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Thread: Performance STOL Double Slotted Flap system now STC'd for the PA-18

  1. #241
    jimboflying's Avatar
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    I added a simple external retract spring which helped a lot.
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  2. #242
    lvgbr's Avatar
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    New Video!
    Garmin Virb 360
    Slow Flight with flaps 1 and Full Flaps.
    Move the cam to see gps speed and flaps in flight
    Tks for support

    https://youtu.be/RaAmELnws8k

    PA18 in Argentina, SA
    Stol performance Flaps
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  3. #243
    hottshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Re: comparing flaps of the same length?

    My impression of the much longer Husky flaps was that they were not nearly as good as a stock set of Super Cub flaps adjusted to the max allowable extension. My guess would be that the more effective Cub flaps would be even better if Husky length. I think my opinion is worthy.

    Next question: has anyone installed these STC flaps on a Dakota slotted wing?


    Yes, skip the slots and just do the Flaps
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  4. #244
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hottshot View Post
    Yes, skip the slots and just do the Flaps
    Bob,
    Not sure where that theory that Cub flaps were superior to much larger Husky flaps originated ....... Might want to rethink that one.
    In the original Piper test pilots report of the then new "125" Super Cub he commented Super Cub was a perfect balance of wing and power, but felt the new flaps were NOT as effective as he had expected.........
    If you were to hook Husky flaps onto a Super Cub, they would be a VAST improvement over standard Cub flaps,
    Possibly even more than the 90" Sullivan flaps...... If you dig cub flaps and feel they are great, that is fine.
    But folks have been modifying now for 60 years to make them work ALOT better............. These new Performance flaps may turn out to be the best mod ever offered since Roger Borer offered us his prop.

    Sent from my LM-X210 using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  5. #245
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Bob,

    No offense intended, but if that's your honest opinion, you need to get some instruction in a Husky.

    MTV
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  6. #246
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Funny that this comes up. I shipped Doug Keller a set of Husky flaps and all the associated hardware from a wrecked border patrol Husky I had years ago. He built a Super Cub wing with Husky flaps. Must have seen an improvement with these slotted flaps since he took them all the way though certification.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  7. #247
    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Funny that this comes up. I shipped Doug Keller a set of Husky flaps and all the associated hardware from a wrecked border patrol Husky I had years ago. He built a Super Cub wing with Husky flaps. Must have seen an improvement with these slotted flaps since he took them all the way though certification.
    That was one heck of a performing Super Cub with the big wing and Husky flaps as seen in Big Rocks & Long Props Vol. 2
    Thanks Steve Pierce thanked for this post

  8. #248
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Funny that this comes up. I shipped Doug Keller a set of Husky flaps and all the associated hardware from a wrecked border patrol Husky I had years ago. He built a Super Cub wing with Husky flaps. Must have seen an improvement with these slotted flaps since he took them all the way though certification.
    Steve, It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to modify a -18 wing for the double slotted flaps than it would be with the long Husky flaps which would require aileron modifications as well. I like the long 110" flaps on my E-AB Cub.
    N1PA

  9. #249
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Maybe Doug will elaborate on the pros and cons of each.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  10. #250
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Steve, It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to modify a -18 wing for the double slotted flaps than it would be with the long Husky flaps which would require aileron modifications as well. I like the long 110" flaps on my E-AB Cub.
    I've converted a pa-12 s to long flaps on covered wings, little of a pain, but doable... he already had squared off wing....

  11. #251
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    I've converted a pa-12 s to long flaps on covered wings, little of a pain, but doable... he already had squared off wing....
    That's my point, from the perspective of the person developing and earning the STC he wants the end result to be as easy as possible to accomplish so that he can maximize his potential customer base. Keeping the installation labor down is a big plus.
    N1PA

  12. #252

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    Any chance these will get approved for Pacers someday?

  13. #253
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskadrifter View Post
    Any chance these will get approved for Pacers someday?
    Contact Airframes and ask. That aircraft would be an excellent candidate. They would need a test mule and some incentive for profit. If I had a PA-20/22 I'd pursue that mod.

    https://www.airframesalaska.com/Perf...STOL_a/268.htm

    Gary
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  14. #254

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    Does anyone know what the difference in weight is between the 2, 3 and 4 hanger setups? Only number I can find is that a 2 hanger certified setup is about 12lbs more than stock flaps, but nowhere have I seen a listed weight of each setup.

    Cheers,
    Jeff

  15. #255

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    I’m speaking out of turn but I’d assume you can get close enough by figuring the weight percentages on the 2 hangar flap then doing the math on the added length. Guessing it would be within one or two lbs unless there are significant reinforcements on the longer flaps?
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  16. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimboflying View Post
    I added a simple external retract spring which helped a lot.
    I assume one end of the spring is attached to the attachment bolt in the flap, the other end appears to be attached to a fitting of some kind with a bolt holding it to the forward hanger. Did you drill a hole there to mount this. I have been trying to do the same thing, but hesitated to drill a hole in the flap hanger.
    Thanks

  17. #257
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgskillskill View Post
    Does anyone know what the difference in weight is between the 2, 3 and 4 hanger setups? Only number I can find is that a 2 hanger certified setup is about 12lbs more than stock flaps, but nowhere have I seen a listed weight of each setup.

    Cheers,
    Jeff
    Probably not as much as we would think for the length. The experimental version has a different doubler for inside the flap hanger and does not use the thick doublers on the false spar at the hangers. I will have to look in my notes at those weights.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  18. #258
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Cathy has been flying my Super Cub getting ready to take it to the Ladies Love Taildraggers Fly-In next weekend with two other local women in their Super Cub and PA12. She can not pul the 4th notch but slows her down fine to make some nice landing. I never noticed a difference in the amount of force taken to pull the flaps full on with my alreadty shortened flap handle with a 4 notch pawl.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  19. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by planenuts View Post
    I assume one end of the spring is attached to the attachment bolt in the flap, the other end appears to be attached to a fitting of some kind with a bolt holding it to the forward hanger. Did you drill a hole there to mount this. I have been trying to do the same thing, but hesitated to drill a hole in the flap hanger.
    Thanks
    I answered my own question, the picture of the external spring is going from the hole in the front hanger to the lower part of the split flap, not the first section.
    Thanks

  20. #260
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgskillskill View Post
    Does anyone know what the difference in weight is between the 2, 3 and 4 hanger setups? Only number I can find is that a 2 hanger certified setup is about 12lbs more than stock flaps, but nowhere have I seen a listed weight of each setup.

    Cheers,
    Jeff
    Totaled installed weight of a set of certified Performance STOL Flaps is 25.0 lbs.
    Total weight removed, old flaps and associated parts is 13.2 lbs.
    Inboard false spar doublers used on certified flaps but not experimentals are 9.8 oz per pair
    Outboard false spar doublers used on certified flaps but not experimentals are 15.4 oz per pair
    Cherry rivets used on all four false spar doublers weigh 4.5 oz.
    Total weight of 3 hanger 90" flaps for a Dakota Cub slotted wing is 27 lbs for both flaps and hardware.

    One side flap and hardware.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Certified flaps have a straight flap hanger doubler where this one has a relief cut out of the forward end.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  21. #261
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    These are what the certified flap hanger stiffeners look like. I keep them in the freezer until I install them. It is a real tight fit and have had no issues installing them after I started sticking them in the freezer to shrink them a bit.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  22. #262
    Jonnyo's Avatar
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    Steve,

    Thanks for the 2 great posts above. REAL DATA !!! and sound installation tips.

    I use liquid nitrogen ( -320 ) to install bearings, plugs and etc. without having to pound or press them. It was only a couple hundred bucks to get a special 3 liter thermos that the local compressed gas company would fill for me. Like so many tools, that might initially seem over the top; once you have them, you can't imagine doing the job without it.
    Thanks 46 Cub, Steve Pierce thanked for this post
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  23. #263
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Dry ice in alcohol is much cheaper and gets down to around -80 deg C. Works well.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  24. #264

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    Awesome Steve, thanks for the real numbers!

  25. #265
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I weighed every part going on and coming off on the certified version. They were dead on when the said the the certified version adds 12 lbs. I even weighed the Cherry Max stems and washers after I pulled all the rivets. Silly I know but some people like to drink, I like to weigh Super Cub parts.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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