to think about.
    DENNY
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  4. #44
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Lots of cubs flying with .5 degree vs stock 2 degree of twist and doing fine.
    This is fine, but deserves a little discussion for those who may not know why the twist is in the wing in the first place. Twist (wash out, leading edge down) is done in order to ensure the wing root stalls before the tip. Why? To ensure that there is aileron control into the stall regime. This is more important on airplanes which do NOT have differential aileron control (More up travel than down travel). Guess what, the CUB does not have differential aileron control. As a result the outboard section of the wing can stall before the root especially if the aileron is deflected down. Thus it is very important in a Cub to use plenty of rudder to assist the aileron when a wing drops during stalls. I do not know why some may choose to use .5 degree of wash out rather than Piper's 2 degrees. Me, I'll use the 2 degrees.

    There was extensive discussion here a few months back about a fellow who stalled and crashed his Cub with no visible rudder input correction in an attempt to keep the wings level. Thus the stalled wing hit the ground first.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 09-17-2017 at 05:16 AM.
    N1PA
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  5. #45

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    The only two reasons I can think of for taking twist out is to correct for fuselage issues or to make it fly slower, The main point I was getting at is if you want to run it at .5 degrees don't build in 2 degrees. It is a pain to hang it on the fuselage just to check everything but it can save time in the long run.
    DENNY

  6. #46
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I get your point DENNY, I just wanted to make sure that some who might not, don't get in trouble.
    N1PA
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  7. #47
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Remember that the more twist you have the less lift (AOA)you have

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  8. #48

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    Please elaborate on that issue.

    George

  9. #49
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    I think what he meant was that the more twist (washout) is in the wings, the less angle of incidence the wingtips have. The wing root will maintain the AoI set at the wing attach.

    Angle of Attack is the angle of the wing's chord line to the relative wind, and is a primary factor (along with airspeed) in generating lift. Angle of Incidence is the angle of the wing in relation to the fuselage.

    Need more AoA? Pull back on the stick. Need more AoI? Break out the welder.
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    normally??

    or what I do?
    1. all steel parts removed sent for blasting, inspection, powder coating
    2. all hardware removed is replaced
    3. wing measured & trammed
    4. ribs replaced as needed
    5. hanger blocks replaced or repaired as needed
    6. new leading edge from Univair blanks since it's already removed(and is less time/$$ then cleaning and bondoing old junk..
    7. maybe replace trailing edge if bad shape...
    8. maybe prime leading and trailing edge to help prevent corrosion..
    9. hang and align flaps and ailerons with wing in proper twisted position
    10. replace tip wood bow
    11. replace lighting wires
    12. add Atlee Hurricane tie downs if not already installed
    13. extend top leading edge back 14"~ if wanted..


    thats the pre fabric 2 minute thoughts...
    Kind of late to the party: 1)To Mike's list I would add Atlee's spar/strut attach fitting reinforcement and leave off the stock tie down ring and 2) I probably would not add the extended leading edge. Watch the trailing edge, of the extended edges, when sweeping the wings of snow. The edges between the ribs can dent and show through the fabric as the fabric will be attached through the covering process.
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  11. #51

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    Skywagon
    I always appreciate your input, and would advise others to do also. Some of my posts are short and don't cover all the aspects of a issue. Your input along with several other members are what make this forum valuable!! We just all need to get in the same place with a six pack, case, or keg of beer and have a good hanger flying week!! I have a open room if you want to visit AK!!
    DENNY
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  12. #52
    jimboflying's Avatar
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    I am ready to apply covering to the wings of my experimental PA12 not originally built by me. Is it necessary to have them inspected prior to recovering with new fabric after repairs were made as necessary?

  13. #53
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimboflying View Post
    I am ready to apply covering to the wings of my experimental PA12 not originally built by me. Is it necessary to have them inspected prior to recovering with new fabric after repairs were made as necessary?
    can't hurt... I don't mind someone looking over my work, even though I think It's perfect... maybe they will find a brain fart...

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimboflying View Post
    I am ready to apply covering to the wings of my experimental PA12 not originally built by me. Is it necessary to have them inspected prior to recovering with new fabric after repairs were made as necessary?
    Deffinately worth the effort, things can easily get missed or not properly located, think of it as a peer review.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 09-21-2017 at 06:31 AM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  15. #55
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Since you did not build it you will need an A&P to do your condition inspections. Whoever that may be should be brought into the loop sooner rather than later.
    N1PA
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  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This is fine, but deserves a little discussion for those who may not know why the twist is in the wing in the first place. Twist (wash out, leading edge down) is done in order to ensure the wing root stalls before the tip. Why? To ensure that there is aileron control into the stall regime. This is more important on airplanes which do NOT have differential aileron control (More up travel than down travel). Guess what, the CUB does not have differential aileron control. As a result the outboard section of the wing can stall before the root especially if the aileron is deflected down. Thus it is very important in a Cub to use plenty of rudder to assist the aileron when a wing drops during stalls. I do not know why some may choose to use .5 degree of wash out rather than Piper's 2 degrees. Me, I'll use the 2 degrees.

    There was extensive discussion here a few months back about a fellow who stalled and crashed his Cub with no visible rudder input correction in an attempt to keep the wings level. Thus the stalled wing hit the ground first.
    Think aileron reversal at low speed. This was a characteristic of my Howard and the first time it happened it scared the **** out of me! Crosswind landing in the flare, ailerons displaced for the crosswind and the wing with the down aileron (the one you want to go up) stalls and that wing drops suddenly. That's the reason for wash out.


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  17. #57
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Think aileron reversal at low speed. This was a characteristic of my Howard and the first time it happened it scared the **** out of me! Crosswind landing in the flare, ailerons displaced for the crosswind and the wing with the down aileron (the one you want to go up) stalls and that wing drops suddenly. That's the reason for wash out.
    Good example, Thank you. That would be scary.
    N1PA
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