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C180 Question: Monarch Fuel Caps.

just looked up my paperwork, bought the tanks and caps in 1988
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Wingwrench, I take it you have the Monarch tanks too??? If so, are they plastic or fiberglass? I keep thinking how nice it would be to have tanks made out of the same material that my red 5 gallon jugs are. I've carried pure biodiesel, E85 ethanol, pure gas, and diesel in them for years and they still look like there is lots of life left.
 
Monarch, and they are fiberglass. I'm not convinced plastic is the way to go. When I bought these Bill claimed these were chemical and acid proof.
 
180Marty said:
Wingwrench, I take it you have the Monarch tanks too??? If so, are they plastic or fiberglass? I keep thinking how nice it would be to have tanks made out of the same material that my red 5 gallon jugs are. I've carried pure biodiesel, E85 ethanol, pure gas, and diesel in them for years and they still look like there is lots of life left.
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Marty,
It is my understanding that after the owner of the company died, the tank production was terminated. The caps alone are being supplied by: http://www.hartwigfuelcell.com/monarchcaps.php
 
63 posts about the shitty fuel caps on my aeroplane.
Mike I hate to say this, because you and Steve are like Hare Krishna leaders to me. Your've both taught me so much.

But after a night on the sauce with the previous owner (who agrees wholeheartedly) I'm ditching those caps and sending them to PIPER J5.5

In my defence I live, after antarctica, on the dryest continent on earth. The aeroplane is hangared. And I've had 17,000 hours of analysing the risk of flying.

They're gone.

But does anyone have any idea of the o-ring part numbers of the seals on the original caps? Sorry there is a whole Cessna part number for the cap that I don't have handy.

And the IPC had Stainless Steel screws AN507-428R7 for the inner fuel cap screws. Is there a cad plated version of AN507-428R7?

Cheers,
Denis.
 
Thanks Wingwrench and Pete. Wingwrench, you don't happen to remember how the nipples for the outlet and vent are designed do you? Is it a metal tube molded into the fiberglass or like a tubeless truck rim where the threaded valve stem is squeezing the rim with two rubber washers(inner and outer) with a nut.
 
Wingwrench said:
That was my understanding as well, hard to sell rubber bladders when you also sell a fiberglass replacement would be my guess.
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I haven't made this mod but as I understand the process, it involved removing the wing and the root rib in order to slide in the fiberglass tank. As a mechanic I would rather change a rubber bladder at ten hours per bladder.
 
As a mechanic I would rather change a rubber bladder at ten hours per bladder.
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As I remember, the big selling point was no more wrinkles that hold water. I don't have any wrinkles but some people must have.
 
180Marty said:
As I remember, the big selling point was no more wrinkles that hold water. I don't have any wrinkles but some people must have.
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True, With the set which I recently installed it was rather easy to ensure that the wrinkle situation did not happen. The nipple at the quick drain was a bit long promoting wrinkles. Once it was trimmed, no problem.
 
The Monarch plastic tanks are still available and STC'd for all but the early slant tanks. Inquired about this recently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
180Marty said:
Thanks Wingwrench and Pete. Wingwrench, you don't happen to remember how the nipples for the outlet and vent are designed do you? Is it a metal tube molded into the fiberglass or like a tubeless truck rim where the threaded valve stem is squeezing the rim with two rubber washers(inner and outer) with a nut.
Click to expand...

It's an aluminum bung glassed into the tank.
 
skywagon8a said:
I haven't made this mod but as I understand the process, it involved removing the wing and the root rib in order to slide in the fiberglass tank. As a mechanic I would rather change a rubber bladder at ten hours per bladder.
Click to expand...

I had my airplane apart so it was fairly simple install.
 
The Monarch plastic tanks are still available and STC'd for all but the early slant tanks. Inquired about this recently.
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Hartwig????? Was perusing their website and can't really find fiberglass tanks for sale although one topic was "Caps and Tanks". Thanks
 
18180 said:
The Monarch plastic tanks are still available and STC'd for all but the early slant tanks. ....
Click to expand...

It's my understanding that the Monarch replacements for early "slant tanks"were discontinued because of installation issues due to inconsistent dimensions on the early Cessna wings.
 
texmex said:
63 posts about the shitty fuel caps on my aeroplane.
Mike I hate to say this, because you and Steve are like Hare Krishna leaders to me. Your've both taught me so much.

But after a night on the sauce with the previous owner (who agrees wholeheartedly) I'm ditching those caps and sending them to PIPER J5.5

In my defence I live, after antarctica, on the dryest continent on earth. The aeroplane is hangared. And I've had 17,000 hours of analysing the risk of flying.

They're gone.

But does anyone have any idea of the o-ring part numbers of the seals on the original caps? Sorry there is a whole Cessna part number for the cap that I don't have handy.

And the IPC had Stainless Steel screws AN507-428R7 for the inner fuel cap screws. Is there a cad plated version of AN507-428R7?

Cheers,
Denis.
Click to expand...

Denis - the AN507-428R7 was a cad-plated steel screw. New number is MS24693S293. The AN507C428R7 is the stainless version - aka MS24693C293
 
There's a recent discussion thread on the BCP site about leaky Monarch caps.
Looks like the mysterious problem has been pinpointed.
Here's a clip:
"he suggested I try "one more thing" and showed me an example of a cap that had the cut-out for the chain attachment punched to high in the throat of the assembly therefore not allowing the cap to seat flush and have gasket contact. That made sense to me but seemed like a stretch..... Well, just got home and sure as **** when I pulled the cap off and looked in the throat of the assembly I could clearly see where the cap had been hitting the cut-out for the chain attachment. I removed the chain and in about 30 seconds took a punch and flattened out the cut-out to be flush with the throat and sure as ****- the cap now fits tight and flush. I can now feel the gasket contacting the top."

For the full discussion:
https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/topic?f=7&t=20643&view=unread#unread

And if you want a set:
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?52119-FS-Monarch-cap-kit-for-C180
 
Problem Solved.....Chain attach tab improperly located in filler neck. Cap thread hits tab before fully seated. Remove tab, problem solved. A previous post led me to this and sure enough. Hartwigs' continued insistence that this was an airplane problem is the most frustrating part. When I suggested the tabs might be an issue (after reading post about this find), they acknowledged that some times the tabs don't get punched just right. Their advice....grind the cap! Don't do this as it will not solve the problem. It is the treads that hit the tab.
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Piper J5.5 - I sent you a PM there a few weeks ago but no response. If you still want those caps there yours. My friend travels to LA regularly and will post them from there as it's a long way from Australia.

New Years Resolution - To read Mike's posts more thoroughly. It turns out that there are also vent issues. The other day with full fuel, looking across to the LHS the vent would occasionally blow off an atomized puff of fuel. Even after an hours of flight. The vent on this side sits right behind the wing strut and not out in the free stream air.

I assume it needs to be in the free stream air more. But then again, Googling Cessna fuel vent issues I see McFarlane has vent modifications so maybe this is a common issue.

Any stories of similar vent issues?
 
The maintenance manual has very specific distance for location of the vent tube relative to the lift strut.

If you are seeing fuel come out that vent under the wing you have a check valve issue. Fuel should not come out there. Maintenance Manual addresses the flapper style check valve orientation, etc.

I still love my Monarch caps. Never a problem with any I have installed and I get them on every old 180 I see.
 
Through all my troubleshooting of the cap issues I described earlier, I did experience fuel coming from the vent. I agree with the previous post that this is most likely due to improperly positioned vent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've had no response to the PM I sent Piper J5.5, so if anyone would like 4 Monarch caps as spare parts, for the cost of postage from LA, let me know. My friend can take can send them from LA late Dec.


I've been doing a bit of reading of the Cessna Service Bulletin re the vents. I've also been talking to some that knows C180's and he tells me he's never changed out the flapper valve or check valve. Also the McFarlane tech rep says they don't sell the valves and had no advise on them.

Has anyone changed them? Do they have parts or seals that wear? Anyone have some stories with the check valves. (shown as S2359-1 in the IPC)

I will check that the word 'hinge' is facing upwards, as per the SB, when I install the McFarlane vent tubes.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas.
Texmex.

 
I'll take the caps. I'm restoring a 56 that has 4.
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Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
I’ve had the monarchs a few years now and just lost about 35gal in 8.5hrs of flying.

20 gal in 4.2 hrs and then 15gal home in 4.3hrs

Went up North fishing and had a gas cans in the back to get home. Both caps on the right wing siphoning. I guess my seals are shot according to Butch...

After talking to him I’m kind of wishing I never switched. Never had issues with the old cessna caps in 40 years, if they were on you were good.

These monarchs according to Butch need more baby sitting than a toddler...

Not to thrilled that they just pooped out all of a sudden. Good one day and shot the next
 
firebird said:
I’ve had the monarchs a few years now and just lost about 35gal in 8.5hrs of flying.

20 gal in 4.2 hrs and then 15gal home in 4.3hrs

Went up North fishing and had a gas cans in the back to get home. Both caps on the right wing siphoning. I guess my seals are shot according to Butch...

After talking to him I’m kind of wishing I never switched. Never had issues with the old cessna caps in 40 years, if they were on you were good.

These monarchs according to Butch need more baby sitting than a toddler...

Not to thrilled that they just pooped out all of a sudden. Good one day and shot the next
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I tried to get Butch to tell me how many guys have called to troubleshoot this issue. My shiny new main caps always leaked until I bought the original gold version of the cap off eBay. The gold ones are fantastic and haven’t leaked a drop. Even with a dried out weather checked O-ring, they don’t leak a drop. My shiny new aux tank caps leaked like crazy too and after much back and forth, it was determined that they were manufactured wrong. The new replacement caps I got were definitely made differently. My caps were installed using the monarch vent guidance (not Cessna). During troubleshooting, I tried moving vent in increments, but they always leaked. I removed the chain, smashed the tab, yada yada. I filled up in McCall, flew 2.5 hours, got home and had blue wings and lost about 30 gallons total. I think what bothered me most was the attitude I got on the phone. No apology, no let’s figure this out together etc. Maybe they’re beat down from all the issues. I was willing to work with them.
 
Ya I got the same feeling. Butch blamed me (being afraid to screw the caps past a click) lol not the case, blamed Cessna (for the entire fuel/tank design), blamed my mechanic (not doing a proper o ring oil bath/rub it it routine at annual) bull poo, and sold me new O rings. I got looking harder at my caps when I got home and the left wing caps screw down tight to the wing, according to Butch that means a crushed worn out O ring, yet they were not leaking. And the right wings leaking caps, one sat up high and the other tipped. Which according to Butch is how they are supposed to sit (up high).

Anyway to adjust the tension on these caps so they screw down tighter before they “click out”?

ive got the silver caps, what’s the difference between them and the gold ones?
 
The gold caps are the original design as manufactured by the inventor and original STC holder Bill Barton. I’m not sure if you can set the tension. Call and ask and report back ��.
 
This is an original Bill Barton cap purchased in about 1990. I think it is machined aluminum and not stamped. Never leaked in 30 yrs, never changed the rubber seal or applied any lube.
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So Butch’s talks all to cover his butt on poor manufacturing or quality control?

I’m waiting for these ‘new’ O rings to arrive and I hope that fixes it because I don’t really remember any significant fuel lose like this before. Once and awhile I had some blue stains right on the flange like it was fuel on top of the flapper leaking out for a short period of time.

But I never had an EI Cgr with fuel flow and digital fuel senders until this spring....
 
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