Alaska Solo crosscountry route ideas

All,

Planning my solo cross country for sunday and figured it would be fun to hear what others have done or what ideas people for destinations. Flying a pa-18-150 with 36 gallons in the wings. planning with 78 knots per hour. I am looking to complete the 5 hours in one trip and im based out of birchwood. Note the distances provided are straight line and not actual routes for the mountain flying routes. For my dual crosscountry we hit Quartz Creek (cooper landing) and Soldotna.


Current route ideas

Birchwood to Mcgrath and Port Alsworth and return - 520 NM

Birchwood to Mcgrath and Healy and return - 527 NM

Birchwood to Cantwell and Gulkana and return - 364 NM

Birchwood to Homer and Port Alsworth and return - 371 NM

Birchwood to Homer and Talkeetna and return - 343 NM

The first 3 go through mountain ranges at different places, just because you can get through at one does not mean the other is open. Nenana has credit card fuel I would stop there rather than Healy. Homer to port Alsworth how are you getting across the inlet? Can you get fuel at Port Alsworth/Homer on sunday? Credit card fuel at Keni. If you do last one cross over inlet above Keni (narrowest point and do backside of sleeping lady to Skwenta than to Talkeetna. This time of year I wear bunny boots and dress warm, carry tent, sleeping bag and water with large bag of survival gear. Plan 1 hour for each fuel stop if you need to call out for fuel 1/2 to 45 min for credit card fuel. You may want to carry 15gal of fuel in the back I have cans if you need them.

The big issue is time!! You are looking at daylight of 5:47 and civil twilight 7:47 on the day you want to fly. So unless you have a lot of night flying under you belt I would not consider the first 4 Maybe 3 if you reverse course. The problem is you have not do not have a bail out in case time gets short. You should be planing to leave at first light, do you have a hanger?

Be safe!

DENNY

Sage words from Denny. For my solo cross country I went ANC - Gulkana - Talkeetna - ANC. That leg from Gulkana to Talkeetna was pretty awesome, as it really reinforced the kind of flying that I was hoping to do when I had my license. Looks like you have a lot of similarly fun ideas percolating. Take a few pictures and let us know how it goes!

If I were your instructor, the only one of those I'd sign you off for would be Birchwood-Cantwell-Gulkana-Birchwood.

The others are too long and/or offer too many potential issues for a student solo. IMHO

MTV

When I did it 25 years ago the popular route was Anchorage-Homer-Talkeetna (via transition through Lake Hood airspace)-Anchorage. Lots of alternates/intermediate options and familiar landmarks.

24 hour c/c fuel (avgas and jet a) available at homer. South ramp.
Awful lotta tidewater crossing inlet here. Recommend forelands (nikiski)

Yes. All very good advise. And please do not think anyone here is being overly cautious. This is the wrong time of year to be soloing through the Alaska Range. That is for the long days of summer. I quit counting on how many friends we've lost crossing the inlet and traversing that range in the winter. Informed decisions will help you fly another day.

We send people on cross countries that are on the road system. The reason is in the event of a breakdown, we can fix the issue quick. I will send guys on something more extreme later on. But, the route would be Birchwood, Biglake, Gulkana, Biglake, Birchwood. A few more legs but it gets the job done. Check to make sure the Gulkana pumps are running. There have been multiple pilots lost on the west side of the Big Su. A few have got lost between Gulkana and Talkeetna due to low lying fog. I would make it simple and safe. Depending on the guy,
Ill send him Birchwood, Palmer, Talkeetna (thru Big Lake VOR), get gas at Holly's and a burger. Hit the road to Keni. Over the top of Anchorage at 4,000 if you have a transponder and get down to Keni from the Gull Rock across from Beluga Point. There is not a lot out there though. Go Keni back to Birchwood alongside mountains. I have the guys get flight following wherever, even if they don't have a transponder they will have a blip. Good Luck.
Artic

Artic

Makes me appreciate how different it is up there. Down here you can draw a line on the chart almost anywhere and it might if anything be "interesting" rather than dangerous.

I agree with others that you should keep it shorter if possible. Down here, you would have to do some powerful convincing to get me to sign off something more than 150nm away for the xc solo.

sj

I'm also on board with not crossing the range, not only low wx in the passes but the wind can and does roar thru them. Might be CAVU but the turb. Will flat stop you from getting back thru once your out there.
Burchwood, Homer, Kenai, willow or ,Talkeena, then home. Stay near the coast out of the the Forelands until you get near the Sue look for the roads then turn inland. There aren't any metals given out for taking chances, give yourself some time to enjoy flying..

Team,

Excellent information. Always enjoy reading experiences and thoughts on what and why people plan. No hangar or transponder however the survival gear is packed. Thanks for the local knowledge and I will heed the advice of not flying the mountain passes (except cantwell area) with increasing the chance of having a successful crosscountry.

Half of the fun for me is looking at the maps and planning the routes whether they are for today or down the road. Being "stuck" to the road system is part of the reason I am finally choosing to fly. I have chosen to ignore what was off the road system for so long, being that I didn't have access is what gets me excited at looking at places that I've heard of but not seen.

I will plan two routes;

Birchwood - Homer - Talkeetna - Birchwood - This will allow me to fly west of the Chugach to Homer and I will cross the arm at Nikiski and fly west of sleeping lady towards Skwetna to Talkeetna.

Birchwood - Cantwell - Gulkana - Birchwood - This allows me to fly unit 13 and still be near the road the majority of the flight.

Thanks again

This time of year Skwenta is a bad idea unless you call for a runway condition report. Skwenta was number three destination when I did my cross country. I believe it is state owned... Since I maintain PAPM figured the maintenance contractor had my work ethic....NOT! There were two 207's on the apron. Looked like the apron had been cleared of snow. Runway had what looked like 207 tracks in the snow. Landed...shortest ever...felt like 25 feet. Turned out to be snow machine tracks. Snow was nearly 8" deep. Perhaps the 800's and a sixty pound sand bag against the rear bulkhead saved me from flipping?


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Crossing at Nikiski or the forelands is still about 12 miles of open water. Cook inlet is unforgiving this time of year considering low temps and wind on a wet body. Now factor in the time it takes for help to arrive and the fact that you will be a moving target IF you manage to exit the craft and IF the plane will float.

Yes I realize it is done every day, but this is just a cc solo, not an emergency. Isnt 150 nm the requirement? As stated before, very few hours of light available which will also limit search and rescue efforts. FYI, just because you may be high enough to glide to shore doesnt mean you will have good options once you get there.

Stack the deck in your favor, if you cross, do it at Potter marsh/Chickaloon, this time of year you can set down on the marsh or the flats in case of trouble. The over water distance is far shorter as well.

Another note: several years back there was another student pilot who was crossing north of the forelands (flying under "unusual circumstances") that didnt make it. A gearleg with a Bushwheel washed up on an island south of Kodiak about a year later...

the requirement is 5 hours of solo X/C flying with 1 solo flight of atleast 150 nm total distance with 3 points and one segment of at least 50 nm between t/o and ldg.

I understand risk management and the inherent risk with flying. Additionally I know this is "just" a X/C flight but at what point do you not fly or choose a different route due to risk? I know this is for each PIC to determine themselves but its interesting figuring out personal minimums of others and to gauge what mine are. Thanks again for all the info as it assists in my route planning and preparations.

vj88 said:

the requirement is 5 hours of solo X/C flying with 1 solo flight of atleast 150 nm total distance with 3 points and one segment of at least 50 nm between t/o and ldg.

I understand risk management and the inherent risk with flying. Additionally I know this is "just" a X/C flight but at what point do you not fly or choose a different route due to risk? I know this is for each PIC to determine themselves but its interesting figuring out personal minimums of others and to gauge what mine are. Thanks again for all the info as it assists in my route planning and preparations.

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"I understand risk management and the inherent risk with flying. Additionally I know this is "just" a X/C flight but at what point do you not fly or choose a different route due to risk?"

One could start with experience then consider all the great advise already given. If you succeed no one will consider you a hero only a fool if you don't. The Alaskan flying community just buried one of their own, it was painful four thousand miles away.

Student pilots aren't well qualified to assess flight risks. They're barely qualified to fly the plane. Ask your instructor for XC advice.

Crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Do your prerequisites and get signed off for the PPL checkride. Pass that and you'll be awarded a license to learn.

vj88, There are a lot of very experienced pilots on this forum who have been trying to be very diplomatic in giving you some very valuable advice on your proposed cross country flight. Frankly you are a student pilot who obviously has very little experience in flying yourself around in a region which can be very inhospitable in the best of times. You have not been listening. You should be having this discussion with your flight instructor since he or she is the one who is responsible in signing you off for the flight. None of us want to pick up the paper on Monday morning to read that a student pilot is missing while out on a cross country flight while trying to log all of his required hours in one day. It takes many years and experiences to be able to charge off into the wild blue yonder with the wisdom that the ancients above have been attempting to impart.

The reason there is requirements for "solo" flight, and "solo" Cross Country" is to have some time alone in the plane, with a more experienced person watching over you, (instructor), and clearing the cross country flights before you leave.

This does a couple of things. When you mess up royal, and you will, your adrenaline will pump hard and you will panic... then about ten seconds later you will realize that you just read something wrong and all is ok! Or, you will have to use all that knowledge and lost procedures to figure out how to get back on course... either way, by having a limit on where you go, the instructor prevents the issue of having a student well beyond their abilities in never never land. Having train tracks and roads below in places also 'stacks the deck' on giving you easy navigational location checks. As god as you may be, rivers are easily confused one for another, 200 miles away from home in mountains looking for a specific airfield can be bad news early in your flying. Remember, GPS and such do fail.

A friend of mine had an engine failure on his cross country. Put down in 3 feet of snow 100 yards from the road. Easy rescue. Plane was a mess. Think about that for a second... not what you will do, but the poor SAR folks that will need to come collect you in a bad situation. First they need to find you, the closer to roads, the easier.

This morning I took off in -10F, 01017g24. Wonder how cold that is? Well, the time it takes to remove a glove, unzip your three coats and reach inside to grab the phone, make a quick text to confirm landing, replace the phone and zip up, your hand is COLD! Yup, 2 minutes.

If you are incapacitated for any reason, all the survival gear in the world will not help.

Experience is a great teacher. After you spend a season or two flying, a great adventure over and around in the middle of the cold will be great. But learn to crawl, cautious destinations, and work forward.

Even Birchwood to Gulkana can offer multiple places of turn around weather. Don't be afraid of turning around and succeeding another day.

One last thought: the 5 hours is not required in one trip.

Every time you fly you should be learning something. Don't try to learn it all at once

MTV

Wish I had something like Google Earth or similar years ago to preview my CC flights pre-GPS. Always studied the charts and noted expected landmarks before launching but it takes time to put terrain in perspective if it's even visible. First time from Wasilla to Gulkana was VFR on top of a low fog layer with no VOR/NDB just compass and clock.

Try to "fly" your cross country route before you leave the ground by whatever means you have available. If things don't look right turn around for tomorrow.

GAP

VN88,

Sitting here admiring the 1 deg F about four feet from the toyo thinking I have something worthy to add. You tell me.

Right now all of us are morning the loss of what was one of the most liked/loved and capable pilots in alaska. Stuffed himself into the granite trying to get through the pass. Tears in my eyes and my hands are shaking trying to type this. He didn't have to go, He didn't need to go, and the weather was a no go.


So try this: get on the NTSB website, search alaska and the type of aircraft you are flying, and read every one of the reports. Once early in my flight training I did the same only for all of the USA. Most where CFIT but the next item was flipping over during the turn from upwind to downwind. Yes, flying milk stool. Anyway, this will give you an exact idea about all the things that can, and will, happen to you be it weather, terrain, mechanical, or human factors.


Enough of the doom and gloom. Don't worry to much about the crusty old timers on this forum but head most carefully their wisdom. Flying will be one of the most challenging experiences in your life and will continue to be until your last flight.


A couple more for you. Put your GPS away and use the sectional and compass. Keep your head outside and fly the plane. Have fun. Don't be afraid to get on the radio and ask for help. Have more fun!


I'll be in Tellkeetna off and on for the next couple weeks. PM me and have a cup of coffee or lunch when you come up.


Rocket

porcuypine said:

VN88,

Sitting here admiring the 1 deg F about four feet from the toyo thinking I have something worthy to add. You tell me.

Right now all of us are morning the loss of what was one of the most liked/loved and capable pilots in alaska. Stuffed himself into the granite trying to get through the pass. Tears in my eyes and my hands are shaking trying to type this. He didn't have to go, He didn't need to go, and the weather was a no go.


So try this: get on the NTSB website, search alaska and the type of aircraft you are flying, and read every one of the reports. Once early in my flight training I did the same only for all of the USA. Most where CFIT but the next item was flipping over during the turn from upwind to downwind. Yes, flying milk stool. Anyway, this will give you an exact idea about all the things that can, and will, happen to you be it weather, terrain, mechanical, or human factors.


Enough of the doom and gloom. Don't worry to much about the crusty old timers on this forum but head most carefully their wisdom. Flying will be one of the most challenging experiences in your life and will continue to be until your last flight.


A couple more for you. Put your GPS away and use the sectional and compass. Keep your head outside and fly the plane. Have fun. Don't be afraid to get on the radio and ask for help. Have more fun!


I'll be in Tellkeetna off and on for the next couple weeks. PM me and have a cup of coffee or lunch when you come up.


Rocket

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Great post! Thanks from a semi old, semi crusty pilot!

I don't feel old but looking back on some of those flying days that did not go well. Now those surely aged me considerably.

There is some really good advice here. I might add when flying cross country do a 360 once in awhile to see what to route looks like from the other direction in case you may have to turn around for one reason or other.

pak said:

There is some really good advice here. I might add when flying cross country do a 360 once in awhile to see what to route looks like from the other direction in case you may have to turn around for one reason or other.

Click to expand...

Maybe that's why Cessna installed rear view windows in some models?...Probably not but periodically checking to see if the back door's still open is good advice. Been there and had it close up. At least GPS offers a backtrack or breadcrumb trail to maybe help return.

GAP

Everybody hit it right on the head. Minimum 150nm, 3 legs. Try not to plan for much more than 200nm total for your first one. Not just for the risks that have been pointed out here. Your first solo XC, nobody to help, after 3 or 4 hours in the airplane (200nm/takeoffs/landings/fuel stops included) you will be TIRED. Plus doing three 200nm trips instead of one long one, you get three times the flight planning practice. Having to prepare for the trips (maps, fuel, wx) is just as valuable if not more so than sitting in the aircraft following a heading. Best of luck,

Z

If you do go to Skwentna call sue at the roadhouse (Google it). She can tell you how the runway is.
DENNY

Team,

X/C complete. The weather was clear and cold allowing me to fly to Homer and Talkeetna. Thanks again for the useful info.