Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 84

Thread: C180 Question: Monarch Fuel Caps.

  1. #41
    algonquin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Seldovia,Ak
    Posts
    839
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have the monarch caps on my 73' 185 and had problems with them when I first bought it. It had been sitting 8 yrs. on a grass field untouched.when I first flew it on 15 min trip I lost several gals of fuel and blue stains out of the cap. The O-rings were dried out and monarch robbed me for two rings for like $40.00. And found the vent on the right side was plugged 2-3' in , lots of mud dauber sin the area. Cleared it with a wire. Check vent alignment and never had another problem or water. If you get them to work for you it's a good system. I think Mike is on the right tract, it's not likely the cap. BTW, the flappers in the filler neck on mine are bent back because the fuel nozzles with the ring on the end hang up and are captured by them. You have to put a thin screwdriver in to get the nozzle out.

  2. #42
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    I did that today, Marty-- held it inverted for about 60 seconds and it didn't leak a drop.
    Thank you. Saved me taking mine off because of my curiosity.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    216
    Post Thanks / Like
    Not sure if this is related, but theyre talkin vent issues www.flyingmag.com/martha-lunken/where-did-gas-go

  4. #44
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    10,194
    Post Thanks / Like
    I would like to "thank", or "Like" some of your guys/gals posts... but that function seems broken right now... I sent SJ an email.... just know we are reading them and trying to show our appreciation...

  5. #45
    texmex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hanging Rock, Australia.
    Posts
    325
    Post Thanks / Like
    My caps are like yours Hotrod180. And the seals on the outboard are the same V profile.

    Interestingly the inboards have an O profile ring. Why is it different?

    I'm sorry, but one peice of the equation I should have mentioned, is when filling the first time on the outboard openings, I look across and see fuel pouring out the inboard caps, over the wing and onto the ground almost as quickly. Subsequently I taped up the inboards.

    I was told by the previous owner that each wing had a single tank with two openings. I best scour the IPC and learn about this aeroplane.

    I remember as a kid, the family sitting on the tarmac, as Dad took the 180 up for some ag-pilot type turns to get water out of the tanks. He had already drained a few buckets out. But that water came from a contaminated fuel drum.

    Thanks everyone for your input.

    Are the flush caps the same as the Bonanza's. And if so how do they get away with it?
    Likes CamLoc liked this post

  6. #46
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    My caps are like yours Hotrod180. And the seals on the outboard are the same V profile.

    Interestingly the inboards have an O profile ring. Why is it different?

    I'm sorry, but one peice of the equation I should have mentioned, is when filling the first time on the outboard openings, I look across and see fuel pouring out the inboard caps, over the wing and onto the ground almost as quickly. Subsequently I taped up the inboards.

    I was told by the previous owner that each wing had a single tank with two openings. I best scour the IPC and learn about this aeroplane.
    Your airplane has a seaplane kit with long range fuel tanks. The long range tanks have two fillers for convenience of fueling when on floats. They will hold a little bit more when filled at the outboard fillers.
    Try swapping the inboard caps with the outboard caps to determine if the "V" profile seal will also leak or not. Your "O" rings are likely just old and stiff. I don't know about Austrailia, but here near a big city I can get "buna-N "O" rings from a local bearing shop for a reasonable non-airplane price. They are identical to the airplane variety.
    N1PA

  7. #47
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,518
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    ... the seals on the outboard are the same V profile. Interestingly the inboards have an O profile ring. Why is it different? I'm sorry, but one peice of the equation I should have mentioned, is when filling the first time on the outboard openings, I look across and see fuel pouring out the inboard caps, over the wing and onto the ground almost as quickly. ...
    I wonder if someone in the past has switched out the seals on your inboard caps from the doube-v rings to something else?
    Hae you tried replacing them with the correct part from Monarch (not a standard o-ring)?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  8. #48
    Tom3holer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cape Cod
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have Monarch aux tanks in my 185 with Monarch caps and have had no issues.
    My caps are more like conventional caps not the screw on ones.
    Not sure when they changed.
    Name:  IMG_0138.jpg
Views: 500
Size:  54.2 KBName:  IMG_0139.jpg
Views: 491
Size:  53.3 KB

  9. #49
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    My caps are more like conventional caps not the screw on ones.
    Thanks for posting pic's. Didn't know they made them like that before.

  10. #50
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    10,341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Thanks for posting pic's. Didn't know they made them like that before.
    I believe those are Monarch replacement TANKS, correct, Tom?

    MTV

  11. #51
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    I believe those are Monarch replacement TANKS, correct, Tom?
    I always thought the fiberglass replacements for the main tanks such as my slant ones used the same plate and cap as I'm using with my bladders. Thinking that cap goes on the 15 gallon tank that can be installed outboard of the originals. Wish I stlll had my brochure from Bill Barton.

  12. #52
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    Found this on Hartwig's website. Must be the original install instructions. Notice plate fits bladder or plastic tank.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20170130_084037.png 
Views:	623 
Size:	172.6 KB 
ID:	30069

  13. #53
    Tom3holer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cape Cod
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like
    Those are on the outboard aux tanks.

  14. #54
    algonquin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Seldovia,Ak
    Posts
    839
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have flint internal tanks and the filler neck is under a sheet metal door right next to the wing tip. If the cover was removed the cap in the pic would fit.

  15. #55
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    I have flint internal tanks and the filler neck is under a sheet metal door right next to the wing tip. If the cover was removed the cap in the pic would fit.
    Except that the diameter might be a bit tight in the well and the Flints do not have a vented cap.
    N1PA

  16. #56
    18180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    96
    Post Thanks / Like
    The conventional style likely works better because there is no ratchet mechanism. Unless I very deliberately position the cap as I install it, it will ratchet before the o ring is properly seated. If not seated it leaks....alot. Replacing the $55...yes $55 o-rings often and keeping a bit of o-ring lube on them helps.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #57
    mountainmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    189
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    you changing back to the flush caps??(that have the AD and put WATER in your tanks?)

    or the raised ones??

    or adaptors, like atlee sells? http://www.fadodge.com/category/cess...ystems-cessna/
    Slight thread drift...

    Any first hand experience with guys running these FA Dodge adapters? Any preference on either the Shaw or Wisco set?

    I have a friend that still has the stock "killer caps" and these look like a great solution.

    Thanks!

  18. #58
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    Unless I very deliberately position the cap as I install it, it will ratchet before the o ring is properly seated. If not seated it leaks....alot. Replacing the $55...yes $55 o-rings often and keeping a bit of o-ring lube on them helps.
    Interesting, I have never had the cap cross threaded like that to where it ratchets prematurely. My caps are at least 26 years old and I've never replaced the rubber seal or put any kind of lubricant on.

  19. #59
    algonquin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Seldovia,Ak
    Posts
    839
    Post Thanks / Like
    Skywagons 8a right, sorry was referring to the two tabs not the screw in type on the reg monarch. Wouldn't go down in the recess.

  20. #60

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lakeland, Fl
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Interesting, I have never had the cap cross threaded like that to where it ratchets prematurely. My caps are at least 26 years old and I've never replaced the rubber seal or put any kind of lubricant on.
    Same here, just looked up my paperwork, bought the tanks and caps in 1988 and seals still look new.

  21. #61
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    just looked up my paperwork, bought the tanks and caps in 1988
    Wingwrench, I take it you have the Monarch tanks too??? If so, are they plastic or fiberglass? I keep thinking how nice it would be to have tanks made out of the same material that my red 5 gallon jugs are. I've carried pure biodiesel, E85 ethanol, pure gas, and diesel in them for years and they still look like there is lots of life left.

  22. #62

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lakeland, Fl
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Monarch, and they are fiberglass. I'm not convinced plastic is the way to go. When I bought these Bill claimed these were chemical and acid proof.

  23. #63
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Wingwrench, I take it you have the Monarch tanks too??? If so, are they plastic or fiberglass? I keep thinking how nice it would be to have tanks made out of the same material that my red 5 gallon jugs are. I've carried pure biodiesel, E85 ethanol, pure gas, and diesel in them for years and they still look like there is lots of life left.
    Marty,
    It is my understanding that after the owner of the company died, the tank production was terminated. The caps alone are being supplied by: http://www.hartwigfuelcell.com/monarchcaps.php
    N1PA

  24. #64

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lakeland, Fl
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Marty,
    It is my understanding that after the owner of the company died, the tank production was terminated.
    That was my understanding as well, hard to sell rubber bladders when you also sell a fiberglass replacement would be my guess.

  25. #65
    texmex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hanging Rock, Australia.
    Posts
    325
    Post Thanks / Like
    63 posts about the shitty fuel caps on my aeroplane.
    Mike I hate to say this, because you and Steve are like Hare Krishna leaders to me. Your've both taught me so much.

    But after a night on the sauce with the previous owner (who agrees wholeheartedly) I'm ditching those caps and sending them to PIPER J5.5

    In my defence I live, after antarctica, on the dryest continent on earth. The aeroplane is hangared. And I've had 17,000 hours of analysing the risk of flying.

    They're gone.

    But does anyone have any idea of the o-ring part numbers of the seals on the original caps? Sorry there is a whole Cessna part number for the cap that I don't have handy.

    And the IPC had Stainless Steel screws AN507-428R7 for the inner fuel cap screws. Is there a cad plated version of AN507-428R7?

    Cheers,
    Denis.

  26. #66
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks Wingwrench and Pete. Wingwrench, you don't happen to remember how the nipples for the outlet and vent are designed do you? Is it a metal tube molded into the fiberglass or like a tubeless truck rim where the threaded valve stem is squeezing the rim with two rubber washers(inner and outer) with a nut.

  27. #67
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingwrench View Post
    That was my understanding as well, hard to sell rubber bladders when you also sell a fiberglass replacement would be my guess.
    I haven't made this mod but as I understand the process, it involved removing the wing and the root rib in order to slide in the fiberglass tank. As a mechanic I would rather change a rubber bladder at ten hours per bladder.
    N1PA

  28. #68
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    As a mechanic I would rather change a rubber bladder at ten hours per bladder.
    As I remember, the big selling point was no more wrinkles that hold water. I don't have any wrinkles but some people must have.

  29. #69
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    9,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    As I remember, the big selling point was no more wrinkles that hold water. I don't have any wrinkles but some people must have.
    True, With the set which I recently installed it was rather easy to ensure that the wrinkle situation did not happen. The nipple at the quick drain was a bit long promoting wrinkles. Once it was trimmed, no problem.
    N1PA

  30. #70
    18180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    96
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Monarch plastic tanks are still available and STC'd for all but the early slant tanks. Inquired about this recently.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  31. #71

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lakeland, Fl
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Thanks Wingwrench and Pete. Wingwrench, you don't happen to remember how the nipples for the outlet and vent are designed do you? Is it a metal tube molded into the fiberglass or like a tubeless truck rim where the threaded valve stem is squeezing the rim with two rubber washers(inner and outer) with a nut.
    It's an aluminum bung glassed into the tank.

  32. #72

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lakeland, Fl
    Posts
    109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I haven't made this mod but as I understand the process, it involved removing the wing and the root rib in order to slide in the fiberglass tank. As a mechanic I would rather change a rubber bladder at ten hours per bladder.
    I had my airplane apart so it was fairly simple install.

  33. #73
    180Marty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Paullina, Ia
    Posts
    2,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Monarch plastic tanks are still available and STC'd for all but the early slant tanks. Inquired about this recently.
    Hartwig????? Was perusing their website and can't really find fiberglass tanks for sale although one topic was "Caps and Tanks". Thanks

  34. #74
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,518
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 18180 View Post
    The Monarch plastic tanks are still available and STC'd for all but the early slant tanks. ....
    It's my understanding that the Monarch replacements for early "slant tanks"were discontinued because of installation issues due to inconsistent dimensions on the early Cessna wings.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  35. #75

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    63 posts about the shitty fuel caps on my aeroplane.
    Mike I hate to say this, because you and Steve are like Hare Krishna leaders to me. Your've both taught me so much.

    But after a night on the sauce with the previous owner (who agrees wholeheartedly) I'm ditching those caps and sending them to PIPER J5.5

    In my defence I live, after antarctica, on the dryest continent on earth. The aeroplane is hangared. And I've had 17,000 hours of analysing the risk of flying.

    They're gone.

    But does anyone have any idea of the o-ring part numbers of the seals on the original caps? Sorry there is a whole Cessna part number for the cap that I don't have handy.

    And the IPC had Stainless Steel screws AN507-428R7 for the inner fuel cap screws. Is there a cad plated version of AN507-428R7?

    Cheers,
    Denis.
    Denis - the AN507-428R7 was a cad-plated steel screw. New number is MS24693S293. The AN507C428R7 is the stainless version - aka MS24693C293

  36. #76
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,518
    Post Thanks / Like
    There's a recent discussion thread on the BCP site about leaky Monarch caps.
    Looks like the mysterious problem has been pinpointed.
    Here's a clip:
    "he suggested I try "one more thing" and showed me an example of a cap that had the cut-out for the chain attachment punched to high in the throat of the assembly therefore not allowing the cap to seat flush and have gasket contact. That made sense to me but seemed like a stretch..... Well, just got home and sure as **** when I pulled the cap off and looked in the throat of the assembly I could clearly see where the cap had been hitting the cut-out for the chain attachment. I removed the chain and in about 30 seconds took a punch and flattened out the cut-out to be flush with the throat and sure as ****- the cap now fits tight and flush. I can now feel the gasket contacting the top."

    For the full discussion:
    https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/t...=unread#unread

    And if you want a set:
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...p-kit-for-C180
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
    Thanks 18180, Ken Kennedy thanked for this post
    Likes mike mcs repair, 18180, Ken Kennedy liked this post

  37. #77
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Glad that was found

    I never ever ever ever had problems with them and recommend them to all!
    Likes 180Marty, mike mcs repair liked this post

  38. #78
    18180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    96
    Post Thanks / Like
    Problem Solved.....Chain attach tab improperly located in filler neck. Cap thread hits tab before fully seated. Remove tab, problem solved. A previous post led me to this and sure enough. Hartwigs' continued insistence that this was an airplane problem is the most frustrating part. When I suggested the tabs might be an issue (after reading post about this find), they acknowledged that some times the tabs don't get punched just right. Their advice....grind the cap! Don't do this as it will not solve the problem. It is the treads that hit the tab.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Before.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	132.1 KB 
ID:	32116Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Tab.jpg 
Views:	61 
Size:	91.3 KB 
ID:	32117Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Thread.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	133.4 KB 
ID:	32118Click image for larger version. 

Name:	After.jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	61.1 KB 
ID:	32119
    Thanks mike mcs repair, 180Marty, Ken Kennedy thanked for this post

  39. #79
    hotrod180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    2,518
    Post Thanks / Like
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  40. #80
    texmex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hanging Rock, Australia.
    Posts
    325
    Post Thanks / Like
    Piper J5.5 - I sent you a PM there a few weeks ago but no response. If you still want those caps there yours. My friend travels to LA regularly and will post them from there as it's a long way from Australia.

    New Years Resolution - To read Mike's posts more thoroughly. It turns out that there are also vent issues. The other day with full fuel, looking across to the LHS the vent would occasionally blow off an atomized puff of fuel. Even after an hours of flight. The vent on this side sits right behind the wing strut and not out in the free stream air.

    I assume it needs to be in the free stream air more. But then again, Googling Cessna fuel vent issues I see McFarlane has vent modifications so maybe this is a common issue.

    Any stories of similar vent issues?

Similar Threads

  1. Question on Monarch aux tanks in 185
    By Tom3holer in forum Everything Else (formerly:My Other Plane Is A....)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-19-2016, 11:26 PM
  2. Fuel caps
    By Zk Boy in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-03-2011, 06:42 PM
  3. Gooseneck fuel caps.
    By marker60 in forum Member to Member
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-20-2006, 08:02 AM
  4. Fuel Caps on 150 HP PA-12
    By MikeJ in forum Modifications
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-29-2004, 12:19 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •