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Thread: Citabria GCBC 115HP?

  1. #1
    charlie1234's Avatar
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    Citabria GCBC 115HP?

    Im looking at a gcbc citabria with a lycoming 0235, i thought was weird, never heard of a gcbc model with 115hp, i thought thought they have an 0320? Any thoughts on this?

    Thanks


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  2. #2
    PerryB's Avatar
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    News to me too. Years ago there were 125 hp versions, which I assume had the O-290, but I've never heard of a GCBC with a 235.
    Last edited by PerryB; 03-03-2017 at 12:06 AM.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

  3. #3
    charlie1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    News to me too. There were 125 hp versions, which I assume had the O-290.
    Yea its funny, i looked at the Ad and was like "hell thats not a bad deal" so i phoned the fella and said it had the 115hp engine. Other than that its all gcbc, the longer wings, flaps, bigger fuel tanks etc


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  4. #4
    Scouter's Avatar
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    What year is it?

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Several versions of the 0-235 are approved on the type certificate A-759 for the 7GCBC.
    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/2b3fa1c355e95f9a862578380053d423/$FILE/A-759%20Rev%2073.pdf
    N1PA

  6. #6
    charlie1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    What year is it?
    Its a 69


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    12Geezer2's Avatar
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    As a student pilot MANY years ago I put a lot of hours on a 115 Hp. GCBC---believe it was a '66 model with oleo gear--really fun airplane--- HOWEVER---I'd already been COMPLETELY spoiled with a 1952 PA-18 150

  8. #8
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    We had one flyin into our DeRonda flyin years ago with oleo gear. We had about 80 planes on the field and 3 or 4 guys there had 65hp Champs parked. All of them were excited looking at this hotrod Champ with 115 hp. When it came time to go home " every " 65 hp Champ beat the 115 hp Champ off the ground by a couply hundred feet or more.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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    12Geezer2's Avatar
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    Glenn: Just for fun---compare EMPTY weights
    Last edited by 12Geezer2; 03-03-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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  10. #10
    12Geezer2's Avatar
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    This post brings up some interesting memories---WAY BACK as a student I rented the GCBC for ten bucks an hour --wet--- After getting my ticket I tried to buy the airplane, since PA-18s have always been just "out of reach" The owner did finally offer to sell but someone beat me to it ($8500) and wasn't long --new owner wrecked it. Then one day here on dot org I was looking at some really nice photos of a float plane gathering in the northeast. I thought I remembered the "N" number and sure enough, the GCBC had been rebuilt and was on floats. Now owned by a lady in Florida. Good to see it still being enjoyed.---geezer Dan

  11. #11
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12Geezer2 View Post
    Glenn: Just for fun---compare EMPTY weights
    Like every airplane that you want to perform that is very important.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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    According to the Bellanca Owner's Manual that I have for the very early Citabrias, the 7GCBC was available with either the Lycoming O-235-C1 (115 HP), or the O-320-A2B (150 HP). I strongly suspect that the vast majority went out the door with the 150 HP engine... The only significant difference between the 7ECA (115 HP) and the 7GCBC (115 HP) were the "flapped wings" on the 7GCBC, which gave it a lower stall speed and reduced takeoff / landing distances. The book says that the O-235 version was about 73 lbs lighter, climbed a little slower (728 fpm v.s. 1145 fpm), and that sea-level takeoff over a 50' obstacle were somewhat longer as well (860 ft v.s. 525 ft). Those performance numbers seem a bit "optimistic" to me.

    As for relative performance versus the Champ... As I understand it, the changes to the structure to allow aerobatic certification of the Citabrias raised the empty weight over the Champ fairly substantially, and as someone else mentioned, weight has a big impact on takeoff / climb performance. A look at empty weights of the current ACA Champ and 7ECA shows the 7ECA @ 1120 lbs empty, and the 7EC @ 925 lbs empty. That's almost 200 lbs difference, with both aircraft similarly equipped. The difference was probably a bit bigger with the original wood spars, and when Champs had no electrical systems, and were powered by smaller, lighter engines. Cubs and Champs are great illustrations of the "simplify and add lightness" performance formula!
    Jim Parker
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    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  13. #13
    charlie1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    According to the Bellanca Owner's Manual that I have for the very early Citabrias, the 7GCBC was available with either the Lycoming O-235-C1 (115 HP), or the O-320-A2B (150 HP). I strongly suspect that the vast majority went out the door with the 150 HP engine... The only significant difference between the 7ECA (115 HP) and the 7GCBC (115 HP) were the "flapped wings" on the 7GCBC, which gave it a lower stall speed and reduced takeoff / landing distances. The book says that the O-235 version was about 73 lbs lighter, climbed a little slower (728 fpm v.s. 1145 fpm), and that sea-level takeoff over a 50' obstacle were somewhat longer as well (860 ft v.s. 525 ft). Those performance numbers seem a bit "optimistic" to me.

    As for relative performance versus the Champ... As I understand it, the changes to the structure to allow aerobatic certification of the Citabrias raised the empty weight over the Champ fairly substantially, and as someone else mentioned, weight has a big impact on takeoff / climb performance. A look at empty weights of the current ACA Champ and 7ECA shows the 7ECA @ 1120 lbs empty, and the 7EC @ 925 lbs empty. That's almost 200 lbs difference, with both aircraft similarly equipped. The difference was probably a bit bigger with the original wood spars, and when Champs had no electrical systems, and were powered by smaller, lighter engines. Cubs and Champs are great illustrations of the "simplify and add lightness" performance formula!
    I was thinkin a guy could fly it for couple 3 years, then sell the 0235 and buy a mid timed o320


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    Or, as fuel costs escalate, keep the smaller engine and save $15 per hour?

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    Yep - I'm flying an O-200 powered 7ECA, and typically burning 5.6 gph (block time). Bought the plane to get my tailwheel endorsement and build some tailwheel time. Fun plane, but not heading for the Sierra's in it anytime soon...
    Jim Parker
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    scout88305's Avatar
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    One of our members here sold one a few years back, saw it at Jaransons I believe
    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!

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    The 7AC I owned in the eighties booked at 710, although I think mine was 770. 410 lbs difference in published weight.
    What's a go-around?

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    aktango58's Avatar
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    I believe angle of incidence and airfoil has as much to do with Champ performance as the empty weight.

    My old 90 hp champ would get out almost as good as the 150 cub if I was sloppy with the cub and had a load.

    But again, I fly at high elevation: DA here was -1500 the other day!


    Empt weight is nice, but pilot weight makes some difference. If you all were delicate little wallflowers like me, weighing in at 90 lbs your planes would perform better
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  19. #19

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    Yeah, after taking one look at Bobby Breeden, I realized that there was no way my "portly" body (no one is ever going to accuse me of weighing 90 pounds!) was ever going to allow me to beat him in a STOL competition... Yeah, it's just the body mass that's making the difference, that's what it is... Nothing to do with HIS skills or MY lack thereof... That's my story – and I'm sticking to it...!
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  20. #20
    Scouter's Avatar
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    I watched the guys in Millinocket change a 7eca with 0-235 to a 7gcaa 0-320. It was quite a process. Not sure if they changed fuel tanks, but the whole rest of the fuel lines and shutoff were changed. Smaller lines feeding the 0-235. Jeff or Reid at KMLT will fill you in. It wasnt a simple plug and play

    I would think the extra empty wt on the gcbc would be a real pig with 115 hp. Thats like the 7eca with the 0-200 cont. Pretty feeble. 7eca with the 0235 is a nice plane, with the right prop a decent ski plane kept light

    jim

  21. #21
    WWhunter's Avatar
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    I owned a 7AC-CONV Champ, flown mostly on floats, that had an O-235 installed via the Buzz Wagner conversion. Granted, it was not a GCBC model, so it did not have flaps. I twas a decent performer and I always wished it had flaps but once I really learned to fly it, it was a good plane that I regret selling. Reliable as heck, easy on fuel, and a good stable plane. If I remember correctly the EW was 891 lbs. This plane did not have a generator or alternator but did have a battery and starter. Nearly every mod you could think of added some weight but I am not sure you could get under 900 lbs with one that had flaps.
    Its not going to be a rocket ship, but as Aktango58 mentioned, they can operate out of a decent area. Champs are good honest flyers and can do more than a lot of people give them credit for......and I am saying this on a Supercub site!

  22. #22
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    My dad was a hardcore Champion guy. He had two early serial # Citabrias in his pipeline patrol fleet. One was an O-200 and the other O-235. In '65 Cessna made him a deal on custom built C-150 pipeline patrollers, he bought two. My mom was the bean counter and she wanted to only have one engine type to maintain, so the lyc 7ECA was sold. My dad preferred the con't 7ECA anyway. They are lighter than a lyc powered one. Later on we got another later model Bellanca 7ECA and that is where I spent hours and hours of my time, ground level to 300 ft. Yup, the're no 180 hp cub but they fit their mission when flown within reason.

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    I kind of agree. But there is a reason that an "equivalent"Cub brings twice the price. My neighbor bought a 115 Citabria for $26k and learned to fly. It was excellent for what he wanted - semi- fast, and inexpensive.

  24. #24
    jon s. blocker's Avatar
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    Back in the mid 80s, I owned a GCBC. N8304V, '69 model, serial #44, 0320 with no electric, oleo strut gear, flaps. Fun to fly, but a little heavy on the controls as I remember. Bought and sold for $7,500. Jon

  25. #25
    PerryB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post

    But again, I fly at high elevation: DA here was -1500 the other day!
    George, what is your MSL? I'm at 135'. Not a lot of leaning. Somewhere around 50°F we reach zero.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

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