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Another PA-12 rebuild-my Phoenix story

'What a long strange trip its been'

I had hoped 2564M would fly in July, I figured more like the beginning of the month but today is still July right. First flight went well, a few squawks but it went well. (Airspeed indicator? I don't need no stinking airspeed indicator). She needs a bit of aileron trim work but I'm happy so far, light on the controls, trim is where I think it should be, very responsive and all the parts moved the correct directions.

The airworthiness certificate burned up with the wreck in 2001 so the feds wanted to inspect it before reissuing the replacement A/C. This concerned me, tho I can't really blame them as the rebuild ended up having:
12 New STC's
8 reinstalled older STC's
2 Field Approvals
12 337's
3 old mods reinstalled and
4 minor alteration log book entries.

The feds came by the hangar on Friday and could not have been nicer, easier to deal with and anxious to see this bird fly. They pointed out a couple of items they were concerned about, all good things that were easy fixes and issued the A/C.

Five years, wow, where did that time go. Time now to sweep the hangar. Oh yea and a little more work on those first few squawks. Thanks everyone on this site that shared advice, ideas, reviews and input to help this project along, it wouldn't have been easy without you.

Doug

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I wouldn't have admitted to the ASI malfunction. I'd be claiming it cruises at 168, it IS a Super Cruiser after all.
 
Congratulations. Well done!! Now for the fun part, flying and enjoying it.

Pat yourself on the back, you deserve it.

Bill
 
For kicks and giggles I put a pair of 29" bush wheels on my old 12 today, standard pa12 gear. ground to the center point of nose cone: 64 3/4" inflated to 9 or 10 #. The new 12 with Atlee Dodge 3" extended gear and 850's measured 65". Interesting is all I have to say.
 
I was just reading other posts and the subject of "just up and disappeared-once his project got done" caught my eye so I thought I'd give an update on my baby before I put her to bed next week and move south for the winter to ski (way south-90 miles to Bozeman)

Her name is now 'Eclipse' as one of my many first memorable flights was to Idaho to watch the eclipse. I bought the last 12 on a Blue Moon so not hard guessing its name.

I have about 50 hours on it so far, I know that's just a long weekend for some of you but I do still attempt to get the other 12 in the air as well. I tired of a lazy oil temp/pressure gauge, couldn't get a good original one from Wagaero so bought an new electronic one. Replaced the inclinometer for the same reason. Other than that, and one bad spark plug she's running great. I have ordered and received flap gap seals and VG's that will go on next spring, as well as an engine heater and an Oregon aero front seat (I had to let the hemorrhaging bank account clot up a bit before I made these last purchases)..

I have been amazed how long it has taken me to get the trim and the feel of the plane just right, 50+ hours to be exact. It still doesn't fly exactly like my other 12, which is like putting on a nice old slipper, but then again I don't have 2000 hours in this one yet.

The floats are all finished, painted and ready to go on in the spring as well, after of course I find a spot around here to splash her.

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Great post! I just bought a pa12 that's ready to cover. First time for me and I have a question. Are there any Piper instructions for recovering or do you just use AC 43.13? I'll also be using the Stewart System.
 
Great post! I just bought a pa12 that's ready to cover. First time for me and I have a question. Are there any Piper instructions for recovering or do you just use AC 43.13?

you use piper original, and the STC info of the modern covering process you choose...
 
What Mike said, but i can't emphasis enough to find a 'coach' on your field to help you along, even if it means changing covering systems to correspond to your experts knowledge base. While the stits book is great, there are many little tips hidden in tribal knowledge that will save
you hours of work if you can unearth them. At the very least go to a covering seminar somewhere if you can
 
Great post! I just bought a pa12 that's ready to cover. First time for me and I have a question. Are there any Piper instructions for recovering or do you just use AC 43.13? I'll also be using the Stewart System.

Welcome to the party

Glenn
 
Great post! I just bought a pa12 that's ready to cover. First time for me and I have a question. Are there any Piper instructions for recovering or do you just use AC 43.13? I'll also be using the Stewart System.
Do you have an A&P or do you know one? Since this is a certified airplane you may be rendering it unairworthy if you do this without an A&P's supervision.
 
Great pictures! I'm covering a pa12 and this is my first. Is leading edge felt required, recommend or necessary? My leading edge is new metal, no dents.
 
Sorry for the late reply, still figuring out the site. Yes I'm a brand new A/P but I've built a Lancair 360 and I was an eight year avionics tech in the Navy. I'll still need an IA to sign off. This a major alteration due to the non original fabric.
 
Great pictures! I'm covering a pa12 and this is my first. Is leading edge felt required, recommend or necessary? My leading edge is new metal, no dents.

Leading edge felt is neither required or necessary, I'll let others discuss whether its recommended or not, I didn't use it. What I did tho was to start the bottom fabric on the top rear edge of the front spar, then wrapped it round the leading edge to the trailing edge that it lapped over. Then I started the top fabric on the bottom rear edge of the front spar and wrapped it over the top. I then taped over the spar like you have to anyway, this eliminated the need for a 4" leading edge tape, plus I think it looks better. Be sure the anti chafe tapes you use on the leading edge metal joints are nice and smooth and flat and it will look nice. Here's a really professional drawing of what I did.

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oops disregard the second photo of an old wall tent I have, I hit the wrong key and now can't delete it.
 

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Same way I usually do it, other than I like my top fabric on first. I've also layed an extra layer of heavy fabric on the leading edge, below both layers of fabric. Works great, but with new leading edges, you've got plenty of protection with the method above.
John
 
One more item of follow up. I put my flap seals and VG's on this week. In an earlier post I reported it was very difficult to remove the VG green contact paper template from my last freshly covered cub. I speculated that this had something to do with the wing still off gassing and thus reacting to the glue in the contact paper supplied by Micro Dynamics.

This time around, the wing had been finished for at least a year before applying the template. This time after installation the template peeled off just like it was supposed to. All worked fine and I'm sticking with my recommendation to wait awhile after a fresh wing covering before you put VG's on. This was using the Poly Fiber process.
 
Had a friend with same type issues. I talked to Polyfiber and the off gassing is the issue. Recommended putting it out in the sun to speed up the curing process.
 
I really enjoyed your pix. At one point you said"time to cover the fuselage". Next pic was fuselage all covered. Any pix of the procedure for covering the fuselage? I am about to cover a PA-12 and have been looking to see how folks make the most efficient use of fabric. I have covered a lot of fuselages, but no PA-12. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks , Larry
 
Hey Larry, I looked through my pictures and its almost as if the fuselage covered itself by magic because I don't have any more photos than what I posted. But here are a couple of thoughts on my process:

I think the smartest thing I did by accident was put the tail feathers on and rig up all the cables and trim before I covered the fuselage, thus ensuring everything fit right and was close enough to use a turn buckle to take up the slack to the right tension. This also allowed a double check to ensure the right cable went through the right fairlead to make the parts move the right direction. ( I learned that the hard way on my first 12 project.) This is also true for double checking the fuel system, trim system and flaps.

I covered the belly first so that the seams would overlap properly and that the trimmed part would be out of sight from the casual viewer. It was also easier to form the fabric around the metal belly i made for the last 3' of the bottom.

I sewed a seam down the spine of the fuselage fabric to make a 'semi-envelope' for the main part of the cover. I had access to commercial sewing machine to do this but my home machine would have worked fine, sthe Poly Fiber book has a great display of the proper sewn joint to use. I tacked half the fabric up to the fuselage with cloths pins and marked the spine with a pencil, then repeated to do the other side, pinned the 2 sides together and started sewing. It took a couple of tries to get the arc right at the saddle in front of the vertical tail, but not a big deal, and all of my old sewing holes where I ripped out an earlier seam were covered with tape and now invisible. This sewing process left lots of fabric to work with gluing to the bottom longeron. I then glued the sewed seam onto the spine longeron so it wouldn't wander around as I pulled the envelop tight. I also shrunk this sewed seam very first thing, once all other gluing was done but before shrinking the main body of the fuselage fabric to keep it straight on the spine longeron.

I also used old windows to hold the fabric in the window channel groove, I left quite a bit of fabric to spare so it glued in well, I remember having to force the window back in place, it definitely secured the fabric in the channel well. well enough I had to drill a 1" hole in the window to put a dowel in it to help me remove it, The excess fabric was trimmed off once the fuselage was in 'pink', but I reinstalled the used window to hold the fabric in until the final new windows were installed after the final paint dried.

Sorry I don't have much more for you, lots of more experienced hands on here maybe they can chime in to advise you as well.

Doug
 
It’s now been 1 year and 120 hours since I completed the rebuild of my 12 and I’d like to revisit or share what I like about it and what I may not do again, if I ever do this again. First things I really like:

  • The Dakota Cub 23 gallon tanks are wonderful, that little bit of extra fuel is really nice on those long, western back country trips.
  • The gross weight increase STC keeps me legal.
  • I installed a Niagara light weight oil cooler and an Sky Tec light weight starter, even with the original long engine mount and the Odyssey battery moved under the rear seat, with a 74/56 prop on it was a bit nose light. When I added an 82/42 borer prop the balance feels about right.
  • It almost goes without saying but I wouldn’t do a 12 rebuild without doing the PA-14 cathedral in the baggage, PA-18 double pulley trim, the overhead X brace, and floor mounted seatbelt attach points, although the seatbelt floor attach points are exactly where most passengers want to put their feet, if possible move them towards the center more.
  • I am also very happy with and glad I did the Steve’s Gascolator, Skytec starter (it really spins the engine) and the Niagara light weight oil cooler.
  • I like the top hinged sea plane door.
  • I really like the Garmin 796 but I wouldn’t necessarily flush mount it, it would have been fine mounted on the face of the panel verses being set in, this also would have allowed it to break the plane of the top of the dash this giving more room in the bottom part of the panel.
  • My Oregon aero front seat is fantastic.

What I probably wouldn’t do again:

  • Chose Ameri-King for my 406 ELT for obvious A.D. issues.
  • The bottom part of the Borer extended baggage, especially with the gross weight increase. This mod required changing the torque tube to a PA-18 style torque tube, rerouting the elevator cables including installing new pulley’s, removing the bell crank. All of this work for just 15 pounds of extra baggage and the rudder cables still pass through the lower baggage exposed. Some say they can sleep down there, good luck, plus you’d really have to beef up the floor to hold a live body compared to just the 15# it holds. Not doing the mod would also eliminate any need to put in the bottom dog leg brace.
  • While the original project came with Atlee Dodge 3” extended heavy duty 1 1/2 “ gear, they are heavy, that’s what I had so that’s what I used, I think I would have just gone with regular 3” gear with 1 ¼” gear. Plus 1 ¼” axels seem to have more universally available wheels.

Debates I had with myself that I still wish I would have installed (but it got down to money-which I still don’t have and adding weight-):

  • A second landing light in the other wing so I could wig wag them.
  • Wing tip strobes

One last thought, I’ve only done two 12’s now, one I flew for several years before it got tired and I refurbished it and this one which came as a project after a horrible wreck where only the paper work and the tail feathers survived. I didn’t keep as good of time records on the second cub but I’d say both took me right around 1400 hours. The flying cub refurbish took huge amounts of time to scrape, clean, blast old glue, tapes etc. The second one, kind of a consolidation of parts took about that same 400 hours trying to figure out how to make parts fit together right. The flying cub was definitely easier from a ‘how does this puzzle fit together’ standpoint.

what's next for this project, probably some ADS-B solution.

What's next for me? I don't know,,,yet.
 
Great recap. It's especially useful for me as I am planning my next recover around when I can also do the gross weight increase STC installation.
Questions:
1. Can the Dakota 23gal. Tanks be installed without having to remove fabric?
2. Do you believe!the pa-18 gear is worth the conversion? Weight savings? Speed loss?
3. What is your empty weight? I'm at 1,127 and trying to pick away the low hanging fruit to start. I need a goal weight.
4. Who's wingtip lights would you put in? Is there a good LED replacement for the stock?
Picture of your plane would be awesome!




Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Great recap. It's especially useful for me as I am planning my next recover around when I can also do the gross weight increase STC installation.
Questions:
1. Can the Dakota 23gal. Tanks be installed without having to remove fabric?
2. Do you believe!the pa-18 gear is worth the conversion? Weight savings? Speed loss?
3. What is your empty weight? I'm at 1,127 and trying to pick away the low hanging fruit to start. I need a goal weight.
4. Who's wingtip lights would you put in? Is there a good LED replacement for the stock?
Picture of your plane would be awesome!




Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
*The Dakota Tanks probably could be installed on a covered wing, but it would be a pain. I would think you would still have to remove the wing, pull fabric from the first 4' of wing then install. Unless you had freshly recovered wings why not just cover the whole wing.

*I think the 18 gear is worth the conversion if you are on floats or fly in substantially difficult landing terrain. 18 gear is heavier, HD 18 gear is another 5# heavier still. Speed loss maybe 3-5mph with 18 gear.

* E.W 1147

* i'd put in another landing light, piper style not wing tip lights, no idea what brand strobes since I didn't get that far.

Lots of photos on previous pages of this thread.
 
Suspicions confirmed. I'll be waiting until I can afford to recover the plane to do anymore big work.
That's a great looking bird!


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Doug, I cant thank you enough for this thread. I am honored to be the new owner of ‘Blue Moon’, and am super grateful for all the phone calls and texts. The extended baggage on this build makes m a little jealous, but other than that I think you did 69B perfectly. I’m looking forward to putting some of my own personal touches in with Dad, but mostly enjoying her and sharing the joy of flight with others in her. Can’t wait to meet you some day : )
 
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