• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

PA-12 or PA-18 landing gear?

O

Onesick784

SPONSOR
I'm sure this has been discussed at length before but for the life of me I'm not finding much... I bought a wag aero 2+2 project that was set up for bungees concealed in the belly style gear. I'm guessing the intent was to keep it more original along the pa-14. I know that the super cub gear is much more robust, but for the type of flying I plan to do I'm not sure if it's needed. Can someone explain more about each system and their merits so I can make a more informed decision on which way to proceed?
 
There is nothing wrong with a PA-12/14 gear. If you are doing regular flying, stick with the gear. If you are landing on rock beds or on floats, go with the PA-18 gear.
 
I converted to -18 gear on my -12. If I had it to do over I think I would stick with the -12 gear because there is a lot less "stuff" hanging out in the breeze causing drag. The Alaska Bushwheels STC requires "Heavy Duty" gear though, so that could be an issue depending on what your IA considers to be heavy duty, and whether you want those tires.
 
Gordon, are you running bungee bags or airfoil covers? I ditched my bags in favor of covers and picked up 1 or 2 mph. I'm seriously thinking of covering my gear legs with Monocoat modeling film to see what the gain is, and then decide if I want to do a bona fide covering job. Or maybe aluminum skins like I see some of the members here doing.
As far as the gear type, I wouldn't want to put the bungees back inside, nor would I want to give up my -18 seat, which required removal of the original bungee truss.
 
I made airfoil bungee covers and picked up a couple mi/hr more than with the bags, 2 or 3? PUHLEEZE do that gear covering experiment - been waiting on your data for a couple years now! :) I tried wrapping my gear with Saran Wrap to see if that would work for experimenting, but it wouldn't hold in place. I think your idea is pretty smart though. Will Monocoat tighten up enough to not flutter in the wind? I'd bet there's another 3 mi/hr or so to be had?? At my speed that matters - haha.
 
cruise speed suffers with 18 gear. Lots more out in the wind.

As said above, for normal flying, even what happens at Johnson Creek, (well- most of what happens) standard 12 gear should be just fine. If I recall you can get gear legs with axle brace for HD gear if you want bushwheels.

Changing floats/wheels, and changing bungees is more difficult.

So what is your plan for flying?
 
Yeah I know, I've been waiting 2 or 3 years for my data too ! I THINK modeling film would hold up long enough to get a cruise speed number. It shrinks a lot, tension shouldn't be an issue.
 
Gordon Misch said:
I made airfoil bungee covers and picked up a couple mi/hr more than with the bags, 2 or 3? PUHLEEZE do that gear covering experiment - been waiting on your data for a couple years now! :) I tried wrapping my gear with Saran Wrap to see if that would work for experimenting, but it wouldn't hold in place. I think your idea is pretty smart though. Will Monocoat tighten up enough to not flutter in the wind? I'd bet there's another 3 mi/hr or so to be had?? At my speed that matters - haha.
Click to expand...

Cardboard and duct tape!

Been using it to test speed fairings on my race sleds, holds up well for testing, easy to remove.
 
Onesick784 said:
Gordon, How much did it actually slow you down? And is that why you regret doing the conversion ?
Click to expand...

I don't really know because I did a bunch of other things at rebuild also. I'll guess maybe about 5 mi/hr. And yes, that's why. On the other hand removing the interior bungee truss loses a little bit of weight. And I like having the hydrosorbs - they eliminate a couple of the bounces from my typical landings :oops:
 
Gordon Misch said:
I made airfoil bungee covers and picked up a couple mi/hr more than with the bags, 2 or 3? PUHLEEZE do that gear covering experiment - been waiting on your data for a couple years now! :) I tried wrapping my gear with Saran Wrap to see if that would work for experimenting, but it wouldn't hold in place. I think your idea is pretty smart though. Will Monocoat tighten up enough to not flutter in the wind? I'd bet there's another 3 mi/hr or so to be had?? At my speed that matters - haha.
Click to expand...

PerryB said:
Yeah I know, I've been waiting 2 or 3 years for my data too ! I THINK modeling film would hold up long enough to get a cruise speed number. It shrinks a lot, tension shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...
When you two do this project place an aerodynamic V shape behind the aft gear tube. This will reduce the drag behind a large diameter round tube. Balsa wood or even cardboard should work.
I've wondered if a V shape behind each gear tube would have a similar effect as covering the entire gear? Some consideration should be given the the mixture of tubes and brake cylinders at the inboard side of the tires.
 
Perry B Try the shrink wrap from a boat yard usually they have scraps left over get a length of tape shrink with heat gun should work fine color may not match plane though.
 
skywagon8a said:
When you two do this project place an aerodynamic V shape behind the aft gear tube. This will reduce the drag behind a large diameter round tube. Balsa wood or even cardboard should work.
I've wondered if a V shape behind each gear tube would have a similar effect as covering the entire gear? Some consideration should be given the the mixture of tubes and brake cylinders at the inboard side of the tires.
Click to expand...

I've had exactly the same thoughts.
 
Douten said:
Perry B Try the shrink wrap from a boat yard usually they have scraps left over get a length of tape shrink with heat gun should work fine color may not match plane though.
Click to expand...
Once again, I've had the same idea. If I could get it in white and it held up, it might just stay there! It'd be nice because if you bugger it up, repairs would be simple. Just redo it.
 
There are woven fabric scale model heat shrink coverings such as Coverite and Oratex. But putting V fairings on each tube appeals to me. If you cover the whole thing the prop induced spiral airflow is not aligned with the slab.
 
Gordon and Perry,
For a simple answer to this question get some stiff poster paper or cardboard formed into a V. Duct tape it to the gear legs and tape some yarn to the trailing edges. Go fly and watch the yarn. What is it doing? Better yet do the yarn test first for a base line of knowledge. Vary the leg length of the Vs. Change the alignment of the Vs to the gear tubes. Due to the prop wash the flow may be different between the left and right gear legs. You may find that covering across the two gear legs just adjacent to the lower cluster axle area has the highest drag reduction. This area is very dirty aerodynamically.

If the yarn is flapping all over the place, streamlining is called for. If it is relatively straight but at an angle to the path of flight, place the Vs at an angle to get the flow where you want it.

You may find that a curved covering on the outboard side of the V and flat on the inboard side with a V at the trailing edge will provide some lift not apparent when flat covering as Piper did it.
 
I flew a -14 with stock -14 gear and had no problems or complaints. I had 8.50's x 6.00 tires and did not try to take the airplane anywhere too aggressive. I was tempted to go to -18 gear, but ultimately decided that a -14 should be a -14 not an imitation -18. Also, it was cheaper to stick with what I had.
 
12's at Twin Pine last weekend:

8b9b4a1393b4fed0a3ec602b.jpg


e70e9a2ada076f273f5493a7.jpg


2060e2f3b8b033e96b4a2f68.jpg


and an Arctic Tern for kicks...

04987c4130d967606eb6e37a.jpg
 
skywagon8a said:
Gordon and Perry,
For a simple answer to this question get some stiff poster paper or cardboard formed into a V. Duct tape it to the gear legs and tape some yarn to the trailing edges. Go fly and watch the yarn. What is it doing? Better yet do the yarn test first for a base line of knowledge. Vary the leg length of the Vs. Change the alignment of the Vs to the gear tubes. Due to the prop wash the flow may be different between the left and right gear legs. You may find that covering across the two gear legs just adjacent to the lower cluster axle area has the highest drag reduction. This area is very dirty aerodynamically.

If the yarn is flapping all over the place, streamlining is called for. If it is relatively straight but at an angle to the path of flight, place the Vs at an angle to get the flow where you want it.

You may find that a curved covering on the outboard side of the V and flat on the inboard side with a V at the trailing edge will provide some lift not apparent when flat covering as Piper did it.
Click to expand...
Good ideas; Thanks!
 
I think the pod says Alaska bush pod on it. We bought it last month. The previous owner is a member here but not sure if he posts. I will check Friday when we put the new tail springs on.

I still have a month or so on my rehab before I can start flying instead of riding.

Jake


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

behindpropellers
PA-12 to PA-18 Gear on a PA-12
Replies
4
Views
2K
behindpropellers
behindpropellers
R
?cost to install PA-18 gear, feathers on PA-12
Replies
2
Views
2K
irishfield
irishfield
Charlie Longley
PA-18 gear on a PA-12
Replies
16
Views
7K
Gordon Misch
Gordon Misch
eslboat
PA-12 landing gear
Replies
12
Views
4K
andersenroger
A
Tyrone8
Pa-18 landing gear drag??
Replies
21
Views
8K
N5126H
N5126H
Back
Top